AmyMay
Situation normal
Did you try him yourself - how was he when you rode him?
dealer disaster
- Thread starter cheeryplatypus
- Start date
cheeryplatypus
Well-Known Member
he was a little lazy during the trial but fine once shown a jump he tacked and untacked perfectly and led to and from his stable nibbling the leadrope, what i should have done was remove the hay from the stall when looking at him as i think that would have helped reveal his true character. I'll definately be present at future vettings and get everything in writing. i suspect they had worked him hard the days before the trial so he was somewhat tired and less aggressive
vicijp
Well-Known Member
Im not sure evidence of his now behaviour is going to prove anything. His defence will reply with the state of care provided for him, which would be enough for anything to go nuts. TBH, I think to pursue anything at this moment would be useless - they are going to say you have changed the character of the horse by shutting him in.
It may be worth it in the long run to stable him with an outsider - someone capable and totally independant. Then get them to give an assessment of his behaviour.
It may be worth it in the long run to stable him with an outsider - someone capable and totally independant. Then get them to give an assessment of his behaviour.
AmyMay
Situation normal
Could it be that you have bought something that needs to be 'doing' something and having it's brain occupied? Quite conceivably if it were being prepared for sale it would be working daily - and doing something. However, the combination of little or no excerise with the stress of moving yards etc could be a contributing factor to his behaviour?
How experienced are you? Is this a highly strung ex competition horse being sold on to a quieter life - but needing a competent handler??
It's hard to comprehend that a vet would tell you in a later conversation that the horse was particularly aggressive, but not tell you at the time of his report.
It's hard to think that this situation is your fault in anyway - maybe you have just bitten off more than you can chew.
I feel worried for this horses welfare tbh and would get it back to the dealer pronto - even if you are at odds about whether you've been mis-sold a horse.
Bottom line is that it needs to be looked after appropriately and if you can't do it box it up and take it back.
How experienced are you? Is this a highly strung ex competition horse being sold on to a quieter life - but needing a competent handler??
It's hard to comprehend that a vet would tell you in a later conversation that the horse was particularly aggressive, but not tell you at the time of his report.
It's hard to think that this situation is your fault in anyway - maybe you have just bitten off more than you can chew.
I feel worried for this horses welfare tbh and would get it back to the dealer pronto - even if you are at odds about whether you've been mis-sold a horse.
Bottom line is that it needs to be looked after appropriately and if you can't do it box it up and take it back.
TequilaMist
Well-Known Member
Just wondering was there a access to water in stable?knew a dealer who used to withold water for ages prior to riding etc to get edge of horses.They were fine til they had a drink.Just a thought.Hope you get it sorted soon.
annaellie
Well-Known Member
I agree with jingle jingle, maybe you have bitten off more than you can chew, as my last post said I had a horse similar only I knew what I was getting into,I needed lots of help but the horse done a u turn in his manners, Regular work, keeping his mind occupied and diet and TO all assesed and showing him he could not take the mick (I never once laid a whip to him) changed him. Sometimes its not the horses fault just needs as above, though am not saying thats the case with your horse he could just be a nightmare.
vicm2509
Well-Known Member
Is it possible he could have been drugged when you tried him? I mean if the dealer knew you would not be present at the vetting then he would have no reason to drug the horse up would he? That would explain why he was calm on the viewing but not so for the vet.
I really dont know where you stand on this but tbh I would be inclined to swap this for another horse while you have the chance. At least if all goes pear shaped and your case is not as strong as you though then you will have a sane horse at the end of it.
Also I know it may sound strange but it is possible that the change of home could have a major effect on this horse. I bought a horse from a riding school years ago, I knew him very well and him was so sane, I saw him being shod and he was an angel, good for injections when vetted, good to clip, and wouldnt harm a fly. I bought him and he had to have 30 acp's to be shod, could not even think about clipping as he went crazy with the noise, turned into a psyco at the sight of a vet. But completly sane with me, I could do anything with him, under the saddle he was a star for anyone. He was not dangerous though and was handleable all the time except for the vet and farrier. All I could put it down to was a change in environment.
Do you have any info on this horses past?
I really dont know where you stand on this but tbh I would be inclined to swap this for another horse while you have the chance. At least if all goes pear shaped and your case is not as strong as you though then you will have a sane horse at the end of it.
Also I know it may sound strange but it is possible that the change of home could have a major effect on this horse. I bought a horse from a riding school years ago, I knew him very well and him was so sane, I saw him being shod and he was an angel, good for injections when vetted, good to clip, and wouldnt harm a fly. I bought him and he had to have 30 acp's to be shod, could not even think about clipping as he went crazy with the noise, turned into a psyco at the sight of a vet. But completly sane with me, I could do anything with him, under the saddle he was a star for anyone. He was not dangerous though and was handleable all the time except for the vet and farrier. All I could put it down to was a change in environment.
Do you have any info on this horses past?
vicm2509
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Could it be that you have bought something that needs to be 'doing' something and having it's brain occupied? Quite conceivably if it were being prepared for sale it would be working daily - and doing something. However, the combination of little or no excerise with the stress of moving yards etc could be a contributing factor to his behaviour?
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I totally agree. As I said in my last post my old horse changed a lot but remained the same under the saddle. He was from a riding school, was used to maybe 4 hours work a day, same thing day in day out. I got him, rode him for an hour each evening and he was turned out all day and in at night (at the riding school it was the other way round). This could have been the reason, maybe it stressed him out?
Change has a great effect on some horses.
Could it be that you have bought something that needs to be 'doing' something and having it's brain occupied? Quite conceivably if it were being prepared for sale it would be working daily - and doing something. However, the combination of little or no excerise with the stress of moving yards etc could be a contributing factor to his behaviour?
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[/ QUOTE ]
I totally agree. As I said in my last post my old horse changed a lot but remained the same under the saddle. He was from a riding school, was used to maybe 4 hours work a day, same thing day in day out. I got him, rode him for an hour each evening and he was turned out all day and in at night (at the riding school it was the other way round). This could have been the reason, maybe it stressed him out?
Change has a great effect on some horses.
cheeryplatypus
Well-Known Member
just heard back and my husband has managed to arrange a different swap with the dealer so hopefully he will be on his way back to the yard this week (have the ACP on standby). i know that being shut in is not good for him! although the area is quite large and he did jump out of three different fields prior to this and was starting to challenge the electric fence so had little choice since he was chasing people away from their horses and rearing at them in the field.
he definately needs a professional home where they might manage the rearing better and give him lots of work everyday to help reduce the agression.
he definately needs a professional home where they might manage the rearing better and give him lots of work everyday to help reduce the agression.
AmyMay
Situation normal
That's good news. Good luck with the new horse.
vicm2509
Well-Known Member
Brilliant. I think that is for the best. Good luck
cheeryplatypus
Well-Known Member
he came from belgium so little is known about his past. my friend said she's only seen such behaviour in horses that have been bottle-fed as they don't know how to behave properly with no dam to tell them when they overstep the mark.
AmyMay
Situation normal
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he came from belgium so little is known about his past. my friend said she's only seen such behaviour in horses that have been bottle-fed as they don't know how to behave properly with no dam to tell them when they overstep the mark.
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I think that you may just have got a little more 'horse' than you'd bargined for.
For pete's sake make sure you find out everything about this other horse that you can. Explain that you're specifically looking for something quiet and sensible, and be honest about your own experience.
he came from belgium so little is known about his past. my friend said she's only seen such behaviour in horses that have been bottle-fed as they don't know how to behave properly with no dam to tell them when they overstep the mark.
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I think that you may just have got a little more 'horse' than you'd bargined for.
For pete's sake make sure you find out everything about this other horse that you can. Explain that you're specifically looking for something quiet and sensible, and be honest about your own experience.
airedale
Well-Known Member
the jumping from field to field, biting, rearing, sounds to me like a late cut colt
it also sounds very much like he was well acp'd when you tried him and they couldn't do that for the vetting blood test so probably used magnesium calming paste which won't show on a blood test I believe
hope this one is a bit better and passes the vetting
personally I'd pop into the yard before the vetting, without warning and state you're not sure and can you see this new horse again.........and see what it's like when you appear unannounced.
If they won't let you see the swap horse and winge about it being 'in a far flung field' or something - then smell another rat
it also sounds very much like he was well acp'd when you tried him and they couldn't do that for the vetting blood test so probably used magnesium calming paste which won't show on a blood test I believe
hope this one is a bit better and passes the vetting
personally I'd pop into the yard before the vetting, without warning and state you're not sure and can you see this new horse again.........and see what it's like when you appear unannounced.
If they won't let you see the swap horse and winge about it being 'in a far flung field' or something - then smell another rat
Tufty
Well-Known Member
Sounds to me like you need a specialist horse solicitor for this job, but time is of the essence.
There must be some emergency injunction that you could get so that you can take the horse back, this is a really complicated issue. Things for the solicitor to consider :-
1. The horse is in danger of injuring itself
2. The horse is in danger of injuring someone else
3. You cant just dump it back on the dealer, it is now your property and your insurance companies liability.
You need to find a really good soliitor who can get to a court hearing quickly is my advice or things are going to get really complicated - I personally would not take a swap, if the horse is as bad as you say, what are his/her other horses like.
4. Do you need another vet for a second opinion and maybe an experienced horse person as witnesses.
Kick some butt at the lawyers or ask someone on here if there are specialised companies who deal in this sort of thing
There must be some emergency injunction that you could get so that you can take the horse back, this is a really complicated issue. Things for the solicitor to consider :-
1. The horse is in danger of injuring itself
2. The horse is in danger of injuring someone else
3. You cant just dump it back on the dealer, it is now your property and your insurance companies liability.
You need to find a really good soliitor who can get to a court hearing quickly is my advice or things are going to get really complicated - I personally would not take a swap, if the horse is as bad as you say, what are his/her other horses like.
4. Do you need another vet for a second opinion and maybe an experienced horse person as witnesses.
Kick some butt at the lawyers or ask someone on here if there are specialised companies who deal in this sort of thing
OWLIE185
Well-Known Member
Use a solicitor that specialises in equine matters.
You should always be present at the vetting so that the vet can explain things to you.
Why don't you find a nice horse locally where the history of it is known?
You should always be present at the vetting so that the vet can explain things to you.
Why don't you find a nice horse locally where the history of it is known?
Stella
Well-Known Member
I have only just seen this thread. I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. It sounds like you are having a very tough time. Regarding the points made about you getting 'a bit more horse than you wanted' and needing something quiet and sensible, I think very few people would want to have something that is this confident standing on its back legs and lashing out. Even a professional rider would usually only be up for that in something exceptionally talented! It sounds from your account as if he behaves like this in response to any little frustration and that is a lot more than you would get with most due to a change in routine and less work. It sounds to me as if you have been doing well struggling on. I have recently realised the common sense of having the horse vetted on the same day as its tried - obvious really, but it never occured to me before!
You have had a lot of good advice on the thread and as others have said, if he is okay under saddle and the advert didn't say he was easy to handle (or some such), sadly you may not have a strong case, so I hope the other one is reasonably okay. Even if not entirely what you want, it may be easier for you to sell than this one!
Which Dealer is it - Horse Imports by any chance?
You have had a lot of good advice on the thread and as others have said, if he is okay under saddle and the advert didn't say he was easy to handle (or some such), sadly you may not have a strong case, so I hope the other one is reasonably okay. Even if not entirely what you want, it may be easier for you to sell than this one!
Which Dealer is it - Horse Imports by any chance?
jules9671
Well-Known Member
i bought a horse from a dealer in north of scotland which i did not get vetted my own fault , but the same principle applies to things sold they should be fit for the purpose described from a kettle to a horse,i got in touch with trading standards who told me not to ride the horse or treat him like he was mine as i wanted a refund, long story short i did not go down that line but instead put ads in papers found out his breeder and his history so i kept him, i did put ads with dealers name on online sites
she threatened me with legal action but because i was telling the truth she had no power over any ads wanting history, maybe you should try same
she threatened me with legal action but because i was telling the truth she had no power over any ads wanting history, maybe you should try same
TequilaMist
Well-Known Member
Oh I'm from north scotland.Wasn't Aberdeen was it.Did you put ad in Scotequest?If so know who you mean.
natmac
New User
A friend of mine has also this year had terrible problems with a horse dealer in the Inverness area. She returned the pony, which was for her daughter and she considered it to be very dangerous even though it was sold as a schoolmaster. She was sure it was drugged when they tried it as it was so different when they got it home. She has been trying to get her money back for months now and is about to go to court over it. She would be very interested to know if these other cases in Scotland were from the same yard. There was another pony sold around the same time from the same yard, which put its rider in hospital the first time she rode it - they also returned the pony, and were given half the amount they paid for the pony. They only deal in cash and work with mobile numbers. Perhaps if it is the same dealers and their "clients" all go to trading standards at the same time, they will do something about them before someone gets killed. they are obviously buying cheap problem horses and selling them on as safe, schoolmaster types
SusieJane
Well-Known Member
Sorry to hear about this.
However, I think you need to weigh up 3 things:-
1) £180 blood testing fee V never knowing, and running out of time to have it tested
2) solicitors fees etc V just handing back the horse to dealer
3) the value of your own life V losing the price of the horse
Personally, I would go back to the dealer, with a solicitors letter, no if's or but's ~ leave the horse there, and get your money back.
I would also chase up the vet. NOT good practise!
However, I think you need to weigh up 3 things:-
1) £180 blood testing fee V never knowing, and running out of time to have it tested
2) solicitors fees etc V just handing back the horse to dealer
3) the value of your own life V losing the price of the horse
Personally, I would go back to the dealer, with a solicitors letter, no if's or but's ~ leave the horse there, and get your money back.
I would also chase up the vet. NOT good practise!
Toby_Zaphod
Well-Known Member
Under the Sale of Goods Act, horses are classed as goods, you are entitled to a horse which is fit for the job for which it was supplied. If it is not as described you will be entitled to your money back. The Act does not mention a swap for something else so definately do not accept a swap. The dealer has lied & sold you a right lemon....he's done it once & will probably try to do it again. Maintain your stance on getting a full refund, via your solicitor & go elsewhere for your new horse.
Gathering video evidence etc of the appalling behavior of this horse will greatly assist you should this matter end up in court. If it has to go that far don''t worry too much about the cost, it will be in the 'small claims court' & the cost is minimal. Additionally when you win the costs will be awarded against the dealer anyway.
Good Luck
Gathering video evidence etc of the appalling behavior of this horse will greatly assist you should this matter end up in court. If it has to go that far don''t worry too much about the cost, it will be in the 'small claims court' & the cost is minimal. Additionally when you win the costs will be awarded against the dealer anyway.
Good Luck
katelarge
Well-Known Member
If I was you I would be sitting down with a lawyer to discuss the legal side - or even the Citizen's Advice Bureau.
As for the horse's welfare, I would start by going to montyroberts.co.uk, then following the link to help with your horse. While I loathe some of the people on the DG I have nothing but respect for Kelly Marks and her RAs' work! There is a list of approved Recommended Associates (RAs) who will help with your horse, usually for a reasonable rate. The horse sounds very disturbed and unfortunately is only going to get worse.
The RAs specialise in tricky horses so they will not be fazed by this horse, and in fact some RAs will actually be able to take the horse on livery for a while to work with it. I really think you need someone to get involved with the horse who can break the cycle of its behaviour, I would be worried things will get worse instead of better.
I do sympathise with you, these people put money before the welfare of people and horses and it's just not right. Caveat emptor...
good luck! x
As for the horse's welfare, I would start by going to montyroberts.co.uk, then following the link to help with your horse. While I loathe some of the people on the DG I have nothing but respect for Kelly Marks and her RAs' work! There is a list of approved Recommended Associates (RAs) who will help with your horse, usually for a reasonable rate. The horse sounds very disturbed and unfortunately is only going to get worse.
The RAs specialise in tricky horses so they will not be fazed by this horse, and in fact some RAs will actually be able to take the horse on livery for a while to work with it. I really think you need someone to get involved with the horse who can break the cycle of its behaviour, I would be worried things will get worse instead of better.
I do sympathise with you, these people put money before the welfare of people and horses and it's just not right. Caveat emptor...
good luck! x
virtual
Well-Known Member
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I think you have to be a little realistic. I have recently tried a horse which was a 4 hour drive from me (i.e. 8 hour round trip!)
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I'm intrigued FMM, what did you have vetted? (and more importantly, did it pass?)
I think you have to be a little realistic. I have recently tried a horse which was a 4 hour drive from me (i.e. 8 hour round trip!)
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I'm intrigued FMM, what did you have vetted? (and more importantly, did it pass?)
WishfulThinker
Well-Known Member
Oh!! I know someone who got a pony from a dealer up there. Was sold for 1.5k as a novice ride!! Thing rears and lunges at u, kicks and goes mental! also has a VERY bad back, chronic sweet itch and bad feet. Also was mean to be around 14 - looks more like its 20!
Where I had Beau b4 there was a pony from up Inverness way, the girl who moved Beau for me had gone and collected it. Damn this was only 12.2hh but in a CHIFENY bit it still managed to DRAG her along the yard! It was sold as a leadrein pony, and most definately was not. It was kept with Beau and made life hellish as he would go for him, then would wind him up so he was impossible to catch - the record was 2 hours - usually u can just stride up to him in the field.
I believe there are 2 dealers of the same last name - often get ehm confused - but from what i have head both as bad as eac other! The one my mate got her pony from offered me £900 for beau, when she was selling lesser horses for near 4k - go figure!
Where I had Beau b4 there was a pony from up Inverness way, the girl who moved Beau for me had gone and collected it. Damn this was only 12.2hh but in a CHIFENY bit it still managed to DRAG her along the yard! It was sold as a leadrein pony, and most definately was not. It was kept with Beau and made life hellish as he would go for him, then would wind him up so he was impossible to catch - the record was 2 hours - usually u can just stride up to him in the field.
I believe there are 2 dealers of the same last name - often get ehm confused - but from what i have head both as bad as eac other! The one my mate got her pony from offered me £900 for beau, when she was selling lesser horses for near 4k - go figure!