Deerhounds and osteosarcoma

[cariad]

Sadly my deerhound has just been diagnosed with osteosarcoma. It is something they are prone to, but you sort of don't think it will happen to you, do you?

She is seven and a half and still fine in herself. Chest x-rays are clear. There is however, no "cure". The simple option is pallaitive care until quality of life goes; prognosis of about 1-2 months average. Other end of the scale is amputation with chemo and radiotherapy, which isn't going to happen. It doesn't really give all that better a prognosis for what is involved (to say nothing of the cost!) and deerhounds are big dogs to only have 3 legs. I am discussing with the vet next week as to whether there are any "middle" options, to perhaps give a little longer without interfering too much.

Does anyone have any experience of this or can offer any advice - what to look for etc, is there anything I should be specifically doing/not doing? It is heartbreaking as she is a lovely dog (I know we all say that), but I have to be realistic.

I was thinking of getting another anyway, as she is too old to breed from (which I should have done) as she is quite middle aged for a deerhound, but this came out of the blue, literally within a week. However, having seen a litter advertised yesterday at £9500.00 each, perhaps I'll be looking at another lurcher after all!

Many thanks for any advice.

C.

 

[Errin Paddywack]

My BIL's son's deerhound had this. He was in a lot of pain and was put down as soon as it was diagnosed. So many greyhound get it too, such a shame.

 

[cbmcts]

I'm so sorry. FWIW I think you are right not to go down the amputation route, I've seen far to many dogs be PTS after surgery, despite chemo and all the treatment available before the hair even starts to grow back on the stump.

Steroids and heavy duty painkillers can be given as palliative care but be aware that a tumour is growing rapidly within the bone and it is painful. Some dogs are so stoic and mask the pain far to well and you really do not want an emergency PTS with a dog in agony because the bone crumbles and fractures with no warning. I've been there and it was horrific. After 30 years with Rottweilers, I'm sad to say that I now PTS on diagnosis, it's such a horrible disease.

 

[cariad]

Thank you. I am keeping a very close eye on her, but you really would not know there was anything wrong with her at the moment. She is still literally trotting round the garden and down to the stables, playing splat the Jack with the terrier puppy and took off with the lurcher at full pelt up the field when they saw something invisible to the human eye, but which needed chasing! I'll not let her do that again. She is weight bearing on the leg. It was only that we noticed a lump on Good Friday, took her to the vet thinking it was possibly an abscess or perhaps an infected thorn or something, so I was speechless at the diagnosis, confirmed by x-ray on Wednesday.

I know it is something which spreads rapidly and the first signs of any suffering, I will make the call. She is with us 24 hours a day as I work at home. We have painkillers and stronger painkillers, but I'm kind of thinking if she's got to the stage where she needs the stronger ones, it's time to call it a day.

I'll watch out for that. That would be awful. It's that balance between giving them the longest time you can without suffering. Plus, I admit, there is an element of me having to get my head round it. It's always a horrible time, however they go, even it's just old age after a long and happy life. Price you pay, I suppose.

 

[brighteyes]

I am so sorry to read this. Pragmatics are valid and the treatment, IMHO no in the best intertest of the dog in the vast majority of cases. It's hard on you and so blooming unfair...

 

[Cortez]

I have had Irish Wolfhounds with this, and also put down very quickly, rather than wait for the dog to suffer. The big breeds are seldom long lived, part of the reason I won't have another.

 

[honetpot]

My last lurcher had a bit of deerhound in him, and he had cancer in is shoulder. He suddenly stopped jumping on the bed, and from first being lame and being PTS was a week. I am sorry to be so blunt, but I would say your goodbyes as quickly as possible. Mine went in just for an X-ray, but his pain was so uncontrollable, even with morphine once they examined him, he was PTS. It was a huge shock.

 

[GSD Woman]

Cariad,

I'm so sorry for you but I honestly think you are making the correct choice. The veterinary practice I worked for had a client who's wolfhound was diagnosed with osteosarcoma. The client chose to euthanize. She said that she recently lost an uncle to the disease and at the end he was begging them to kill him because the pain was so bad.

 

[satinbaze]

My first flatcoat was diagnosed with bone cancer in her shoulder. I was offered a bone biopsy to confirm diagnosis and amputation. I did not do either as Inca hated going to the vets and would not have coped with only 3 legs. She became sound with painkillers (her presenting symptom was lameness) she lasted 2 years on rimidyl only so I feel that the initial diagnosis was probably incorrect. I realise this is a very unusual story and I hope your boy continues to have a good quality of life

 

[Umbongo]

So sorry to hear this. Osteosarcomas are very painful, and can suddenly fracture. Most dogs I have seen diagnosed with it are euthanised under sedation during the initial xrays.

 

[laura_nash]

I'm so sorry. Our greyhound had this, diagnosed when she was being scanned after an unrelated injury, there were no symptoms. She wasn't in any pain from it so we chose to wait. About a year later it spread to her spine and unfortunately that one grew very rapidly and she lost control of her back legs, they were just thrashing around and she was quite distressed. She recovered after about 10 mins but we had her PTS that day when the spread to her spine was found. She was fairly old for a greyhound, 13 years.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Fwiw I think you have made the best decision *for the dog*. When my Rott was diagnosed with a splenic tumour, the vet confirmed my feeling that chemo was not the way forward for a dog, who doesn't understand what is happening. Like Cortez, I won't have another giant breed, unless it finds us - so not a puppy.

 

[Bellasophia]

So sorry for your family and your deerhound...reading through the replies,each and every one have said exactly my thoughts..when your dog is no longer weight bearing and showing pain,let her go with her dignity.
My own father,with prostate cancer,one day stood up and simply fell over...his femur had snapped..we were told his cancer had gone into his bones.He had two months of extreme pain...had he been my dog I could have helped him better.
Even chemo ,in this situation,will give a few months,no more.I would not prolong this if it were me....
Give your dog her sunny days,her trips to the horses,whatever,but it’s a one way journey and you are in the driving seat.Make the stop when you’ve still got a beautiful view. All the very best to you, stay strong.

 

[splashgirl45]

so sorry, deerhounds are my favourite dog and i did have one when i was younger and lost her at 9, that made me decide i wouldnt have another large breed. amputation would not have been my choice either, .hugs xx

 

[misst]

I'm so sorry for you and her. No advice but didn't want to read and run. I am sure you are right about large dogs and 3 legs - there's a lovely big lurcher round here with 3 legs (front missing) and it never looks comfortable - though that is just a subjective view of someone who doesn't know the dog. Hugs x

 

[cariad]

Many thanks to everyone who has replied and the kind remarks. It seems more widespread than I'd thought, so I don't feel quite so "singled out". I think it's been made worse because I've had lurchers, greyhounds and terriers for nearly 50 years and with the exception of one lurcher who had a stroke at 16, the others have all gone on to over 17! Which is pretty amazing really, but then when you lose one at 7, it doesn't seem any time at all. There'll be no amputation, no. It is her hind leg and I think hinds are worse than forelegs for that anyway. If she was a young, lightweight dog, say a whippet or terrier or something, I might have considered it, but she isn't. She was only sedated for the x-ray, so it wasn't a case of not bringing her round from a GA, plus I think she'is still ok for a little while.

Satinbaze, wouldn't it be wonderful if it was a wrong diagnosis, another 2 years would do me, but I don't think so. I was offered a biopsy as well, but declined as the x-ray and the other pointers combined seemed conclusive. I might ask about rimadyl though; got nothing to lose. There's a couple of you said you wouldn't have big dogs again because of this or the age thing, but the thing is, they are such lovely dogs. I had people crossing the street to come and cuddle mine, all of which she thought was great, she just loves people. She went as a "model" to be groomed at a college on the dog grooming course and everyone said she was the most patient dog they'd had. So do I get another in the knowledge I might go through this again? Or do I just think that's the trade off for having a wonderful dog for a relatively short time? I mean, awful things can happen to any dog at any time really.

Pearlsasinger says she's won't have another unless it finds them. I am firm believer in this. I have a new JR puppy which I wasn't looking for; lost my last one last October (at 17!) but this one came through a friend of a friend. She is a total delight. It could be said that my deerhound found me as well. I went to look at a litter and she was also there for sale, 6 months old. One look and she was in the car!

Stocking up on dog treats for her and her favourite rich tea biscuits!

 

[Moobli]

I am so sorry. I hope you have some quality time left together.

 

[Prancerpoos]

So sorry, that‘s an awful diagnosis to hear. My retriever had it aged 8 and, on reflection, I kept her going too long. It was heartbreaking and even with loads of painkillers I suspect she was actually in a lot of pain. I feel like a terrible mum looking back and have vowed that if I ever have another dog with same cancer then I would have it PTS on diagnosis.

It‘s an awful disease, again, I feel so bad for you.

 

[splashgirl45]

its such a shame but hope you get to keep her for a while. when i have seen amputations on the tv they all say the dog carries most of its weight on the front legs and losing a hind leg is easier for them, im not so sure,..my last lurcher was only 21ins to the shoulder and if she had the same problem i would never have had the leg off, she had arthritis in her hips and a lump on her spine so i really had no choice as pain relief didnt make her comfy. she was almost 13 and the youngest i have ever lost. i have a collie cross who is almost 15 and she wont have any invasive treatment if things go wrong. i have 2 terriers and the second one fell into my lap as well, she is just 9 months . the other terrier is 3 1/2 and they have great fun together and it lets the oldie sleep..

 

[cariad]

I genuinely don't think mine is in pain at the moment PP, which is why I am watching her so closely for ANY change. It is difficult with deerhounds, as they are so laid back anyway. She is still getting up to go out, eating, drinking, strolling down to the yard, riding in the car and weight bearing, but I know that can be just them being stoical. We're all wise with hindsight when it comes to what we should do and when we should do it and I'm sure you did what you thought was right, even if you wouldn't make the same decision now in the same situation. It is a bloody awful thing though, you're right.

That's interesting about the front/back legs (still not doing it though!). I got told the opposite. Perhaps it depends on the size of dog. 13 and 15 are very good ages; it's the fact that she's only seven -and a half- but that is not a young dog for deerhounds. I did know the prettiest rescue lurcher, she was almost white she was so pale, saluki cross, so very slender and delicate and she had a front leg removed due to having it very badly broken and not treated. The vet said it was more trouble to her than it was worth, so that was amputated and she was absolutely fine on 3 legs.

Without wishing to be flippant in the least, I do feel so sorry for the poor Queen at the moment. Here we are talking about dogs we've had 7, 8, 10, 15 etc years and how bereft we are when they go. She'd been with Prince Philip 73 years! I cannot imagine how that feels. I've not been ALIVE that long. Such a great loss.

 

[Birker2020]

My own father,with prostate cancer,one day stood up and simply fell over...his femur had snapped..we were told his cancer had gone into his bones.He had two months of extreme pain...had he been my dog I could have helped him better.
.

my Dad had this and kept saying 'I wish I would die'. It shameful that we can pts animals but not humans.

I'm sorry about your dog OP, thinking of you in this horrible predicament.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

Pearlsasinger says she's won't have another unless it finds them. I am firm believer in this.

We have had 3 Rottweilers, after many Labs and a few other breeds, inc JRT's. The 1st one found us, she was a lovely dog, very small for a Rott, and was pts aged 9 with liver cancer which is thought to have originated in the spleen. I wasn't sure about having more, I am used to dogs living to be at least 12!
However I was persuaded, we chose 2 pups when they were 3 weeks old. One was pts aged 6, the other has been to the vet's this morning, aged 9 and diagnosed with UTI, without a raised temp. I am not so sure. We will see. They are fabulous dogs and I would give one that needed it a home but am definitely not ordering a pup. I should add that I did have to pts a brown Lab aged 18 months, because of lymphoma, so it isn't just big dogs that get cancer but the giants seem to be more prone to it.

 

[Bellasophia]

Thinking of you and your dog today Pearls...hope it’s good news and and easy fix with some antibiotics.

 

[cariad]

Gosh, what bad luck PaS. Hope it's just an antibiotic thing today. Yes, it is a known thing with deerhounds and other large breeds. The debate on whether we should be able to put people to sleep with dignity, or put ourselves to sleep when we've had enough would keep a football stadium of people (when we had such things) occupied until Christmas and we'd still not come up with any agreement or answer.

Thanks for everyone's good wishes on here.