Debate: Performance horse class - What would that mean to YOU?

Puppy

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If you went to a BHS affiliated Riding Club show, and entered a class that was called in the programme: Performance horse/pony - To include a small course of jumps and an individual show 2’3” What would YOU expect to be important aspects/requirements to be succesful in such a class?

How much importance would you put on the jumping aspect?

The bit/tack the horse was in?

The age of the horse?

Whether the horse was plaited or not?

What else do you think would be crucial to be successful?
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I'd be *really* interested to know how much peoples views on this may differ
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(hence am not going to post mine just yet
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Not that I really "do" showing, to say the least!
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It is maybe worth mentioning that the show also had classes for Family mount, and RC horse - which to me suggests the class has different requirements that either of those would....

Thoughts please people
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Thanks
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Madam_max

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Well I would expect the jumps to be bigger than 2'3 tbh
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. Just tack as you would for a WH class. Yes the horse should def be plaited. I would just expect the horse to jump clear with some style and do an obidient individual show.
 

AmyMay

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Ooo gonna grab a coffee on this one.

But here you go - for me:

* Jumping - horse/pony must go clear.
* Tack - Bridle and bit of choice. ie doesn't have to be snaffle (wouldn't expect it to be a double bridle though).
* Age - between 4 and 10 yrs.
* Plaited - of course.

I would expect the higher placed horses to have gone clear and done a good show - showing the horse to be well schooled and balanced. They would also display good confirmation.
 

arwenplusone

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I did a class last year with my young horse which was 'Young performance horse'

It was marked similarly to a working hunter class.
A course of fences (about 2'9) then an individual show where horse was marked on conformation, way of going & 'suitability of type'

I would expect a successful horse to go clear in a good time with a nice style over the fence, have a calm, consistent way of going (leg into hand not forced into outline) & have even, flowing paces. Maybe not exceptional in any of the elements but a well put together all rounder that could turn its hoof to anything?

Probably totally subjective class though! lots of grey areas IMO.
 

Puppy

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So would you place a badly put together, unattractive, 31 year old in a gag that knocked down fences?
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AmyMay

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[ QUOTE ]
So would you place a badly put together, unattractive, 31 year old in a gag that knocked down fences?
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Out of sympathy maybe - or perhaps as some sort of sick joke.....

Oh dear
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arwenplusone

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[ QUOTE ]
So would you place a badly put together, unattractive, 31 year old in a gag that knocked down fences?
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Of course I would. If the rider was my best friend/hunting buddy.....
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Puppy

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Well I did come out the ring laughing my head off - if the judge was joking that would explain a lot!
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Can't say I wasn't warned in advance by my farrier that this RC wouldn't know a performance class if it jumped up and bit them on the *rse!!
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Puppy

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[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
So would you place a badly put together, unattractive, 31 year old in a gag that knocked down fences?
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[/ QUOTE ]

Of course I would. If the rider was my best friend/hunting buddy.....
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LOL! Oh, that didn't occur to me. Perhaps the difference between members and non members was a factor I hadn't thought of
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Ok, green four year old that knocks down 2 of 6 jumping efforts ahead of a horse that goes clear????
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Starbucks

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I think it would be like a WH class - only with competing in mind instread of hunting.

Jumping - important
Bit/tack - not that relevent
age of horse - shouldn't matter but age should be taken into account when judging - i.e. a 5 yo could be forgiven for being green but not a 10 yo
horse should be plaited - it's a showing class afterall

As the other have said really with regards to clear round/nice show.

I don't like showing either!! I went in a WH a few weeks ago, came second - judge said Badger should have won because she would much prefer a days hunting on him, but she had a mark me down because I cantered behind the line up in my show which you shouldn't do apparently. Booo!
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Kenzo

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Firstly I personally would expect the judge to take the breeding into consideration, no offence but I would not expect the heavier types, because the horse should be bred for endurance, speed, stamina, be agile and the ability to 'perform' those tasks at ease.

Then of course confirmation should kick in, good confirmation, soundness and of course correct paces and movement...this will of course vary on the the type/breed...which is why you need to esablish the type in the first place, like my dad says ...a blood osses!

I'd expect the horse to be well muscled, perhaps a little light due its fitness but indeed still in very good all round condition.

Jumping, I'd expect all horses in the class to be able to jump something meaty...and jump well, doesn't matter what height providing they do it well but I guess at an affiliated/county level etc then I'd would presume it would be a lot bigger than 2'3''!

Perhaps judged like the sport horse classes or young event horse classes for example, maybe I'm wrong
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, just what I'd personally expect to be honest.

Definitely plaited up though.
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AmyMay

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I would actually right a letter of complaint. How are people supposed to improve and learn if even the judges don't know what to look for?????
 

Starbucks

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[ QUOTE ]
Ok, green four year old that knocks down 2 of 6 jumping efforts ahead of a horse that goes clear????


[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe - if it was really nice in other ways and genuinely green - and the other horse was a bit ropey.
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Kenzo

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[ QUOTE ]
I think it would be like a WH class - only with competing in mind instread of hunting.

Jumping - important
Bit/tack - not that relevent
age of horse - shouldn't matter but age should be taken into account when judging - i.e. a 5 yo could be forgiven for being green but not a 10 yo
horse should be plaited - it's a showing class afterall

As the other have said really with regards to clear round/nice show.

I don't like showing either!! I went in a WH a few weeks ago, came second - judge said Badger should have won because she would much prefer a days hunting on him, but she had a mark me down because I cantered behind the line up in my show which you shouldn't do apparently. Booo!
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Never even knew that...learn somat every day on here!

Ironic though, I can see pehaps why you shouldnt do it, maybe its so you dont upset/unsettle the other horses with thundering hooves cantering behind them....but is that not what happens out on the hunting field? they should beable to stand quietly and have mannor while others are shifting about...ok rant over, its a shame she knocked you just because of that...I'll get of my soapbox now
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Puppy

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[ QUOTE ]
I would actually right a letter of complaint. How are people supposed to improve and learn if even the judges don't know what to look for?????

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LOL! I really don't think its worth my energy.
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I did "chat" with the judge
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and amongst other things said very politely that I wouldn't have entered/spent my money, if I'd seen what a small ring it was for so many horses and what the ground was like as it clearly wasn't suitable for horses, only ponies and not my 16hher
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Puppy

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We were specifically told for health and safety that our individual show must NOT go behind the other horses
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Despite which, the pony placed 3rd did just that - largely cause the rider couldn't pull it up in time...
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Starbucks

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[ QUOTE ]
Never even knew that...learn somat every day on here!

Ironic though, I can see pehaps why you shouldnt do it, maybe its so you dont upset/unsettle the other horses with thundering hooves cantering behind them....but is that not what happens out on the hunting field? they should beable to stand quietly and have mannor while others are shifting about...ok rant over, its a shame she knocked you just because of that...I'll get of my soapbox now

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I didn't think of it like that!! Good point!!
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Starbucks

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[ QUOTE ]
We were specifically told for health and safety that our individual show must NOT go behind the other horses Despite which, the pony placed 3rd did just that - largely cause the rider couldn't pull it up in time...

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I wish my judge had told me that!!
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cavalo branco

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Small shows are a joke really - I avoid them because its such a hollow victory if you do get placed and you have to contend with tiny SJ rings designed for 12.2hhs, mad people in the warm-up, rutted ground, judges who probably never ride and who can't even put up a course of jumps.
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I think that they should state in the schedule what the judges will be giving marks for(where its a non-specific class!)
 

spottybotty

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I don`t think Extended canter/gallop behind the line up is a health and safety issue, from a judging perspective it is just more difficult to see the horse when you have a row of horses inbetween you and the competitor.
 

Puppy

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OK, so do you guys think that Believe would be suited to such a class... More so than a 31 year old 14hher, that knocked down fences & was in a gag
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These jumping ones aren't from on the day, (can't get them on PB right now! grr!) but are from showjumping at a show two weeks ago, & the first is from the end of July & gives you an idea of her conformation, and current condition...

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She is 16hh, 7 years old, ridden in a snaffle and jumped the 6 fences with huge clearance, despite the awful ground.

*Personally*, I think she is the type for this class
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I am perfectly prepared for people to disagree.
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However, I know I'm not alone in my view as I mentioned to the judge when she asked after handing me my rosette "Has she done much?" - Believe was placed 4th in the 4 year old, young performance horse class at the East of England County show
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The judges face when I said that was a picture!
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Her old owners gave me a dvd of her past achievements which included this. Can you imagine my shock when I sat down to watch it and the judge who placed her fourth there was the former international showjumped & now renowned sports horse breeder, who I used to groom for and help on the yard for lessons etc when I was younger!!
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Clearly SHE taught me to have similar taste in horses to her
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and clearly the judge from the weekend thinks otherwise!!
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Ahh, guess this is why I don't "do" showing
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Puppy

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May I ask why not??

This is why I've posted, as I'm really wondering what it means to different people. Be has been placed in "performance horse" at county level, and last summer at a different riding club show, she was placed 3rd in such a class. But at the weekend she was placed below the old pony that was knocking fences down
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I mean, is if possible to define? Or different for different people? Surely the schedule should be more specific???

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Kenzo

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She is beautiful lady and by the sounds of things no doubt looked more like a PH than perhaps the others that you were up against, height...jumping...experiance etc

But I would not say that she is what I'd picture as a 'performace horse' so if indeed you were competeing against a ring of performance horses true to their type in every way..a strong class, then I would have to say that she would look out of place...but thats just me and my idea on the type.

However she is lovely, I'd certainly be proud of her! plus I can see where your argument is too, it really depends on the rest of the class though but yes I'm sure she fitted the bill more than the other by what you have said.
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Puppy

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This is my question - what do people consider the "type" to be?
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It seems so subjective!!
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I really don't "get" showing


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Sorry if I don't reply from now on till later, leaving for the yard in a sec
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toffeesmarty

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She looks like a nice working hunter or riding club horse type to me.Agree she's not true performance.
Did you ask to see your marks? In performance you should be marked for the style and standard of jumping (ie- jumping clear, refusals,etc), confirmation when stripped and how she performs iin ride both individually in your show and when with others in ring.
 

AmyMay

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I would actually say she was more of a riding horse type (if she were carrying a less weight).

It may well be that she was being placed as a performance horse at county level due to to the professionalism of her production, and the expertise of the jockey.

Essentially the definition of a performance horse is an equine athlete, such as a racehorse or a show jumper.
 

only_me

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sorry, i wouldnt class her as a performance horse either
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she dosent quite fit my idea of a performance horse. but even if you jumped clear your show may not have been good enough, so the 4 year old who had 2 down may have given a good show for its age.

she seems more of a riding club horse to me
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a performance horse to me should be fit and trim, and go in an outline etc. also style in a performance class should matter a lot - i would place a 4 year old higher than a clear IF it had a good technique over fences and it knocked 2 down due to rider/too small/babyish mistakes. performance also depends on "suitablility" for the chosen disiclpline it competes in.

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just my opinion anyways
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Foxford

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No offence intended, and I'm by no means a showing expert! But, were you both correctly turned out for the class? I say this purely because she may well have marked you down for this considerably. It might be a judges personal bugbear!
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Starbucks

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[ QUOTE ]
This is my question - what do people consider the "type" to be?

It seems so subjective!! I really don't "get" showing


[/ QUOTE ]

I wonder if the judge was looking for more of an eventer type - so something finer. Be is very much the chunky WB type isn't she, but then she is bred to SJ - so does that not count as performance?
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I'm thinking from your OP that maybe you didn't plait up?? I reckon this might be why you came lower down the line TBH. Showing peeps like thatsort of thing don't they!!

I wouldn't bother about it too much TBH pups, I think those classes are a bit of a load of rubbish anyway - if you've got a performance horse then it should be out performing!!
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I don't mean you - I know you're just having a bit of fun and getting things together - but in general I mean!
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