Dear HHO, the importation of EIA

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QR to whoever said it had been quickly contained....


How can you say it's been quickly contained? The horses arrived here before Christmas!

From spotting the first animal with suspected FMD to the first cull was a matter of 48 hours I believe....yet look where that ended in 2001?

I believe vector transmitted diseases have the propensity to cause more widespread infection, possibly over a quicker period. I fully expect we will see a cluster of cases in Wiltshire within the next few days.

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I didn't see when the horses arrived to be honest. 22nd of December to 19th Jan is a long time for tests, I imagine they could seriously tighten up on the wait for blood tests.

FMD has FAR more highly contagious as it was transmitted from contact, so people, vehicles, animals, etc could all transmit it.

Well, it depends on the vector. If the vector is a rare animal at this time of year like a blood sucking insect then the likelihood of transmission will also be very unlikely.
 
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OK, I am entirely with you there! I don't want to import EIA in this country either, but there seems to be a system in place for checking, the checks were done, the horses were euthanised. It seems to have worked?

Perhaps we should have a stricter system, but would people really trust a piece of paper from another country certifying the horse was EIA free?

Still not sure what this has to do with the 'rescue' discussions.

Still think there is no cause for worry regarding this disease spreading from this incident which appears to have been quickly contained.

[/ QUOTE ]any old horse from anywhere can be legally exported to GB if it it is dressed up as a French cheval or if it has 'lived' on French soil before being hauled into GB. All that is needed is a truck arriving from 'wherever' with horses onboard destined for the butcher. Low end dealers or so called 'rescue orgs' buy them up at the going meat price and sell them on as ...whatever you want . Dodgy passports can be organised and cheapish transport too! Almost door to door service and no questions asked, no need for Coggins testing due to the TPA...voila, EIA enters this country.
 
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The thing is we have the flu vaccine for horses so we do have a greater level of protection. Whereas EIA we are unprepared for as our horses are not vaccinated.

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I completely agree, and would also add the flu is more contageous than EIA so despite the vaccination programme I bet you we will see more deaths from flu that from EIA.
 
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OK, I am entirely with you there! I don't want to import EIA in this country either, but there seems to be a system in place for checking, the checks were done, the horses were euthanised. It seems to have worked?

Perhaps we should have a stricter system, but would people really trust a piece of paper from another country certifying the horse was EIA free?

Still not sure what this has to do with the 'rescue' discussions.

Still think there is no cause for worry regarding this disease spreading from this incident which appears to have been quickly contained.

[/ QUOTE ]any old horse from anywhere can be legally exported to GB if it it is dressed up as a French cheval or if it has 'lived' on French soil before being hauled into GB. All that is needed is a truck arriving from 'wherever' with horses onboard destined for the butcher. Low end dealers or so called 'rescue orgs' buy them up at the going meat price and sell them on as ...whatever you want . Dodgy passports can be organised and cheapish transport too! Almost door to door service and no questions asked, no need for Coggins testing due to the TPA...voila, EIA enters this country.

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Still lost here...did these horses come from France? The article says Romania and Belgium. Did they avoid the test? The article suggests the disease was caught during routine testing which, presumably, was carried out because the animals did NOT come from a tripartite agreement state.

Any importation of animals is a potential danger as is the movement of wildlife, the pet passports, etc. and one of the many things wrong with the French 'rescue' is the potential for importing unhealthy animals that have not gone through adequate controls, but, at the risk of repeating myself, why is this relevant to this case????
 
I would also guess that horses transported across Europe may well travel through France, and it only takes one infected midge to bite them during a stop and voila, infected horse coming into the UK...
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QR to whoever said it had been quickly contained....


How can you say it's been quickly contained? The horses arrived here before Christmas!

From spotting the first animal with suspected FMD to the first cull was a matter of 48 hours I believe....yet look where that ended in 2001?

I believe vector transmitted diseases have the propensity to cause more widespread infection, possibly over a quicker period. I fully expect we will see a cluster of cases in Wiltshire within the next few days.

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I didn't see when the horses arrived to be honest. 22nd of December to 19th Jan is a long time for tests, I imagine they could seriously tighten up on the wait for blood tests.

FMD has FAR more highly contagious as it was transmitted from contact, so people, vehicles, animals, etc could all transmit it.

Well, it depends on the vector. If the vector is a rare animal at this time of year like a blood sucking insect then the likelihood of transmission will also be very unlikely.

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There is also a bit of a paradox here - either it is a long time from entry to testing and vectors are about, in which case surely there should be a rash of cases by now, which it appears there is not. Or, the vectors are hatching and not surviving, therefore the risk of transmission is low, hence no rash of cases. Or, the testing was done sufficiently quickly.

I don't think it is possible for both the vectors to be alive and transmitting and the testing to have taken too long, given that there are only 2 cases now. Or perhaps I am missing something.

I'm not suggesting this isn't serious, just saying you can't have it both ways!

ETA: Also, given that the vector is a biting insect, why do more competition horses, many of whom regularly compete on the continent not test positive? Serious, genuine question.

Finally, given that the vectors can easily cross the channel, why have we not had it before? And what is there to suggest we won't get it in the future from this source?

Anyone who thinks this country is rabies free is misguided - one or two rabid bats cross the channel every so often, and occasionally people die from being bitten by them.
 
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There is also a bit of a paradox here - either it is a long time from entry to testing and vectors are about, in which case surely there should be a rash of cases by now, which it appears there is not. Or, the vectors are hatching and not surviving, therefore the risk of transmission is low, hence no rash of cases. Or, the testing was done sufficiently quickly.

I don't think it is possible for both the vectors to be alive and transmitting and the testing to have taken too long, given that there are only 2 cases now. Or perhaps I am missing something.

I'm not suggesting this isn't serious, just saying you can't have it both ways!

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Now that I can agree with!!!!!!!!!!
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QR: I would just like to clarify the following.

The anti Franch rescue people were not against the import of Franch rescue horses for the sake of it.

One of the many reasons for opposition to this trade, is because there is a loophole in the law, these horses are able to be imported without stringent veterinary checks, which means that crippled, diseased, and infectious horses can get into this country. The very real threat of EIA entering the UK was always high on the agenda.
Those on HHO who think iNAGS is simply about the Franch rescue cause, are invited to read the info and blogs, rather than just passing this off as yet another anti Franch argument.

I am saddened by those who are belittling this problem.

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Not many mosquitos round here at the moment, so I'll put off panicking for a while...

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That has to be one of the most ignorant comments I have read on here.
I hope to god that the owners of the two dead horses don't come on HHO...

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Well said DUBS
To the reader who isn't panicking just yet, I'm not panicking yet either - I'll wait till summer when the midges and flies spread this disease all around the country.
 
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There is also a bit of a paradox here - either it is a long time from entry to testing and vectors are about, in which case surely there should be a rash of cases by now, which it appears there is not. Or, the vectors are hatching and not surviving, therefore the risk of transmission is low, hence no rash of cases. Or, the testing was done sufficiently quickly.

I don't think it is possible for both the vectors to be alive and transmitting and the testing to have taken too long, given that there are only 2 cases now. Or perhaps I am missing something.

I'm not suggesting this isn't serious, just saying you can't have it both ways!

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Now that I can agree with!!!!!!!!!!
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sadly as DEFRA are involved, its bound to be a complete hash...

better to be overly aware, thsn complacent....

remember DEFRA was MAFF in a previous life.....
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Still lost here...did these horses come from France? The article says Romania and Belgium. Did they avoid the test? The article suggests the disease was caught during routine testing which, presumably, was carried out because the animals did NOT come from a tripartite agreement state.



[/ QUOTE ]One can get an animal from a non TPA state, put it in a TPA state, get a passport and transport it to GB under the TPA therefore not bothering with the coggins test.....cheap transport, cheap knackered horse.
INAGs wants the loopholes changes on the TPA to stop this happening !!!
 
But you would'nt know how many cases there were yet anyway. At this stage I believe testing would be neccessary to find out if an animal had it/was carrying it, they appear quite healthy on the outside for prolonged periods of time. This is how I understand EIA from the little reading I have done anyway. I'm prepared to be corrected. Think of it as similar to HIV.
 
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But the horses did not come from France???? I really fail to see the relevance.

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Did you read my post?
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I don't think I could have made it clearer that the anti Franch stance is only a part of what iNAGS is about.
One of our main aims is to have tripartite agreement amended, in order to prevent infectious diseases (such as EIA) entering the UK.

If you would rather take the negative stance that this is somebody elses problem, and be apathetic, then that's your prerogative, but I believe that most horse owners will be extremely worried about this disease entering the country, and will be wanting to do their utmost to try and contain it.
 
Bottom line is, EIA is here.

How many other horses have sliped thru the testing net, and could indeed have EIA but not being showing no symptoms??

DEFRA will only tell us what they want us to know
 
We'd not had blue tongue before....but it's here now. Global warming, I believe, was the blame...or was it the Channel Tunnel?
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I guess the good thing here is that these horses have tested positive as "carriers", and are therefore not showing any symptoms themselves.

Maybe the tests weren't rushed through, due to complacency, as one assumes the horses all appeared healthy....maybe the cold snap prevented vets getting out to them after Christmas for what would've appeared as a "non-urgent" call out.

I don't have any knowledge of the guidelines with which the imported tests are carried out. Is there a time scale to adhere to as I presume they're not tested at ports/airports anyway.

You're right, there are less biting insects at the moment, no horseflies for example, but then I expect there will potentially be an influx of cases in spring/summer.

One main difference I've observed between cattle and equines (comparing the spread of blue tongue in cattle to how EIA may pan out) is that horses do not tolerate anything landing on it. They endeavour to remove whatever is biting them in various ways. Cattle will just lie in the field with a whole army of flies sat biting them, not giving them a care in the world.

If the insect has to feed for a certain length of time to infect their host...maybe this explains why infection rates are lower?

(Do forgive my babble...It is late!)
 
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But the horses did not come from France???? I really fail to see the relevance.

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Did you read my post?
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I don't think I could have made it clearer that the anti Franch stance is only a part of what iNAGS is about.
One of our main aims is to have tripartite agreement amended, in order to prevent infectious diseases (such as EIA) entering the UK.

If you would rather take the negative stance that this is somebody elses problem, and be apathetic, then that's your prerogative, but I believe that most horse owners will be extremely worried about this disease entering the country, and will be wanting to do their utmost to try and contain it.

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I cannot see how ANY horse owner in the UK can be apathetic about EIA...

as it would mean, without exception, euthanasia....with a paltry £1 compensation.


We really don't want to say "I told you so" in 18 months time...
 
When foot and mouth broke out, France, and many other closed their ports to our meat, in order to protect their own.
So why are we being so horizontal when it comes to our own borders???
The tripartate doesnt work as it currently stands.
The loopholes are huge, and allow the unscrupulous lowlife's out there the oportunity to infect our shores with the kind of infections we are seeing today.
EIA is a real threat. It CAN happen to you, and unless we as do something to close the glaring big loopholes staring us in the face, the odds of it really happening to you are fast becoming shorter.
 
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Well said Mairi and Dubs.

lzt: from what I remember, HHO banned all anti-Franch-rescue members that didn't keep their mouths shut as they didn't want to be implicated by the consquences.

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I think its pretty understandable that IPC Media don't want to get mixed up in a potential court case due to defamatory comments.

Awful about the disease coming over to the UK but I do find the accusation that HHO are somehow to blame for this completely ludicrous.
 
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Well said Mairi and Dubs.

lzt: from what I remember, HHO banned all anti-Franch-rescue members that didn't keep their mouths shut as they didn't want to be implicated by the consquences.

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I think its pretty understandable that IPC Media don't want to get mixed up in a potential court case due to defamatory comments.

Awful about the disease coming over to the UK but I do find the accusation that HHO are somehow to blame for this completely ludicrous.

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I don't think anybody is suggesting that they are directly to blame.

What I find sad is that one of the largest equine information sharing platforms in the internet is censored in this way, particularly where horse welfare is jeopardised as a result. It would not be difficult to stick a disclaimer above this forum stating that "the views represented by members of this forum are not necessarily those of IPC media or its associates" or similar. Plenty of other companies manage it.
 
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I think its pretty understandable that IPC Media don't want to get mixed up in a potential court case due to defamatory comments.



[/ QUOTE ]Agreed, but the thing is, is that none of it was defamatory, facts were the only things posted on here but the franchies screamed libel at every thread to stop the truth getting out....much easier for admin to start bannings that get embroiled in it all......they would deliberately name drop in threads to get them removed and be personally abusive...wonder if i get banned tomorrow??
 
Well said Mairi and Dubs and also Munchkin. I wasnt here for the franch think but i have seen enough references to it by now and also facebook to sort of understand it. and perhaps Admin could have investigated the matter on their own behalf to see the truth of the matter or not. and while they were entitled to ban people for defamation the subject should not have been banned per see as it obviously has some very serious implications, the results of which may well be before us now.
as the national paper for horses, i do think this publication has a certain responsibility in some areas.
 
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Still lost here...did these horses come from France? The article says Romania and Belgium. Did they avoid the test? The article suggests the disease was caught during routine testing which, presumably, was carried out because the animals did NOT come from a tripartite agreement state.


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Not from France but likely both transported through France.

These may not have been transported via TPA, but many are transported from EIA areas via France as a stop over to exploit the TPA.

My understanding is that clear Coggins test are supposed to be obtain prior to export/import.............thus doing it once the animal is already in the country is a bit like shutting the stable door once the horse has bolted.

Anyway god forbid that your equine becomes infected, I hope you will be satisfied with your £1 compensation....
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Well, how about we all stop bitching and moaning about each other, and force DEFRA to BAN all horse imports.

Presumably EIA is a notifiable disease?

Well, screw the racing industry - full horse movement bans should be in place.

If HHO members went to their yards, stopped all horse movements, told their friends, their families - we could FORCE a ban on movements! If we all write to defra now, we could FORCE the official ban.
with H&H, HORSE and other IPC magazines behind us, we'd have to act.

But, alas, HHO will decend into a bitchfest and the thread will be deleted. Shame, that.

But - my tuppence - INAG need to have a serious think about their plan of attack if their members keep being banned from HHO. I suspect it's not so much the attitude towards french rescues as the attitude to her fellow human beings that was the problem!
 
I apologise, the impression this thread gave was that HHO users who attempted to dispute french rescues were banned. And as thats the entire point of INAG, I put two and two together.

Especially following the removal of this forum by a particularly well known anti french rescue forum member who is also a member if INAG.
 
Please follow the links in my siggy, then you will see that you are completely wrong. Also the person you are referring to was not banned in relation to any comments either Franch or INAGs related.

Shall we get back to the point of the OP thread now?
 
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