DEFRA made a bad decision - National Equestrian Database

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PeterNatt

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I would suggest that it was a bad decision by DEFRA in removing funding from the national Equestrian database (www.nedonline.co.uk) at the end of last year, especially in light of the recent horse meat scandle were beef meet products have been substituted by horse meat.

The equestrian industry is the second largest land based industry and worth 7 Billion pounds per year to the British economy. (Horse racing is only second to football). In view of the current food crisis the government should compel DEFRA to re-instate the funding for the National Equestrian Database without delay so that there is one national database for all horses which would ensure the improved tracebility of horses.
 
Just the one bad decision? :)

Have to agree though, withdrawing funding has just made the whole issue of compulsory passporting and microchipping even more of a 'joke', although I did think the decision to charge to access it was wrong too. The cash we pay out for passports and microchipping should more than cover the cost of the database had the whole process been set up properly in the first place.
 
There's that old joke that sums DEFRA up perfectly:

A sheep farmer is tending his flock when an officious little man rolls up in his BMW, hops out and asks, "If I tell you exactly how many sheep you have, can I take one?" The farmer nods, so the man opens his laptop, calls up some satellite photos, runs some algorithms, and announces, "You have 1,432 sheep."
So the farmer says, "You're right. Go ahead and take one" and the man loads one of the animals into the backseat of the car. "Now," says the farmer, "I'll bet all my sheep against your car that I can tell you what you do for a living."
Convinced he'll make a killing, the suit agrees.
"You work for DEFRA" says the farmer.
"Wow!" says the man "How did you know?"
"Well," says the farmer, "you came and stuck your nose in when I never asked you to. You used a load of expensive equipment to tell me what I already knew. And you haven't a clue what a sheep looks like. Now give me back my dog."
 
LittleBlackMule said:
There's that old joke that sums DEFRA up perfectly:

A sheep farmer is tending his flock when an officious little man rolls up in his BMW, hops out and asks, "If I tell you exactly how many sheep you have, can I take one?" The farmer nods, so the man opens his laptop, calls up some satellite photos, runs some algorithms, and announces, "You have 1,432 sheep."
So the farmer says, "You're right. Go ahead and take one" and the man loads one of the animals into the backseat of the car. "Now," says the farmer, "I'll bet all my sheep against your car that I can tell you what you do for a living."
Convinced he'll make a killing, the suit agrees.
"You work for DEFRA" says the farmer.
"Wow!" says the man "How did you know?"
"Well," says the farmer, "you came and stuck your nose in when I never asked you to. You used a load of expensive equipment to tell me what I already knew. And you haven't a clue what a sheep looks like. Now give me back my dog."
Click to expand...

LMAO!!!!! Haven't heard that one but it's a keeper.... :D:D:D:D:D:D
 
The whole passport fiasco has been a disgrace ! There are those of us who have played along, doing everything right..........and then far more who haven't bothered.

I drive though Bishop Aukland, near Darlington occasionally, and if a single one of the thousands of coloured cobs on the wasteland there has a passport, I'll knock myself out. Or perhaps they all share a few dodgy ones ? And where on earth are these ponies going to end up ?

Who was actually checking up on passports anyway ? No-one. Why did I pay out all that money to get a passport from a Gypsy Cob Society that then disappeared, and now (if i could be bothered) have to get re-done.

I see the whole thing as a way to make money for the Government, and a very ill-conceived way to know how horses are moving around the UK. And just when owners have got passports into their heads, Defra decide to walk away anyway.
 
What makes me so mad is what British farmers had to go through with their livestock, to make them legal, in order to be acceptable to the EU. So many excellent farmers went bust (and abbatoirs) and now British people are being supplied horsemeat, not even cow, from God knows where. I hope the NFU really gets it's teeth into this.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-records-SLAUGHTERED-March.html#axzz2KQPufLxp - this is sad.

Just out of curiosity, do you think there will become a need for permanent ID on all horses by law. Not ear tags, but maybe freeze branding ? I know micro-chipping is supposed to be in, but that is not a visible thing.
 
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Maesfen said:
Now is the time to set it up properly. One central agency only same as Weatherbys does for thoroughbreds. Breed societies just overstamp if necessary.
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This. NED was deeply flawed. I gave up on it when it wouldn't let me "associate" myself with my own horses because I put my postcode on my address and the licensing authorities had given NED my address without my postcode :rolleyes: As a result, they wouldn't let me tell them when two of my horses were euthanased :confused:

As for the PIA situation, that's a farce too. There are people at all the markets round here supplying passports for a fiver for all those unpassported animals which have been living out on mountains and bogs :confused:

Am I really the only person that's not in the least bit surprised at where all these horses have ended up?:confused:
 
^^^ Absolutely not. It breaks my heart that it was bloody Romania and France, and anywhere in between. We should stop exporting until we know what is going on. Mind you, that horse abbatoir in Cheshire was horrific.

Over breeding has to stop somehow.
 
LittleBlackMule said:
There's that old joke that sums DEFRA up perfectly:

A sheep farmer is tending his flock when an officious little man rolls up in his BMW, hops out and asks, "If I tell you exactly how many sheep you have, can I take one?" The farmer nods, so the man opens his laptop, calls up some satellite photos, runs some algorithms, and announces, "You have 1,432 sheep."
So the farmer says, "You're right. Go ahead and take one" and the man loads one of the animals into the backseat of the car. "Now," says the farmer, "I'll bet all my sheep against your car that I can tell you what you do for a living."
Convinced he'll make a killing, the suit agrees.
"You work for DEFRA" says the farmer.
"Wow!" says the man "How did you know?"
"Well," says the farmer, "you came and stuck your nose in when I never asked you to. You used a load of expensive equipment to tell me what I already knew. And you haven't a clue what a sheep looks like. Now give me back my dog."
Click to expand...

ha ha! Four legs!
 
Rowreach said:
This. NED was deeply flawed. I gave up on it when it wouldn't let me "associate" myself with my own horses because I put my postcode on my address and the licensing authorities had given NED my address without my postcode :rolleyes: As a result, they wouldn't let me tell them when two of my horses were euthanased :confused:

As for the PIA situation, that's a farce too. There are people at all the markets round here supplying passports for a fiver for all those unpassported animals which have been living out on mountains and bogs :confused:

Am I really the only person that's not in the least bit surprised at where all these horses have ended up?:confused:
Click to expand...

Nah you arent I think most of us are sitting here going "told you so". No one listened to us horse owners forced to have a passport. Today on Sky New some guy was blaming EU etc and not the government. Another lady ?Name? was saying its just a fraction of what we eat anyway!!Great...! I can see it will be abroad that will get the blame.Sooner we are out of the EU the better. I hope this bodes well for the British Farmers who are no doubt bogged down with bureaucracy anyway. As for NED there will always be plenty of bogus fraudulant passports the only way will probably be some kind of electronic passporting instead linked to the microchip. I can feel a bute ban coming along soon and it did help my boy with his arthritis so feel sad for anyone in the same situation. Crazy.
 
I am truly hoping that there will be something good to come out of this. As has been said the passport system is a total shambles and was never going to be anything else given the loose ends left dangling.

I feel that microchips are the way to go and all information entered to the chip. some sort of chip and pin system might work.

Watching with great interest.
 
Here you are classic example I had old boy put down last year on 3 bute sachets a day in last week. I offered my passport (I had it with me when he was PTS) ok I am 100% sure he was cremated BUT I still have my passport. I offered it and it sat in grass in a bag to keep it clean. BUT no one wanted it. It was never looked at or asked for.

Just say he was tinned up or shipped off and eaten.

Yes I paid the vet to chip him and another. Two passports. What a waste of money and time, even I can understand why some people didnt bother with them.

And we blame other countries for their ways we cant even manage our own. The governments distance themselves from any organisations and then they can blame someone else. Much easier to keep themselves clean.
 
indie999 said:
Here you are classic example I had old boy put down last year on 3 bute sachets a day in last week. I offered my passport (I had it with me when he was PTS) ok I am 100% sure he was cremated BUT I still have my passport. I offered it and it sat in grass in a bag to keep it clean. BUT no one wanted it. It was never looked at or asked for.

Just say he was tinned up or shipped off and eaten.

Yes I paid the vet to chip him and another. Two passports. What a waste of money and time, even I can understand why some people didnt bother with them.

And we blame other countries for their ways we cant even manage our own. The governments distance themselves from any organisations and then they can blame someone else. Much easier to keep themselves clean.
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I've had 2 PTS in recent years and still have their passports. This is one of the horrendous loose ends. IMO
 
Suelin said:
I've had 2 PTS in recent years and still have their passports. This is one of the horrendous loose ends. IMO
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A friend was thinking of sending her old mare off but rang Turners to ask if the passport could be returned to her as it had some famous signatures in it she'd like to keep. She was told in no way was that possible, the passport had to be surrendered with the horse. Funnily enough, mare showed an improvement and is still here, 3 years later.
 
The DEFRA joke is brilliant.
What is needed is a central passport issuing body with a single national database for every horse in the country (no exceptions whatsoever).
Only one microchipping system should be permitted and it must be the vets responsibility to submit details of the owners name and contact details to the central passport issuing body.

(As a second string to the bow I would strongly advise freezemarking your horses as anyone can read a freezemark)
 
PeterNatt said:
The DEFRA joke is brilliant.
What is needed is a central passport issuing body with a single national database for every horse in the country (no exceptions whatsoever).
Only one microchipping system should be permitted and it must be the vets responsibility to submit details of the owners name and contact details to the central passport issuing body.

(As a second string to the bow I would strongly advise freezemarking your horses as anyone can read a freezemark)
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I agree entirely.

I wrote to DEFRA on the subject of freezemarking, and pointed out that identification of any passported and chipped horse relied upon there being a chip scanner available, whereas a freezemarked horse could be immediately recognised by anyone looking for it. I said I'd happily have my horses freezemarked and passported, and would consider that to be better use of my hard-earned cash than would having them chipped, and that this would be my preference. I also pointed out that I had no intention of passporting any of my horses as long as the NED was in such a state and the PIAs weren't singing from the same sheet.

I never got a reply.

I don't have money to waste on useless paperwork. I have two ponies with passports (I bought them in), and one with a passport application completed, and four others without passports. None of them will find their way into the food chain.
 
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For the unscrupulous who dont passport big fine and if not paid immediate prison. No ifs or buts. No human rights nothing.

I had a horse freezemarked twice as he was too light....I could only ever see part of it in summer..faintly. But I would freezemark of course too.
 
LittleBlackMule said:
There's that old joke that sums DEFRA up perfectly:

A sheep farmer is tending his flock when an officious little man rolls up in his BMW, hops out and asks, "If I tell you exactly how many sheep you have, can I take one?" The farmer nods, so the man opens his laptop, calls up some satellite photos, runs some algorithms, and announces, "You have 1,432 sheep."
So the farmer says, "You're right. Go ahead and take one" and the man loads one of the animals into the backseat of the car. "Now," says the farmer, "I'll bet all my sheep against your car that I can tell you what you do for a living."
Convinced he'll make a killing, the suit agrees.
"You work for DEFRA" says the farmer.
"Wow!" says the man "How did you know?"
"Well," says the farmer, "you came and stuck your nose in when I never asked you to. You used a load of expensive equipment to tell me what I already knew. And you haven't a clue what a sheep looks like. Now give me back my dog."
Click to expand...

I've pinched this hope you don't mind
 
indie999 said:
Here you are classic example I had old boy put down last year on 3 bute sachets a day in last week. I offered my passport (I had it with me when he was PTS) ok I am 100% sure he was cremated BUT I still have my passport. I offered it and it sat in grass in a bag to keep it clean. BUT no one wanted it. It was never looked at or asked for.

Just say he was tinned up or shipped off and eaten.

Yes I paid the vet to chip him and another. Two passports. What a waste of money and time, even I can understand why some people didnt bother with them.

And we blame other countries for their ways we cant even manage our own. The governments distance themselves from any organisations and then they can blame someone else. Much easier to keep themselves clean.
Click to expand...

I very much doubt that he ended in the food chain. Horses need to be bled out and he obviously wasn't.

Most of this contaminated meat seems to have come from Eastern Europe and was processed on the continent.

it is an extremely rare occasion that I ever buy meat from a supermarket, just the odd chicken on offer from Morrisons.

I am not a butcher but can cut up any animal and if I couldn't tell the difference between what sort of animal it is then I would be ashamed.

Just shows something about the source of food - BUY BRITISH!!!!!!
 
I don't see how this would stop horses from Romania being used to make lasagne in France especially if major crime is being committed?

Whilst I agree the system is poor and the database should have remained improving it would cost more. I think people have forgotten how much opposition there was to passporting and its costs.

I found these two interesting debates on passports. It seems the ABRS was firmly in opposition.

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmstand/deleg11/st040708/40708s

02.htmhttp://hansard.millbanksystems.com/lords/2003/jun/02/horses

And news article:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3602165/Home-front.html

This type of opposition and political lobbying is why ultimately you get a watered down system that doesn't deliver the benefits that it intended.

The only way to deliver it properly would be for everyone who has a horse(s) to pay the true cost for it.
 
Sorry if this has been covered already elsewhere but when NED was first launched I believe its main purposes were supposed to be a resource to manage/prevent the spread of infectious disease in the national herd and, if I recall, there was talk of it being used to implement that "horse tax" At the time I don't think NED was well received in the equestrian community, it's interesting how we've all come to embrace it, and the passports ( I love that horses over here have passports, so many of my US friends have no idea who their horses are, even the ex racers).
 
The bit of this that every one is missing is Romania at present is an associate member oof the EU, they only observe the bits of legislation that suite them! Next year the whole ball game will move to Turkey as they become associate members!!!!
 
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