Definition of scopey....

[Nickymac]

Doesn't it just!

So will a scopey horse always have a naturally good technique? Or will it not have to bother so much about the way it does it, as it finds it that easy to jump big fences without having to make the perfect shape and being mega-careful (assuming we're talking about fences that knock down)?

 

[Bossanova]

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Maybe but like you say, you cant really call a consistant 1m horse that cant jump a newcomers scopey as there obviously isnt more 'scope' to go further....

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Damn you...you've confused matters again...

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you started it!!!!

 

[Rambo]

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Maybe but like you say, you cant really call a consistant 1m horse that cant jump a newcomers scopey as there obviously isnt more 'scope' to go further....

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Damn you...you've confused matters again...

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Perhaps I can help you there severmiles

If we exclude confidence / mental attitude from the scope argument, surely a horse can jump in a scopey manner over a 1m track, but if it loses it's confidence at 1.10m then might go no further....unlikely I know but you get the point !? Why does 1m to 1.10m have to be the cut off.

I go back to my earlier point about a Puissance horse NOT necessarily being scopey

 

[sloulou]

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Maybe but like you say, you cant really call a consistant 1m horse that cant jump a newcomers scopey as there obviously isnt more 'scope' to go further....

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I would agree with that! I always think of horses not having 'scope to go further' as those that are not scopey - my old horse for example was very clever, careful and a good jumper - but would have had trouble at bigger heights - he didn't have the scope.

However - I think scopey has come to also mean the way a horse feels because so many people use it to describe the feeling you get as well as the height a horse can easily jump...

 

[Nickymac]

That's fun to a fence of a certain size, but darn scary at other, larger fences. I love a horse with that sense of humour and level of confidence though.

 

[icestationzebra]

Great question - you will have to stay at work all night to answer all of these Kat!!
For me scopey is lots of things - ability to jump decent sized fences in a nice shape whilst in balance - making it look and feel easy. The right mental attitude to remain unfazed and absolutely genuine and also and for me most important scopey is the ability to get out of trouble when going wrong. A lot of horses can jump decent heights when ridden beautifully by a pro but what about those who take your average rider to places they would otherwise never go.... what about those wonderful hunters you see taking on those massive hedges with ditches in front??? I'll go away now

 

[Lill]

Also i would think it to have some connection with the size/type of the horse/pony and its jumping ability....

 

[Emma123]

I agreee ISZ! I think the word is used for a number of different meanings

 

[KatB]

I dnt know!! Bob is incredibly talented for who he is, but never thought of anything as scopey....my thought of scopey is something that can carry on jumping all day no matter how hard the questio is, but whether that is down to technique, temperament or what, is the question!?

 

[sammys ma]

nope...It's a very confusing one, with so many areas to be considered....

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

 

[severnmiles]

In that case you're basing scope on height...

 

[Maesfen]

The old way of explaining - or trying to! - scope was that the horse made whatever it was doing, look completely effortless; be it jumping, hunting, racing, whatever.

Example: Desert Orchid and Pendil were full of scope; remember DO taking off outside the wings?

Example: Boomerang was scopey; whatever he jumped he did it easily if not flambouantly - I can't spell either!

There must be loads of others you can use as examples which are more up to date!

 

[severnmiles]

Supreme Rock? Arko? Primmores Pride? When PP jumps 4* he makes it look 3ft!

 

[brighteyes]

It's all in the 'ping' - the ease (and apparent lack of effort required) with which a horse or pony shows in clearing a fence with style. It's unmistakeable to see and it's almost as if they can't help doing it. It is usually closely linked with a good technique and a lightness that can't be manufactured. It's wholly natural.

 

[mrdarcy]

Here's another thing to throw in...

Is the scopiest showjumper scopier than the scopiest eventer?

Maybe yes because the biggest x-country fences tend to be jumps that can be taken at a decent pace and speed = propulsion and therefore is an aid to clearing the fence.

Whereas GP showjumpers have to jump huge fences generally at a much more collected speed. It's their self generated spring/power off the ground that gets them over the fence.

Bravery is another matter altogether.

 

[Maesfen]

How come you can explain it so clearly, it would have taken me all day to think that - but it's that exactly!!

 

[madhector]

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It's all in the 'ping' - the ease (and apparent lack of effort required) with which a horse or pony shows in clearing a fence with style. It's unmistakeable to see and it's almost as if they can't help doing it. It is usually closely linked with a good technique and a lightness that can't be manufactured. It's wholly natural.

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perfectly said!

 

[spooks]

Makes very interesting reading, scope isnt something i give much thought to but would you say this horse has scope is scopey.. he hadnt really done anything in his 8 years until we got him, but he finds jumping really easy and doesnt really respect anything under 3ft, but as his flatwork /balance needs to be worked on i dont let ash jump him any higher than 3ft to 3ft 3 courses at the moment. he has only done a couple that height although the last one was nearer 3ft 6 and he struggled due to lack of flatwork but found the height easy. he also jumps off any stride and gets himself and ash out of trouble.he has loose jumped 5ft 3 and apparently did it under saddle to but that was one fence not a course, i couldnt say if he would ever jump a course that height, daughter will be happy if she can get him round newcomers by the end of the year! dont worry about offending me with any comments, makes no difference to me,hes my daughters horse ! lol
these are around 4ft 2

some of him loose jumping

so , going by the comments already made,does this horse have scope or not?

 

[severnmiles]

What breed is he?

 

[Fiona]

I agree with Pat re Desert Orchid etc.

My def of scopey would be a horse who can take half a stride (or even a stride) out and still make a fence seem easy and effortless.

As an example, out hunting years ago we got a spin round the P to P fences. Ben my 14.2 welshie could jump these great if he hit on the right stride but I fell at one as he took off early, and was coming down shen he should still have been going up. Sophie makes a great shape over a fence, her bascule is superb, but she would rather shorten rather than lengthen into a fence so I wouldn't describe her as scopey either.
Flora has never jumped very big fences as is only a baby, but she can jump from any stride, the further away the bigger she jumps, and gives as massive feeling of power ie the back of the saddle hits you up the bum she works so hard with her back end. I would think IMO that this is scopey, but stand to be corrected.

Fiona

 

[spooks]

hes definately ID think the cross is TB...passport just says IDx

 

[severnmiles]

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hes definately ID think the cross is TB...passport just says IDx

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He's lovely!

 

[Hanz]

My idea of 'scopey' would be that the horse gives a fair amount of room under the fence, and jumps it without looking like a complete knob, i.e dosent have to put ALL his BEST effort into it.
This is my pony [small jump I know], I think this is scopey:

and my gelding:

 

[WishfulThinker]

To me scopey means that it can jump cleanly and athletically. With respect for the fences, but is also keen. Bascules (sp) over the fence, uses itself effectively and shows the promise that it could do more.

You get horses that can clear 5ft, but they looks strained over it - I wouldnt call that scopey.

Like in the dictionary : Scope means,Breadth or opportunity to function.

 

[dieseldog]

To me scopey is when you look at or sit on a horse and it makes you go WOW. Like the first time you saw Arko jump. I would say that my horse is scopey as he can jump a very big fence, jump him thru a double with a big wide spread coming out and then you go wow.

 

[Parkranger]

To me, a scopey jumper is one that will clear a fence, with room to spare and not break a sweat. I've only jumped one horse like this and it was just all so effortless. I can only describe the whole experience as 'big'!

I think scopey horses can be hard to sit to as they don't always have the best finesse and can take some jumps alot bigger than you're expecting......and always have room to spare.

 

[Rambo]

I'm continuing to read this thread with interest

I think what we are all saying is that you can't judge scope from a single, still image

I liked the description used above about the 'ping'...that is a very good analogy for me

All these words for me are valid :-

Ping
Power
Finesse
Flambuoyant
Suspension
Effortless
Wow


If I think of the horses over the years who have made an impact on me....and by definition I mean ones that I believe to be scopey (only talking SJ'ing at this point !) :-

Milton
Fire II
Galoubet
Arko II
Anglezarke
Lionel II
Baloubet de Rouet
Cavalor Cumano
Locarno
Eperlain de Fouquet

There are many more too i'm sure...

 

[dieseldog]

The definition of scopey will also change as you move thru the ranks. If I was jumping 2'6 all day I would think a horse that did 1m classes was scopey. But if I moved up to jumping 1.20 classes I would think a horse pinging 1.40 was scopey.

But a scopey horse isn't necessarily a good showjumper. We had a little horse that I watched do handstands around a 1.50 track (after we sold him) he was the most athletic, talented horse you would ever meet, but he was also completley wrong in the head, as long as you got him to a fence he wuold jump it off any stride, but you had to get him there and in between his bucking, squealing with excitement and napping it wasn't an easy job. If he had been given half the scope (talent) and twice the rideability he would have been a far better horse.

I would rather have a horse right in the head but with less jump than the scopiest horse in the world who knows it and can take the p*ss because of it.