Debate - can foals/youngsters etc ever...

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Ranyhyn

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Be bought and brought on/backed etc successfully by a novice owner/rider? SHOULD novice owners and riders purchase foals and youngsters? CAN it work out well?

Stories and thoughts please?

Kitty
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Define Novice?

If you class me as a novice then yes, just look at my Bodey Cob!

He was a wild (literally couldn’t touch him) 3 year old when I got him. I had had a few experiences with young horses but never backed my own.
I had help from the ground and took it really slowly, and just used good common sense (plus read lots and got advise from on here).

Three years on and look at us now, we jump, hunt, do Novice dressage, do a bit of everything really.
I do have weekly lessons, which obviously have helped immensely, and also my sister (_Gina_), has been a massive support. Also I choose a horse that suited me, there were ups and downs, as with any youngster but I wouldn’t have done anything different.

I believe I have produced a well rounded gelding. And love every minute with him!
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So yes it can be done!
 
It depends what you class as novice. I have had ponies for over 7 years and worked in riding schools, dealers yards and point to point yards since i started riding, I bought a mare who was in foal (although we didnt know at the time) and 10months later along came a coloured coblet foaly...she is now rising 5 and is backed and being ridden away. I havent done it all myself but the majority i have and i dont think i have done a bad job...far from it imo. However...i wouldnt have set out to buy a foal, it was sort of thrown at me :lol: but like the post above..i wouldnt have it any other way now!
 
Ditto Levantosh - we see far too many horses with real problems because of human error. They are not all born this way, humans have created most of the problems due to lack of knowledge.

I think also it can be done as long as the person has an experienced person to help/back up. On the other coin I have a fairly experinced rider friend who has ridden over 30 yrs, bought a youngster and has totally messed it up, only now 3 yrs down the line will she seek help and admit she has messed up.
 
Novice to me = someone who hasn't brought on/broken in youngsters before and or someone who is a novice rider ie someone who has basic riding know how but not anything special.
 
That is probably me then, even though I have been riding over 20 years, Bodey was the first horse I backed.
I also think it’s a lot about choosing the right type of horse. A good natured Gypsy Cob would be very different to back compared to say highly bred Warmblood or Thoroughbred. Which I would never have chosen to do.
 
Ummm I think I qualified as a total novice when I bought my first mare (in foal)

I don't ride and only had a pony for my daughter - I had never been near a horse before she started learning to ride and freely admit I was terrified of them!!

However I did have an experienced stud owner to help if needed, now 6 years and 8 foals (3 more due this year) I still count as a novice but have my own place and the last 2 years have foaled + handled them with no intervention. I am proud to say my youngsters are well manered, good to handle and respectful. All done with firm and consistent boundaries and without violence.
 
If they are a novice rider and a novice owner then I'd say it's a disastrous combination. I've sold youngsters to a few novice owners but they have been good riders and have tons of professional back up and are on large livery yards - I wouldn't sell if they were in middle of no where and not going to get help, it doesn't take long for something small to become a major and dangerous problem.
I would rather sell to an eager novice who is keen to learn and has plenty of back up than someone who has ridden for 30 yrs thinks they know everything and do it themselves badly - you can usually spot these from a mile off - we just won't sell them anything!
I think it is a matter of looking at each individual and the horse to see if they suit each other too and what their aims are for the future, I think too many people over horse themselves and then won't admit they have got it wrong and it is the horse that suffers.
 
Depends on what you define as a novice.
I am very capable in the handling and looking after of horses and have turned around many a sorry case but I am not the most confident rider so that is why I have youngsters but pay my friend/instructor to come and back/break them from here.

I am more than capable of backing/breaking and schooling but without the confidence I once had it is not a good recipe for a solid foundation for a youngster as I think they need somebody confident to give them their confidence if that makes sense.

I think too many people think they are capable of backing a youngster until it goes pear shaped and by the time they admit they are in trouble the horse is now a problem/project.

I think more people should accept and admit their capabilities.
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I (suprisingly) think that it can work fine - we all have to start somewhere. BUT there are two important issues.
1. have a genuinely experienced person on hand - rather than a bunch of armchair experts on a forum.
2. It will not work if the handler is afraid of the horse and the horse is a bit sharp. That is a recipe for disaster.
 
Its an interesting debate, there is a guy on my yard who is a complete novice, and has a 16hh+ sports horse type horse that he's had since a foal. The horse is absolutely fantastic, couldn't wish for a better natured or mannered horse really. But his owner is a self confessed novice.

Its amazing really.
 
THe guy probably doesn't know what he doesn't know and I think sometimes that so long as you are self assured and positive, then even if you are doing it wrong, they don't know any different so no harm done.
 
Most people lack common sense around horses, and think it is ok to do any thing around them, even the most capable people have put themselves in dangerous situations around my horses.
I have a 14 year old that I would not let some capable look after quite simply because they have little respect for him and what is is capable of doing.

As a novice, which is what I feel I will always be. I have enough common sense to know what is right and what is wrong, when it comes to backing my foal he will be sent away I will have done every thing with him other than had some one on him.

I have a horse that I am scared of, not because I am scared of him, because I am scared of what other people will do around him, which will cause him to spook. He is off dartmoor and people with there ready made horses have little idea that the smallest thing can upset him.

Foals and youngsters are easy compared to semi ferral ponies.


Kitsune in answer to your question, most of the people I know I would not trust with a paper bag let alone a foal or youngster, but people can do it with common sense and alot of help, time and back up.
 
i don't think its amazing at all.

as long as you have patience and think logically i think a novice can be far better for a young horse than a know it all.

when i was 15 i bought a 17.1hh 3yro unbroken mare as she was all i could afford.
as i had never broken a horse before, i didn't know what she should be doing but we took it all very slowly, if she (or i!) was unsure about anything i dropped back a stage.

lotti turned out to be the most beautifully mannered horse you could have wished for.
she was almost telepathic in knowing what you wanted in the school, you could hack her on the buckle, lead horses off her, teach new riders on her and she never put a foot wrong.
 
Hmm, difficult one I think. I realise you have provided a definition of novice but I still don't think its that simple. By your definition I would be a novice, as although I have ridden for 24 years and have owned for 18years including two 4yos, I have never worked with a foal or unbacked youngster. In theory I think I would have the knowledge to do a good job (don't have the confidence or ability though!) but without any experience I couldn't guarantee that I wouldn't make lots of mistakes along the way!
I guess provided you have a reasonable degree of horsey experince and you have a good support network - and not too highly bred a horse! - then it could work.
Don't know if i'd ever be brave enough though!
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I think having confidence in handling horses in all situations is the most important aspect, people can be experienced but still nervous that then goes straight to the horse. You may not have backed a horse before but if you do your home work and are confident and sensible it is not rocket science.
 
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with your post but surely this is down to the individual.

I rescued a young mare from travellers in Ireland having never had a youngster. Turns out she was in foal having never had one before so I'm a novice and think you'd be very hard pushed to find anyone who'd say I didn't do a pretty good job.

The mare is competing successfully at dressage (with my friend) and there have been umpteen offers to buy her - although she's never for sale. I've yet to find any person at any yard where turbo has been who doesn't think he's pretty special. He's good natured and well mannered while remaining cheeky and entertaining.

But what I'll tell you I see much more of.

People who have years of riding / breeding / competing etc ruining perfectly good horses cause of their supposed knowledge. An example was one who told me I'd probably killed my foal as I'd wormed him before he was 6 months. Same 'experienced' breeder has had 3 youngsters die from worm infestations. I'm so sick of hear people who think they are god's gift to the equine world bumping their gums about how bloody wonderful they are and how other people shouldn't have horses.
 
I have 2 youngsters after a long long break from riding. I never had a youngster before and ended up with 2! a 2yr old and a yearling, just bitted the older of the 2 and currently leading her out and getting used to traffic etc.....so far so good!! been doing loads of reading and asking advice etc....... wouldn't say i was a novice, just not much experience with youngsters. The other one is much bigger then the first so when the time is right i may call in on a very experienced instructor person who is excellent at long reining and backing etc......going to see how i get on first. Both have good manners and i can do alot of basic things with them ie picking up feet, tying them up (something they couldnt do when i got them!) and getting them used to traffic etc.........
 
As long as they know they are a novice and are prepared to ask and take advice where necessary I guess it can be done. Not ideal but Ok IMO.
A far more dangerous scenario would be someone, anyone, novice or otherwise, taking on something, having problems but refusing to acknowledge them.
 
I dont think a novice should buy a youngster personally, unless they have the backing of someone who can teach them properly.

A lady on my yard has bought a 3 year old pony for her daughter. 6 months on she cannot handle it and it has been left for me to sort out (why me I will never know since I am no expert!)

I believe you should have some sort of knowledge before buying any horse, but especially a baby as its so easy to ruin them!
 
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Novice to me = someone who hasn't brought on/broken in youngsters before and or someone who is a novice rider ie someone who has basic riding know how but not anything special.

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No then,in a word!

Might out of pure luck and good nature of the youngster end up with one that's a nice natured plod about or one they can get by not doing alot on/ask of much...but as far as bringing on a horse from scratch to of a decent schooled status off their own backs, with no help or tuition....then no chance tbh.
Hald the ponies and horses I've and many others have probably had to deal with or ended up with are one's bought by numpties which had this idea and ruined what could have a been a nice horse because of it.

Sorry, very heated subject to me lol.
 
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Novice to me = someone who hasn't brought on/broken in youngsters before

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Surely then, if we went by that, no one would ever do it? As it would be a circle of needing the experience but not being able to get it due to not having experience...

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[ QUOTE ]
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Novice to me = someone who hasn't brought on/broken in youngsters before

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Surely then, if we went by that, no one would ever do it? As it would be a circle of needing the experience but not being able to get it due to not having experience...

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There's getting it through helping alongside and watching others experienced who have [and who probably learnt the same way]...rather than going it alone though!
 
If you've got an experienced person on the ground to help and you're not afraid to ask questions every step of the way then yes I think it can work.
 
I think it's important to know your limitations, and as jobo says, it depends massively on the horse. Both me and my OH have been around horses for years, and I've had mine for 12 years (and we were both green novices when I bought him), my OH is very confident handling any horse, and very calm, he took my foal for his first walk last week, but I was the first to gentle him, headcollar, pick up feet. Our homebred filly may be too sharp for me, I expect I'll do the initial sitting on her, certainly I've bitted her, she's had rugs on, surcingale and numnah etc, but I won't persevere with backing/riding on if I'm in any doubt about it going well, I'll have the work done professionally, and if I'm not happy to take her on from there, I'll think on again - loan to suitable home possibly. The colt foal is a completely different personality to the filly (he was bought in, and was untouched) and I find him a lot easier and laid back, and therefore I hope that I will do the backing when the time comes.

I suppose I'm saying that I am essentially a novice, but I know my boundaries, I'm not so stupid to think that I can do it all alone, but I hope to do the easy bits, and if in doubt, take a step back, re think the situation and get help!
 
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