AmyMay Again
Well-Known Member
You're always so dispassionate in your responses. The only conclusion that anyone can form from reading your posts is that you see nothing wrong with what happened in the race.
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Dead horse at Aintree today
- Thread starter Sanversera
- Start date
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
I haven't seen the race yet so I'm making no comment from a personal perspective until I've watched it myself.
As an aside I do think many others could take a lesson from this approach.
I've spoken to my mum who said the horse looked wrong as soon as it pulled up but not before. However as she's in her 70s her eyes are not the best!
All I want to say, before I've watched the race, is that I do not think we should be berating the jockey. ALL of us have made an error of judgement with a horse, and probably few of us have been 'in the heat of the monent' to the degree a jockey is a after the last fence in the lead
As the owner of a large livery yard I see errors of judgement every day. Luckily most don't end in the death of a horse, and we can't confidently say that jockey error caused the death of this horse either.
I find it saddening how quick everyone is to judge and apportion blame from a holier than thou perspective, Social Media has a lot to answer for.
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As an aside I do think many others could take a lesson from this approach.
I've spoken to my mum who said the horse looked wrong as soon as it pulled up but not before. However as she's in her 70s her eyes are not the best!
All I want to say, before I've watched the race, is that I do not think we should be berating the jockey. ALL of us have made an error of judgement with a horse, and probably few of us have been 'in the heat of the monent' to the degree a jockey is a after the last fence in the lead
As the owner of a large livery yard I see errors of judgement every day. Luckily most don't end in the death of a horse, and we can't confidently say that jockey error caused the death of this horse either.
I find it saddening how quick everyone is to judge and apportion blame from a holier than thou perspective, Social Media has a lot to answer for.
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tristars
Well-Known Member
I wonder what the vets who were there will think about the state of the horse after the incident as it carried on after, and what they will say when asked for an opinion by any inquiry if it should have been pulled up, or if it was sound to carry on to the finish
EventingMum
Well-Known Member
This is awful and will only lend weight in Zach Polanski's call to ban racing. He also wants to remove equestrian sport from the Olympics and possibly ban all sport involving animals.
Tiddlypom
Carries on creakily
So someone who has not even watched the race is happy to condemn those who think that the jockey should have pulled the horse up rather than whip it to the line as being ‘holier than thou’.
Yeah, right
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Funnily enough if I feel that a horse I’m riding is wrong I pull up and dismount, don’t you?
Yeah, right
.Funnily enough if I feel that a horse I’m riding is wrong I pull up and dismount, don’t you?
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
All the stories today stem from a 2018 tweet by Zack criticising the national. It’s just trying to shift attention from what he’s actually focused on like rent controls, water renationalisation, taxing extreme wealth and green energy. Those policies were attacked as lunacy but are very popular so they are just dragging up anything they hope scares people off the Greens. JC all over again…
Green Party policy is currently to ban whips not to ban all racing.
Green Party policy is currently to ban whips not to ban all racing.
bonny
Well-Known Member
No serious politician would propose to ban racing. Imagine the cost to the economy as well as the thought of the pr result of thousands of dead horses and lost jobs. It’s not going to happen
SaddlePsych'D
Well-Known Member
Also given the FEI's total incompetence (wilfully or otherwise) on horse welfare in international sport, if it goes out of the Olympics then good.
At the very least he could have stopped pushing the horse on?
At the very least he could have stopped pushing the horse on?
Clodagh
Rage, rage, against the dying of the light.
I am glad to see you write that. It’s impossible for anything to be said nowadays without a bit of far right propaganda. Sadly Reform and the like are very well financed by groups very expert in this drip feed information.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
Yes I am!So someone who has not even watched the race is happy to condemn those who think that the jockey should have pulled the horse up rather than whip it to the line as being ‘holier than thou’.
Yeah, right
Funnily enough if I feel that a horse I’m riding is wrong I pull up and dismount, don’t you?
I've seen a clip on the evening news and the horse was by no means in any kind of obvious physical distress on the clip shown of the run up to the line.
As I've said before I want to watch the race before I comment fully.
The jockey made a split second decision in the heat of the moment, he has said he thought there was nothing amiss with the horse, so everyone is stating the jockey is a liar??
A jockey's job is to get the horse safely to the line in as high a place as it can achieve.
If your son/daughter was a surgeon and made an error of judgement that culminated in the death of a patient would you feel it was acceptable for the general public to berate them on Social Media?
(please note I used the word 'culminated' rather than 'resulted' as we have no indication whether the end result would have been any different if the horse was pulled up immediately after the fence, I suspect not but we will probably never know).
meleeka
Well-Known Member
Does any of this actually matter? just because you don't think the horse looked like he was in physical distress, you can't surely think that he wasn't? adrenaline would have made it easier on him but Im sure he knew something was very wrong.
Clodagh
Rage, rage, against the dying of the light.
I’m not sure that anyone thinks the outcome would have been different, but you ARE defending the jockey without watching the race.
I accept that unlikely as it is he possibly he had no idea he was riding a crippled horse but even if absolutely innocent you have to agree the visual is appalling.
lannerch
Well-Known Member
Looks very wrong to me all the way to the finish line , surely the jockey could have felt the weird hind leg action
It’s a sad day for racing
It’s a sad day for racing
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equinerebel
Well-Known Member
I really, really struggle to understand how an experienced rider wouldn’t feel immediately that this was a serious injury:
Any rider had to know the horse had taken a very hard stumble, so to then use a whip on the horse is, imo, inexcusable.
Any rider had to know the horse had taken a very hard stumble, so to then use a whip on the horse is, imo, inexcusable.
Sanversera
Well-Known Member
And would that be a bad thing?
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't say he gets off him that quickly on pulling up
To give him 3 slaps with the whip on the run in, i agree with Equine Rebel, is indefensible
To give him 3 slaps with the whip on the run in, i agree with Equine Rebel, is indefensible
Beausmate
Well-Known Member
Having watched that clip, I'd say the horse looked off before he came to the last. Have a look from about where they're passing the 'Randox' boards and watch his near-hind.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
Horse wise I have no idea how long an event course is nowadays, but horses used to steeplechase then go XC over huge technical tracks. They come back tired but if they were exhausted to the point they were wobbling they would be pulled up normally by the rider but by stewards if not.
So if thats the norm for racehorses, then either they arent capable of doing this for some reason, they have too much weight on their back to do this, or the jumps are too big and taking too much out of them. None of which should be true when you look at the event horses. My super fit working dog runs between 1.5miles and 2.5miles, at a gallop over rough ground for fun, then carries on walking, still going at a fair speed for another 5miles. I appreciate its a deifferent scenario, but if racing is causing horses to be in that sort of state, then we damn well shouldnt be doing it.
But its not is it? As well they know. Absolute liars all of them!
poiuytrewq
Well-Known Member
I worked in racing for many years. I loved it. I had no real Interest in racing when I started but needed some extra money for my own horse and my livery yard owners daughter was full time at a racing yard so talked me into it. I was soon full time and it was brilliant.
However…
I cannot condone today. They said a jockey can’t tell when a horse has gone wrong til it’s pulled up. No, a child could have told that had gone wrong. I do believe he may not have been able to pull it up, but no effort was made to do so.
They say they are treated like kings and yes, maybe they are, not sure they understand that ££ spent is the high life though. They get everything but, my horses are surely happier. They don’t get every single treatment and as regular physio etc but they get turned out with friends as much as possible and more of a natural horsey life.
It’s tough because I have so many friends in the industry and I know lots of jockeys, I know how much a win at Aintree means. I know that horse was going to be pts anyway, he was running on adrenaline. Nothing else. That’s why he got over the finish line. As an owner I’d have to forgo that win and money.
It’s very uncomfortable. I stopped about 2 years ago, logistical reasons not anything else at the time.
I prefer the livery yard I now help at a bit.
A lovely horse I used to look after Is in the GN tomorrow and I’ve gone from being quite excited to feeling a bit sick for him.
However…
I cannot condone today. They said a jockey can’t tell when a horse has gone wrong til it’s pulled up. No, a child could have told that had gone wrong. I do believe he may not have been able to pull it up, but no effort was made to do so.
They say they are treated like kings and yes, maybe they are, not sure they understand that ££ spent is the high life though. They get everything but, my horses are surely happier. They don’t get every single treatment and as regular physio etc but they get turned out with friends as much as possible and more of a natural horsey life.
It’s tough because I have so many friends in the industry and I know lots of jockeys, I know how much a win at Aintree means. I know that horse was going to be pts anyway, he was running on adrenaline. Nothing else. That’s why he got over the finish line. As an owner I’d have to forgo that win and money.
It’s very uncomfortable. I stopped about 2 years ago, logistical reasons not anything else at the time.
I prefer the livery yard I now help at a bit.
A lovely horse I used to look after Is in the GN tomorrow and I’ve gone from being quite excited to feeling a bit sick for him.
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
This happens in jump racing and 99% of the time to no I'll effect.
The rider isn't looking behind the saddle and only feels the loss of momentum.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Have seen another angle going into the last and possibly something has already "gone" which might explain why his back end almost completely failed to take off
Poor horse was almost too honest and brave
minesadouble
Well-Known Member
I've watched the video shown on this thread and from the clip there is little difference between the action of the winning horse and that chasing it, the second didn't even really look to be closing the gap.
When I read the comments saying the jockey would have known I was expecting a real difference in action.
I'm not for one minute downplaying what a tragedy this was but I don't think we should be laying so much blame on the Jockey.
When I read the comments saying the jockey would have known I was expecting a real difference in action.
I'm not for one minute downplaying what a tragedy this was but I don't think we should be laying so much blame on the Jockey.
I'm Dun
Well-Known Member
If it was true he wouldnt be wrong in his beliefs given what we see over and over.
equinerebel
Well-Known Member
Oh, that makes it okay then.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether an experienced rider should be able to feel if a horse has broken its back below them or not, but I remain convinced that no horse should be put in that situation to make humans money.
Yet another day of horse sports being problematic.
Burnttoast
Well-Known Member
Maybe your average racing person should consider that their continued support for the sport enables scenes like this, and the one at Fakenham the other day, and a multitude of others where excuses and promises to do better were made.
Sanversera
Well-Known Member
In fifty or hundred years time our decendants will look at horse sport as akin to bear baiting.
Janique
Well-Known Member
People beliving than Paul Townend a very experience jockey didn't feel the horse wasn't right are naive, to say the slightest...
Of course, he knew the horses was injuried, he just wanted to win...
Everyone with a bit of common sens can see that, the trainer, the owner, the steward, they all know...
They aren't stupid but they are so used to racing and horses to be used like disposal tools that they simply shut their eyes....
Let's hope than in the National, not too many die.....
So fed up with racing people saying ' That's so sad... It's not sad, it's possible to avoid this, just by putting the horse first, something that will never ever happen....
Of course, he knew the horses was injuried, he just wanted to win...
Everyone with a bit of common sens can see that, the trainer, the owner, the steward, they all know...
They aren't stupid but they are so used to racing and horses to be used like disposal tools that they simply shut their eyes....
Let's hope than in the National, not too many die.....
So fed up with racing people saying ' That's so sad... It's not sad, it's possible to avoid this, just by putting the horse first, something that will never ever happen....
jhoward
Well-Known Member
I actually think he looked wrong before the last fence. Watching his back legs sever times.
Who knows it could of been a problem already there that broke the horse on the day.
Should the jockey be banned no I don't think so.
Should the sport be banned no I don't think so.
Whipping. For all of those saying whipping the jockeys are allowed to make contact a very minimal amount of times with a shock absorbing specially designed whip.
Can any one imagine the huge impact it would have if equine sports stopped?
Further more the UK is one of the strictest counties in the world, regarding equine welfare go abroad and see how horses are treated. Ours honestly have the better lifes.
Who knows it could of been a problem already there that broke the horse on the day.
Should the jockey be banned no I don't think so.
Should the sport be banned no I don't think so.
Whipping. For all of those saying whipping the jockeys are allowed to make contact a very minimal amount of times with a shock absorbing specially designed whip.
Can any one imagine the huge impact it would have if equine sports stopped?
Further more the UK is one of the strictest counties in the world, regarding equine welfare go abroad and see how horses are treated. Ours honestly have the better lifes.
palo1
Well-Known Member
I'm not especially interested in racing any more but I really, truly think you are wrong. Gold Dancer landed very, very badly and in a way that the vast majority of professional and amateur riders would recognize as being likely to result in severe injury. If a jockey in any discipline cannot control their emotions sufficiently to protect the horse,they should not be being paid to ride. This wasn't just an error of judgement I think but an irresponsible gamble, on which the horse's life was at stake. The horse lost. Racing needs to think and act to protect horses better. There is no sport without them and they already suffer way more than they should.
bonny
Well-Known Member
Would it have made much difference to the horse if he had been pts 10 seconds earlier ?