Dectomax. Laminitis Risk?

[Orca]

I've read second hand anecdotal evidence of a link between Dectomax and Laminitis. Can anyone please provide any further information or thoughts on the matter?

(My vet has agreed that fipronil treatments for feather mite are the safest way forwards for Orca.)

 

[Leo Walker]

Dectomax is ivermectin so I cant imagine there is a risk? I've used Fipronil but havent found it to be a long lasting treatment, whereas I had the 2 dectomax injections and they cleared. They did come back when he was living out with untreated horses, but again, 2 jabs and a yard move and no issue since

 

[Orca]

Thanks Frankie

I think Dectomax is Doramectin, which is an Avermectin just as Ivermectin is but that Doramectin is more potent/ longer lasting? (Gleaned from sheep boards!).

I know that wormers (and other drugs) can occasionally bring on acute lami. During our discussion, my vet said that in horses already at risk, plus the method of administration (effectively a double dose albeit over a few weeks), it is possible that administering Decto could exacerbate the risk (possibly beyond the risk of other wormers). This makes sense to me (Orca arrived overweight, hence us deciding not to consider it yet!), so I was interested in finding out whether that theory applies in the stories of horses which have gone down after receiving it.

It's good to hear positive experiences though because if Fipronil does fail her, we will have to consider Dectomax once her weight is under control. She's six and we believe that she's had a life-long infestation (...If I knew how to do an angry face, I would). It's about time she was relieved of it!

 

[Leo Walker]

When I was a teenager we used to routinely get the vet to do a "wormer jab" for a tenner when they did the vaccinations. We knew it was off licence but no one ever bother about that. Having done fipronil combined with an ivermectin wormer, as well as other stuff, that really didnt work, Id go for the jabs and then worry if it doesn't work!

 

[Orca]

When I was a teenager we used to routinely get the vet to do a "wormer jab" for a tenner when they did the vaccinations. We knew it was off licence but no one ever bother about that. Having done fipronil combined with an ivermectin wormer, as well as other stuff, that really didnt work, Id go for the jabs and then worry if it doesn't work!

I was going to say "What surprises me most about that, is how cheap IM wormers still are!". Then thought that might seem like I'm alluding rudely to your age ...so I'll rephrase - "Gosh Frankie! You must be young. It's a similar price now!".

 

[shergar]

A vet told my friend to use 2 ivermectin wormers 14 days apart as the mites have a 7 to 11 day breeding cycle,so kill the adults , and then any that hatch before they get chance to lay eggs. So may be more about timing than any thing else.

 

[Leo Walker]

I was going to say "What surprises me most about that, is how cheap IM wormers still are!". Then thought that might seem like I'm alluding rudely to your age ...so I'll rephrase - "Gosh Frankie! You must be young. It's a similar price now!".

:lol: I'm closer to 40 than I'd like, which seems very odd to me as I am still no where near to being a grown up!

 

[Alec Swan]

We've used Dectomax as part of a feather-mite programme, without any ill effect. We've also found that it's worked. I've administered jabs 3 weeks apart and for a cycle of 3 separate injections.

I suspect that it's just scaremongering, though with sustained use, I suppose that just about anything's possible.

Alec.

 

[Orca]

A vet told my friend to use 2 ivermectin wormers 14 days apart as the mites have a 7 to 11 day breeding cycle,so kill the adults , and then any that hatch before they get chance to lay eggs. So may be more about timing than any thing else.

Thanks Shergar!

:lol: I'm closer to 40 than I'd like, which seems very odd to me as I am still no where near to being a grown up!

I can completely relate to this ��

 

[paddy555]

as dectomax is not licensed for use with horses I am not sure where you will find studies to prove it is safe from a lami POV.

I asked to use dectomax on 2 liveries several years ago. My vet who is older and has a lot of horse experience was not familiar with it and rang the manufacturers. The vets advised against it's use on horses. I would never inject a horse with a product my vet was not happy about using.

I am also aware of a youngish horse who got laminitis recently after the first dectomax injection. The vets finally conceded that was the reason. There was no other reason for it to get lami.

As far as I can see it is up to the owner to decide to take the risk. For me it would just be an exceedingly stupid thing to do with a laminitis risk.

OP rather than asking for thoughts on the matter perhaps the question should be can anyone come up with scientific evidence where it has been proven safe for horses and does not cause laminitis.? I looked a while ago and cannot find anything to convince that it would be safe to use.

 

[ester]

I'm not aware of any evidence, but know plenty of cobs treated pretty regularly including my own without issue and it is used widely by many equine vets for mites, and does generally resolve the issue.

But, it is also known that wormers do/can affect them, it is not unusual for F to get a bruise related to that time. I guess like most things it is assessment of risk and whether it is a risk worth taking.

 

[Orca]

We've used Dectomax as part of a feather-mite programme, without any ill effect. We've also found that it's worked. I've administered jabs 3 weeks apart and for a cycle of 3 separate injections.

I suspect that it's just scaremongering, though with sustained use, I suppose that just about anything's possible.

Alec.

Thanks Alec. I hope it is just scaremongering but then, I have wondered why it hasn't been licenced for equine use? Given nothing else is, I would have thought it could be quite a money spinner!

as dectomax is not licensed for use with horses I am not sure where you will find studies to prove it is safe from a lami POV.

I asked to use dectomax on 2 liveries several years ago. My vet who is older and has a lot of horse experience was not familiar with it and rang the manufacturers. The vets advised against it's use on horses. I would never inject a horse with a product my vet was not happy about using.

I am also aware of a youngish horse who got laminitis recently after the first dectomax injection. The vets finally conceded that was the reason. There was no other reason for it to get lami.

As far as I can see it is up to the owner to decide to take the risk. For me it would just be an exceedingly stupid thing to do with a laminitis risk.

OP rather than asking for thoughts on the matter perhaps the question should be can anyone come up with scientific evidence where it has been proven safe for horses and does not cause laminitis.? I looked a while ago and cannot find anything to convince that it would be safe to use.

Interesting points and thank you for sharing your concerns. I asked for information and thoughts rather than evidence because like you, I've been unsuccessful in finding anything from a clinical pov which states its safe use in horses. As I said above, I can't help but wonder why it hasn't been licenced if it is safe for them. There's obviously a market for a sure fire (licenced) feather mite treatment!

I'm not aware of any evidence, but know plenty of cobs treated pretty regularly including my own without issue and it is used widely by many equine vets for mites, and does generally resolve the issue.

But, it is also known that wormers do/can affect them, it is not unusual for F to get a bruise related to that time. I guess like most things it is assessment of risk and whether it is a risk worth taking.

Thank you. I think, all told (given Orca's current fat pads and crest!), we have made the right decision for now. A family horse once had to be PTS following a shocking acute lami. She had zero warning signs, was sound, fit and healthy one day and went down the next. I believe fear of repetition is influencing my caution but I think it's sensible to give Fipronil a chance and take it from there ��.

 

[ycbm]

There is no point in them paying what would be a significant cost to test and licence it for use in horses. Vets are already routinely using it in horses, and being an injection only treatment, it's never going to be freely available over the counter (unless you are a 'farmer' buying it from your local agricultural merchant for use on your 'cows', which is already possible).

I wouldn't personally worm any laminitic risk horse with a systemic wormer that spreads throughout the body instead of going through the gut only. Moxidectin is also one, even though it is orally administered.

 

[paddy555]

Thank you. I think, all told (given Orca's current fat pads and crest!), we have made the right decision for now. A family horse once had to be PTS following a shocking acute lami. She had zero warning signs, was sound, fit and healthy one day and went down the next. I believe fear of repetition is influencing my caution but I think it's sensible to give Fipronil a chance and take it from there ��.

I had similar. One day fine, next day lami and 3 weeks later dead. (not from dectomax) IMHO any risk of laminitis is not to be messed with.

 

[paddy555]

I wouldn't personally worm any laminitic risk horse with a systemic wormer that spreads throughout the body instead of going through the gut only. Moxidectin is also one, even though it is orally administered.

if I understand you correctly (not disagreeing) what would you use as an alternative to moxidectin (equest) assuming febendazole resistance.