Dead to the Leg Again

[Flibble]

I need help but first I will answer :-

Yes I am now having weekly lessons
Yes I have had back checked
Yes I have had teeth done

OK so I have made my horse dead to the leg I put my hands up and accept that.

I have reduced his hard feed as I have had a few issues with ballistic behaviour and realised he was getting far too much energy. While I was in the terrified of being thrown off zone my position and careful riding went to pot as I just really concentrated on not being dead.

His weight is being maintained he is back to the lovely gent but does not really go forward off my leg

So what would you guys recommend to getting him more responsive to my leg ? A flick with the dressage whip is ignored too. He is not evil he is a nice bloke he just doesnt understand any need to go any faster.

Hacking out is not a solution short term as I dont have a safe partner to hack him out with.

Its not all on his side I have to work on my position and keeping a still leg so that he can actually recognise a request to move for ward more. Transitions up and down are fine its maintaining the pace and asking for more that doesnt work.

The deader he feels the more Miss Windmill flappy cr@p legs happens and I hate it.

Please be constructive with your replies.

 

[bex1984]

Teach him voice commands. Legs OFF! It's a vicious circle if they stop listening to your leg, you use more leg, they get dead-er!

I warm up with no stirrups - it's harder to flap your legs around and keep your balance so not having stirrups encourages me to keep my legs still (obviously this might not be safe on a nutty horse!). I give clear voice commands, and follow them up with a firm smack with the whip if they are ignored. I do this for transitions within a pace as well as up/down a pace.

this has worked really well for me, as I'm not relying on my legs I am using them less, so pony responds more to them.

 

[carthorse]

We find these spurs the best
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPRENGER-BALKENHOL...=item518bef0cfa
for getting a horse to move off the leg. Also the exerecise of taking the leg away from the sides completely[ like off the saddle] but make sure you never pull on the reins when asking to move forward or you will be confusing him.

 

[Flibble]

That makes sense we'll have a bash and hope I dont post
an "I cant ride with stirrups any more" post.

 

[Flibble]

QR no I cant ride with spurs I am strongly of the opinion that a woman with busy legs like windmills shouldnt put spurs on.

They are for people who have perfect position.

 

[bex1984]

Flibble, I think hardly anybody, least of all me, has a perfect position. I do however ride with short, blunt spurs. I was against it for ages but it is so much better than having to kick kick kick (which basically stops you from sitting in a nice elegant position anyway!). I think the danger is if you grip on with your legs if things get a bit sticky...IMHO if you are OK sans-stirrups, you are probably OK with a blunt pair of spurs. They make a world of difference to my pony, who is much happier ridden with them. I taught him voice commands first tho, so I wouldn't have to over-use the spurs and end up with him dead to those too

 

[WandaMare]

Could you ask someone else to get on him and see how he reacts to them? I have similar problems to you and asked a pro rider to get on this morning to see what she thinks and guess what...horse trots round actively and responds to everything she asks, with no fuss at all. I think my mare just has me sussed as a soft touch and amuses herself evading my wishes and seeing what she can get away with. The pro didn't wear spurs and said she didn't even have to use much leg or whip, whereas I finish a session feeling like I have been at the gym for an hour.

At least now I know what she can do, I can work towards getting some more respect and see how that goes....just wondering if doing something similar might help you. Its so frustrating, this rider made my horse look like a breeze to ride...couldn't see what my problem was.....grrr they do like to make fools of us sometimes

 

[posie_honey]

my mare didn't understand leg when i got her - she was a perfect buckle of the rein hunter - as in really didn't see the point of a rider - they should shut up and let her get on with it

i've got her (90%) springing off the leg now... it's come down to transitions, transitions, transitions i'm afraid - i never do a whole circle without changing something - pace, speed, direction, flexion - and the old 'ask, tell, demand' mentality - squeeze, then kick, then i unleash hell!!

(thelwell boot, growling at her and schooling whip!)
hope that helps

 

[posie_honey]

ooh another thought - initially i was same as you - making matters worse by nagging - took an instructor to make me realise i was putting leg on but not releasing - ie instead of squeeze being pressure on then off i kept my legs on her - now i do a definite "tap" (for want of a better word) against her leg... does that makes sense?

 

[HannahHDEventing]

I have had a similar problem with one of my horses, he was terrible and even with sharp spurs on, it made no difference. So, I stopped schooling him for a while, took him out with the bloodhounds (or anything "fun"), then returned to the school with no spurs and two schooling whips. When I go to put my leg on and get no responce, he gets a tap with both whips, this makes him shoot forwards. I then pat him, return to walk and repeat the process. Some schooling session now involve me just getting him forwards and off my leg, and I don't worry about his head or anything else. I also lunge him and therefore use my voice riding, just as I do on the lunge, so he gets a TRRRROOOTTTTTTTTT ONNNN.
Keep positive, you will get through this. Good luck!

 

[stencilface]

I know that some people instead of giving a flick with the flip, will, after asking with the leg first, give one good crack with the whip - with upside down hand if that makes sense?

The horse obviously then dashes forwards, which should be allowed, as that what you've asked them to do. Then repeat if the horse doesn't listen the next time. I have never done this myself, but have heard it only takes one or two times before the horse responds to the leg.

Ideally though, I would try and hack out - I can fully understand how horses become dead to the leg if all the do is go round in circles. What does he do if you hack out? Can you get someone to walk out with you?

 

[Broodle]

QR My horse can be lazy in the school at times and my instructor has told me that as soon as I feel him backing off the leg to get him thinking forwards by cantering round the school - going down the long sides in 2 point seat with a nice forwards canter, and collecting up for the corners. Not sure if this will help you, but might be worth a try?

 

[Flibble]

Hacking out is an issue and I wont do again until I am 101% confident. Wont bore you with details but :-

Dual carriageway 90mph cars
Quiet Lane - Gypsies wit trotters

Can box to a friends but last few weeks been to icy and she has this damned idea that cantering in the fields will be good for me but it wont until I can start to feel safe again after the Christmas buck off.

So I am on the road to perfection in the school and then mosey on out into the real world when I am not sh@tting bricks.

 

[Flibble]

Thanks wandamare. I got someone else to ride him and he looked stonkingly good but...
She really booted him when he ignored her leg and held him up together quite strongly. She probably has a knack I dont because when I thought I copied her he switched off completely.

If I can just get me to improve there is a very special horse waiting to come out who is owned by quite a rubbish muppet!!

 

[Sarah1]

Yep, agree with this - forget about your hands, give the reins a little and kick your horse forwards for a good few laps. Doesn't need to look pretty you just need to send your horse forwards. Works wonders for my lad and FWIW we only get the bucking etc when he is dropping behind my leg so that's a pretty good indication!

 

[Cash]

Definitely agree with what several people have said above- squeeze, then kick, then hard smack. Did wonders for my old horse (me 5'3, him 16.3 ISH who could ignore me very easily!) but once I was happy with my lower leg stability i used spurs for flatwork, as he did sometimes 'forget' that he was meant to go off a squeeze, so i found myself doing squeeze, kick, smack a bit too often.

Spurs made it all easier and a bit more refined, but if you don't feel happy about using them due to your flappiness, then don't.

 

[BBs]

Just a question, now neddie has been a bit naughty with explosions... feed cut and physically hes good.
You however said your position has gone to pot.

Are you riding defensively? ie are you riding with your knee/thigh tight against the saddle?

If you ride like this you will be kicking but telling him to WOW slow down with your thigh/knee.

I have a horse who if ridden incorrectly wont go forward for love nor money. If ridden correctly he is forward off the leg. He only drops behind the leg if i go to grip with my knee/thigh. To him a slight squeeze with my knee is indication to either slow down or collect/halfhalt.

When I know Im not clinging on but he is still being a bit lazy then I will get after him. I find taking my legs away from the sides of the saddle for 3-5 seconds then a short sharp kick allowing with the hands and allowing him to get a bit of a shock and going forwards. Pat and repeat exercise. This way when he drops behind your leg aids and you go to lift your legs away he soon learn whats coming next and will go forward.
If he's still being lazy wear a pair of short spurs or back up with a short sharp whack with the whip. If he is likely to buck hold onto the saddle, dont tell him off for having a reaction. A buck at least is something! as long as he goes forward.

I do wear spurs on my horse but rarely have to use them now

and tbh theyre really only worn for more advanced movements

 

[stencilface]

[ QUOTE ]
Hacking out is an issue and I wont do again until I am 101% confident. Wont bore you with details but :-

Dual carriageway 90mph cars
Quiet Lane - Gypsies wit trotters

Can box to a friends but last few weeks been to icy and she has this damned idea that cantering in the fields will be good for me but it wont until I can start to feel safe again after the Christmas buck off.

So I am on the road to perfection in the school and then mosey on out into the real world when I am not sh@tting bricks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Doesn't sound ideal does it

 

[royal]

[ QUOTE ]
We find these spurs the best
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPRENGER-BALKENHOL...=item518bef0cfa
for getting a horse to move off the leg. Also the exerecise of taking the leg away from the sides completely[ like off the saddle] but make sure you never pull on the reins when asking to move forward or you will be confusing him.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've got similar probs with my horse (have posted before so won't go into it again here), I have used spurs, but the standard 15-20mm ones don't have much effect....the ones you have linked have rowels? i've never used rowel spurs before - do you have to use them any differently? Why would they be better for a horse that is slow off the leg?

Thanks

 

[Flibble]

God you people are so helpful and have really got me focussed.

BBs you have really hit the nail on the head well nearly.

God am I ever riding defensively.

So this pm I went down to the yard armed with all your suggestions.

I wont bore you with all the stuff suffice it to say I went into the arena with two dressage whips prepared to try and get some response without being horrible after all its not his fault we arent communicating properly and what an eye opener.

Several things happened. My second whip had a flappy end like a jumping whip so could make a good noise against my boot.

So there I was busy looking at my legs in the mirror and doing some major waggling in the air as I didnt want to give a good smack if I was the fool and I was!!!!!

In my last lesson a throw away comment was when you use your leg your shoulders rock. Oh my god my poor horse what have I been doing.

In my desire to get him going more forward and stay on I am squeezing with my leg and sitting back heavily so my hands are forward my legs are on but my bum is saying slow down........... Eaargh!!

Anyway I apologised to him and will do better next time and he was more forward and he still loves me!!

 

[Weezy]

As BBs said:

I find taking my legs away from the sides of the saddle for 3-5 seconds then a short sharp kick allowing with the hands and allowing him to get a bit of a shock and going forwards. Pat and repeat exercise. This way when he drops behind your leg aids and you go to lift your legs away he soon learn whats coming next and will go forward.

Niggling gets you nowhere. You need to take legs off and give a good bang, ONCE!!! It really does work

 

[Flibble]

Guys quick update thanks for all your positive help. I am feeling a lot more positive he is definitly more responsive than he was but I have to put my legs in detention because I caught my self a couple of times using them just out of habit.

Did a bit of jumping too to wake him up and he enjoyed it so much I got to put my jumping safely lessons into practice!!

Mr Dead to the leg I have no energy jumped a few cross poles and then decided to show off to a friend and jumped one enthusiastically and bucked as he landed - I stayed on first time ever - maybe there is hope for us yet.