Definition of scopey....

[KatB]

What do people think is a good indication of a scopey horse? Is it one that makes a nice shape over the fence, or one that can jump massive but look like a camel!? I wouldnt consider my boy as "scopey" (prob cos never really thought about it) but he makes a fab shape over a fence... people opinions please!?

 

[severnmiles]

I think he looks 'scopey' in the pic in your siggy.

 

[Bossanova]

Ah now this is something I've been thinking about recently so shall be interested to hear what others say!!
For me its about feel- it's not about how much room a horse gives a fence in my book, its about how easy that height feels for them. Not easy to explain.....
Boss for example- easily jumps 1.25 tracks (well, did) and found 2* xc very easy yet I wouldnt say he is scopey, more just that he tries hard and puts his all into it (well, did)
Moon on the other hand has only jumped 1.25 on the odd occaision and either through a grid or over a single fence but the feel she gives me takes my breath away. Not because she's over-jumped or what have you, just because of how athletic she is and how good she is with her back end.

 

[Rambo]

Hmmm...I think it's more about the way the horse uses itself over a fence...the shape it makes is a part of it, but also the action behind, and it's ability to get out of trouble / go from anywhere too.

Very good question though

 

[JessPickle]

See I have also always thought this

Pickle isnt scopey, he just tries very very hard. And does suceed at jumping a decent height, but its hard for him.
While beths horse henry is a very scopey horse, he makes most heights feel effortless, and even when he takes off from a distance it feels easy. He never over jumps at all always jumps at the height he jump is (unless there is something "scary" as a filler" He makes it look completely effortless I think that what a scopey horse is, a horse that makes jumping look effortless

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Ah now this is something I've been thinking about recently so shall be interested to hear what others say!!
For me its about feel- it's not about how much room a horse gives a fence in my book, its about how easy that height feels for them. Not easy to explain.....
Boss for example- easily jumps 1.25 tracks (well, did) and found 2* xc very easy yet I wouldnt say he is scopey, more just that he tries hard and puts his all into it (well, did)
Moon on the other hand has only jumped 1.25 on the odd occaision and either through a grid or over a single fence but the feel she gives me takes my breath away. Not because she's over-jumped or what have you, just because of how athletic she is and how good she is with her back end.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree, for a scopey jumper, its effortless. If you could describe singers as scopey then I'd call Leona scopey!

 

[Law]

I'd say it's the shape it makes over a fence, really basculeing (sp?) and being economical with it's legs, ie tucking front and rear in and up!
Just my useless opinion!

 

[Rambo]

That's a very good point Boss...'feel' is very important too

Scope is also a relative thing too of course.

Bo is often described as scopey when people (good BSJA instructors) see him jump...yet I don't get the feeling that he is particularly. Sure he will jump 1.50m or more, and he'll do it athletically, but i wouldn't say it ever feels particularly easy

Trike on the other hand gives you the most amazing feeling over a fence...it's like going over a hump backed bridge at speed lol!

 

[Tia]

Yes I totally agree with Boss's thinking. That's how I see scopey too.

 

[madhector]

definatly isnt how much the horse clears the fence but how easy it is for the horse to jump that hieght, is about it feeling effortless

 

[sallyf]

I agree with Boss on this one its about feel.
Some horses just give you the feeling that you could just go and jump anything.
They are the scopey ones.

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd say it's the shape it makes over a fence, really basculeing (sp?) and being economical with it's legs, ie tucking front and rear in and up!
Just my useless opinion!

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, generally speaking, the most 'scopey' horses are the ones that don't tuck up particularly well as they don't have to...particularly behind. Many SJ'ers look for a horse that opens up behind over a fence

Example:

 

[severnmiles]

So if a horse makes 1m 'feel' scopey yet falls flat at 1m20 how do you describe it?

If Moon is giving a feeling of being scopey over 1m25 but struggles with 1m35 (not that she will) do you still describe her as scopey?

Where is the stop off point?

 

[mrdarcy]

There's also a difference between a horse that looks 'scopey' when being loose jumped and one that remains 'scopey' under saddle. They're not always the same thing.

To me a scopey horse is one with unlimited ability - i.e. capable of jumping anything you point it at without looking like it's hard work.

A careful horse isn't necessarily scopey and a scopey horse isn't necessarily careful but to have a careful scopey horse is the best combination you could wish for

 

[FMM]

I have only ridden two horses in my life which I would have called scopey. They just gave a feeling over a fence with that extra moment of "suspension" (for want of a better word" which they gave no matter the height of the fence. Other horses I have jumped over the same height, and they just cleared the fence.

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
There's also a difference between a horse that looks 'scopey' when being loose jumped and one that remains 'scopey' under saddle. They're not always the same thing.

To me a scopey horse is one with unlimited ability - i.e. capable of jumping anything you point it at without looking like it's hard work.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Badminton horses are surely classed as scopey, yet they have stop off points, I doubt many could jump a GP course. Does that makes them less scopey?

Scrooge....you've started something now

 

[Rambo]

This just gets better and better......and harder to answer

 

[Bossanova]

[ QUOTE ]
So if a horse makes 1m 'feel' scopey yet falls flat at 1m20 how do you describe it?

If Moon is giving a feeling of being scopey over 1m25 but struggles with 1m35 (not that she will) do you still describe her as scopey?

Where is the stop off point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Luckily as an eventer, she'll rarely have to go over 1.25

I see your point, every horse has a height limit but I think that if youre riding something scopey the trick is not to over-face it and always work within its limits. If you could tell from day 1 then more people would have amazing sjers I'm guessing

 

[severnmiles]

But that doesn't answer my question

If a horse is 'scopey' (as you rightly described the word) over 1m but struggled at 1m20 how would you describe it?

Moon as you say gives you a serious feeling over 1m25, I know she'll hardly have to go over about 1m30 but because she doesn't show the same ease over 1m40 its surely not fair to say she isn't scopey when she shows so much over 1m25...do you understand me? I'm confusing at the best of times I know...I think Rambo understands me!

 

[severnmiles]

P.s I'm not saying she couldn't fly 1m40 just using the lovely lady as an example!

 

[Rambo]

I think I understand you, but also have another thought to throw in...

Does scope have to be measured by the height a horse jumps

Surely a scopey horse must be able to jump width as well, and some may be able to stretch that bit further than others rather than go that bit higher than others.

The counter argument would be can a horse that jumps a 7'4" wall be described as not being scopey

I would say yes ! It's more about the 'way' the horse jumps than 'what' the horse jumps for me

 

[sammys ma]

Katie,

would you describe the Bob as being "Scopey", in the sense, that he's a little hairy cob, but can jump anything he's faced at and makes it look easy?

 

[Bossanova]

Shhh I was trying to avoid the question!!!
Ok so maybe a truely scopey horse should be able to jump 4'6 and make it feel good. I think failing at 1.20 wouldnt be a scopey horse as that should be well within most semi-talented horses.
Good enough....

 

[severnmiles]

"Does scope have to be measured by the height a horse jumps"

Thats my main point! But most people have said a scopey horse gives you the feeling that it can jump ANYTHING.

"I would say yes ! It's more about the 'way' the horse jumps than 'what' the horse jumps for me"

Me too

 

[lucemoose]

ive always thought its the way the horse jumps, and the feel it gives its rider?
but then the height is pretty valid too!!

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Shhh I was trying to avoid the question!!!
Ok so maybe a truely scopey horse should be able to jump 4'6 and make it feel good. I think failing at 1.20 wouldnt be a scopey horse as that should be well within most semi-talented horses.
Good enough....

[/ QUOTE ]

Hehe

Sorry. I still think its more to do with feeling and style than height!

 

[Bossanova]

Maybe but like you say, you cant really call a consistant 1m horse that cant jump a newcomers scopey as there obviously isnt more 'scope' to go further....

 

[harrihjc]

I think its more to do with the way a horse jumps and the feelign than the actual height. Some can somehow jump quite high but in no great style and it looks a real effort. Also, if going by height the horse can jump the height of the horse effects it too surely??

 

[FMM]

Also, a horse that knocks out a stride before a a biggish fence just for the fun of it ...

 

[severnmiles]

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe but like you say, you cant really call a consistant 1m horse that cant jump a newcomers scopey as there obviously isnt more 'scope' to go further....

[/ QUOTE ]

Damn you...you've confused matters again...