Dead Foals in South Wales, now over 24 dumped!

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Vanah.Horses

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This is from today's Horse and Hound Magazine, 12.07.12.
Please can people share the word to anyone living in the areas these bodies are being dumped, to farmers, residents or dog walkers who may have seen vehicles which looked / acted suspiciously.

We do not have any agenda's and really hope people do not try to get this thread pulled, we will not reply to any attacks against us to discredit us. Please can everyone pull together, act in unity to find out who is responsible.

WE WANT TO GET ANSWERS & JUSTICE FOR THESE POOR DEAD INNOCENT FOALS.

Just a couple of corrections: VANAH is not a charity but a campaign group which was established after an increasingly high death rate caused by starvation of horses in the Bridgend borough, South Wales in 2010. Then followed the fly-grazing epidemic which we are also trying to fight to bring to an end.

www.facebook.com/vanah.horses
 
Yes..noticed your other thread and guessed it had been pulled. No surprise really when all it resulted in was a slagging match between what I am assuming are Adults. I'd no idea in the end what was going on but it certainly wasn't helping the dead horse /Innocent foals, situation. I'm normally a mild polite person but the original thread really hacked me off.

Perhaps if all concerned cooperated you might solve the problem?
 
TrasaM said:
Perhaps if all concerned cooperated you might solve the problem?
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We wish others would join forces and pool information, plus resources, but we have yet to meet anyone willing to try to do this. We will always keep our doors open for anyone or any group to help us to help the horses, that is ALL that we are for.

We know that this is not just Bridgend and the Vale, it is happening UK wide, but it is very frequent and on increasingly higher numbers in these boroughs of South Wales, almost to the point of being blatantly done to antagonise the council?
Bridgend has 'designated dumping areas' pre-arranged with the council (yes, really!), which in itself is totally absurd and not acceptable either.

People know who the culprits are, we need people to come forward with information to catch them. If you do not want to go directly to the council or police, we will take the information and pass it on anonymously on your behalf.

We protect those who are putting themselves at risk by providing information as we know how dangerous informing on certain individuals are. We will ONLY give out your personal details if you give your permission first.

If ANYONE can help, please contact the Vale council, or us.

We also ask all members of VANAH and Horse + Hound forum, to please send an email to your local MP's to support the campaign to ensure that ALL horses have micro-chips and passports, and also, that the council and authorities actually enforce this legislation to all members of the equine community, regardless if 1 or 1000 horses are owned by one person. There is no excuse to discriminate anyone with this law. Everyone is liable for their horse and to adhere to this regulation.
What is the point in having legal legislation when no-one enforces it? What is then the point in the Passport and Chip scheme at all?

The link to parliament to find your local MP is:
http://www.parliament.uk/about/contacting/mp/
 
Vanah.Horses said:
People know who the culprits are, we need people to come forward with information to catch them. If you do not want to go directly to the council or police, we will take the information and pass it on anonymously on your behalf.

We protect those who are putting themselves at risk by providing information as we know how dangerous informing on certain individuals are. We will ONLY give out your personal details if you give your permission first.
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You can report to the police anonymously too, I'd be far more likely to trust their protection than a campaign group, sorry.
 
Hatchet buried, 13 more were found by mine on wednesday morning. If you want more info pm me on facebook, the additional 13 have yet to be disclosed to the public.
 
Thank you for replying mountain view.
What you describe sounds truly awful. How on earth has this gone on for so long without someone doing something about it? There's DEFRA RSPCA police local authority yet it's still happening?
 
TrasaM said:
ere's DEFRA RSPCA police local authority yet it's still happening?
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There are a number of ongoing investigations being conducted, all as cautious as each other.

We are well known to protect people who provide us with information, that we do everything in our power to never disclose any identity or personal information, unless it is pre-arranged and we have authority.
We also know that more information is leaked by the authorities to pre-warn owners of horses of concern of intended 'surprise' visits, hence why there is also some reluctance from people to talk to the people who you are supposed to turn to for help.
We are just providing that branch for people to try to help protect them when giving out obviously very sensitive information. It is by providing this guarantee we hope more people will stand forward to talk about what they know and for us to forward the information, than for those people to continue to stay quiet.
Of course people can contact the Trading Standards of the Council's involved who are the people dealing with the dead foals investigations, and we hope that people ARE giving information to whoever can help, the council,police,crimestoppers,us - but it is ultimately the council issuing the appeals and should be the main point of contact. At least there is a choice for people, thats what matters.
 
I'd still urge anyone who has any information to tell it to the police, not a faceless campaign group who could be anyone.
 
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Without starting a debate, I did see on of your admin leaking a name, admittedly spelling it wrong and it's still there. Either way, atleast now i'm not working for him, or i'm not who I was implied to be ;) we'll leave it at that.
 
jools123 said:
this is a big warning to us all THERE ARE TOO MANY HORSES OUT THERE STOP BREEDING:mad:
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I wish..like the puppy mills as long as there's a profit in breeding.it will continue. Tighter laws on stallion owning maybe? Plus a body with the authority to enforce.
 
It is a sad fact that there are far too many horses and ponies about and that these foals have suffered such a fate, how awful for the finders of these carcasses.

Is it not time for the horse and animal charities to step up to the plate and offer a subsidised humane euthanasia and disposal service for ill, elderly and unwanted equines and come to that other pet animals? They themselves suggest that owners pts such animals and I am convinced that many more would be pts if it were not for the stigma and to some extent expence associated. If the charities were more open to such an approach owners would not feel so guilty..... I have no problem with any animal being kept into a happy, well looked after old age, but these are desperate times for some.

It is so sad that people are resorting to such barbaric and desperate practice as this.

Very sad indeed
 
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Jools, couldn't agree more with the first part of that statement!
Unfortunately the horses in original question are defiantly in no way breeding stock.
 
World of differance in people who put thought, time and money into breeding to those who just put any old coloured cob in a field with a bunch of substandad mares in the hope that something with a bit of feather will pop out :rolleyes:

Poor little foals.
 
Unless there is a market there is no sense in breeding at all. There will be a few folk who will catch the market just as it picks up (when ey?) and those few may make a killing ...good luck to them..... There will not be a market for youngstock untill there is a shortage thereof, if studs etc. keep breeding this will be a long time coming!

House prices are falling nationwide, pretty much, with so many concerns...mortgage, work, children..... who is worrying about equines, the charities?? They need to get a grip and do something positive.
 
So presumably the colt foals are killed as they can't be bred from & currently they are too expensive to fatten up - even if it is on someone elses land. The fillies are kept for further breeding, and as a rule these animals are all being bred for meat - such as the 100's exported on the hoof to the continent, by the Essex guy recently prosecuted.

It is a National disgrace that there is a huge, unregulated & brutal business breeding livestock for consumption which the authorities are turning a blind eye to. I suppose one consolation is that the indifferent end consumers of these animals will be eating lots of meat raised on a diet of ragwort.
 
siennamum said:
.......

It is a National disgrace that there is a huge, unregulated & brutal business breeding livestock for consumption which the authorities are turning a blind eye to. I suppose one consolation is that the indifferent end consumers of these animals will be eating lots of meat raised on a diet of ragwort.
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To break down your argument, a little, I'm not so sure that the business of breeding horses for meat is "Huge". I'll agree that as an industry, and specifically for equines, then if meat production is the end goal of the breeder, then it should be regulated, just as are cattle and sheep. Whether it's brutal or not, would also be open to question. If you consider that it's wrong that horses are eaten, then I fail to see the distinction between horses and cattle.

With regulation of this dubious industry, then record keeping would be a requirement and those owning the breeding stock would have terms and conditions laid down by Defra and the EU.

I accept that here in the UK we tend to view horses in a different light from the rest of the Continent. With the export bans now in place, for live animals, and the facility within passports to remove a horse from the human food chain, we as a nation, have done our equines no service at all. If there is no commercial meat outlet for youngsters, and there isn't, then there are those who will shoot and dump their unwanted foals and youngsters.

As I see it, the only certain lines of prosecution would be that the owners have failed to properly dispose of the carcasses. Whilst the practice of breeding foals, and then simply shooting and dumping them, seems to be both wasteful and pointless, it doesn't automatically carry the label of cruelty.

Alec.
 
We have issues in the SW with herds of equines being kept (not dumped) on industrial sites, being killed on the roads and costing the taxpayer a blooming fortune, not interested in subsidising someone elses lifestyle in this way.

Alec Swan said:
To break down your argument, a little, I'm not so sure that the business of breeding horses for meat is "Huge". I'll agree that as an industry, and specifically for equines, then if meat production is the end goal of the breeder, then it should be regulated, just as are cattle and sheep. Whether it's brutal or not, would also be open to question. If you consider that it's wrong that horses are eaten, then I fail to see the distinction between horses and cattle.

[I]I have no particular issue with horses being eaten, so long as they have some protection. Instead they are kept in horrendous conditions shipped indifferently from one end of the country to the other and if surplus to requirements slaughtered by being beaten round the head in some instances it seems. What the other foals died from isn't clear - aside from those that were shot, but if people slaughtered calves by beating them round the head, drowning them or similar it would be in the DM. This may not be a huge industry but there are thousands of equines, (Welsh Hill ponies, Dartmoor Hill Ponies, loose herds of 100's of horses in unsafe Industrial areas all over the UK) in it so it isn't small.[/I]

With regulation of this dubious industry, then record keeping would be a requirement and those owning the breeding stock would have terms and conditions laid down by Defra and the EU.

I accept that here in the UK we tend to view horses in a different light from the rest of the Continent. With the export bans now in place, for live animals, and the facility within passports to remove a horse from the human food chain, we as a nation, have done our equines no service at all. If there is no commercial meat outlet for youngsters, and there isn't, then there are those who will shoot and dump their unwanted foals and youngsters.

[I]There are outlets, they require rule breaking, but horses have been shipped to Ireland and the Continent for decades for meat, and until recently it was presumably nice and profitable if you had no overheads. I can't see a single argument in favour of resinstating live export for meat as an option.[/I]

As I see it, the only certain lines of prosecution would be that the owners have failed to properly dispose of the carcasses. Whilst the practice of breeding foals, and then simply shooting and dumping them, seems to be both wasteful and pointless, it doesn't automatically carry the label of cruelty.

Shooting them may be acceptable, as it is with bull calves, but it isn't clear how some have been killed which is worrying and others have apparently been beaten round the head - personally I think the whole scenario of the way these foals are raised kept and disposed of disgusting, suprised anyone wouldn't tbh

Alec.
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Is there any solid evidence that they were beaten - or do they have lesions/bruising that could have happened after death - ie when being loaded onto a wagon in order to be dumped?
I've had fallen stock be collected and dragged up the hunt's ramp and if they were unloaded the other side and a do-gooder laid eyes on them, I'm quite sure they might also summise about the fact my ewes had been "beaten" or "brutalised" just some of the emotive language that accompanies these stories.

Not saying they haven't, though. But don't we work on the premise of innocent until proven guilty, in this country?
 
Talking to someone the other day who breeds decent coloured cobs. He tells me one guy in S Wales ownes over 2500 and another over 1700. Until These people are hit in their pockets they wont do anything about keeping on breeding these unfortunate animals. Meanwhile this over breeding is killing the market for responsible breeders.
 
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siennamum,

I accept your points, but there's a world of difference between a meat producing industry, and those who are capitalising on land which is viewed as "Free", free that is, to keep horses on.

If the situation is as bad as everyone seems to think, then the simple answer is that the owners of these horses should be tracked down or failing that notices placed where the owner couldn't reasonably be expected to miss them, and then it should be clearly pointed out that if the animals aren't removed (within a specified period), then they will be herded together, and shot. End of the problem, I'd say, what do you think?

Alec.
 
They do all of the above in S Wales. One guy has massive Scania transporters, he rounds them up and takes the live ones on the day the 14 day period runs out. Leaves the corpses for the council to clear.

As horses are forever says this one guy alone has 2,500 gypsy cobs in South Wales. Many if not most roaming on public land including up and down the M$ and a range of A roads, it costs the taxpayer a fortune and is predominantly a meat business with those numbers involved.
 
Alec Swan said:
siennamum,

I accept your points, but there's a world of difference between a meat producing industry, and those who are capitalising on land which is viewed as "Free", free that is, to keep horses on.

If the situation is as bad as everyone seems to think, then the simple answer is that the owners of these horses should be tracked down or failing that notices placed where the owner couldn't reasonably be expected to miss them, and then it should be clearly pointed out that if the animals aren't removed (within a specified period), then they will be herded together, and shot.

Alec.
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Can to owner be amongst them at that time!
 
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