Delicate question (Slaughter/pts)

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niagaraduval

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After a heated discussion with my dad earlier involving the cull in Ireland, The majority of owners send their beloved horses to the meat man when they are no longer able to keep them (can't finance them, Injured,old horse etc..). I was outraged by this as it is just not in his nature to say such a thing (or even think it for that matter).
He said when horses are too old to serve their place in society they should be shipped out on a meat truck and be slaughtered to make sausages. Now, He always worked on a farm so this is obviously what happens to cattle, but a horse? A horse is just not bred to be slaughtered when it can no longer work. His reasoning was that it will end up dying anyway so you might as well get something from it.
I was so shocked to hear this I honestly thought he might have been a dodgy dealer or something.
In his eyes cattle serve the same purpose as horses, they are there to serve society and then once they are too old they should be killed for meat. I totally disagree with him 100%. Now, living in France, They do sell horse meat (Less and less is on the shelves though) and he has never eaten horse and he said he never will, not because it's a horse, but he simply chooses not to.
He couldn't stop stressing about how humanely it is done, I couldn't stress enough about how inhumane the transport and care was for the horses on a one way trip.
So all in all he came to the conclusion that slaughter houses for horses should be reopened in England, now being totally against horse slaughter (Although there is a major horse problem) I would personally be horrified to see slaughter houses opening in England, as horse slaughter is illegal in England and has been since about the 70s.
He later implied that owners who could no longer keep the horse sent it to the knackers yard to be humainly slaughtered (Live export over seas!!), and would send their horse for meat instead of putting it to sleep.
When I explained that it's wrong and that horse owners put their horses to sleep instead of on a meat truck, he said I was wrong.
He actually seemed to be surprised to hear that I would put my horse to sleep when his time came.
Am I missing something here or is it common for owners to put there trusty steeds on a meat truck when they no longer serve a purpose?
 
I'm sorry to say this to you, but I've read through your post, twice, and I can't quite understand where your argument is directed.

Do you believe that the slaughter of horses, for human consumption is wrong, or not?

I would also advise you that, though struggling, the equine slaughter industry, here in the UK, is not illegal. I know of two abattoirs which are still operating.

Alec.
 
According to him everyone sends their horse to slaughter when he is no longer useful and that owners slaughter rather then putting to sleep.
Sorry, It's probably not very well written I have a hard job expressing both mine and my dads views on the situation.
 
Whilst I find the conditions of transport for horses going to meat shocking, I find it difficult to understand your point of view, and where you're coming from?

Most people I know call the local Hunt out to pts their horses, in which case the horse meat goes for the hounds. If you're going to let them be eaten by animals, in the natural progression of life and death, then why should it be a problem for it to be slaughtered for human consumption?

All the horses I have known personally pts, bar one, were done by the local Hunt. The only one who couldn't be had had so much pain medication in the few hours previous to it, he couldn't be used for the hunt so was cremated, thereby polluting the atmosphere and giving nothing back to that natural cycle.

The only reason I wouldn't want my horse going to an abattoir is because I wouldn't want them transported whilst on their last legs. But, other than that, I don't see there is a problem AS LONG as the horse's welfare is considered and taken care of throughout.
 
teazle said:
Whilst I find the conditions of transport for horses going to meat shocking, I find it difficult to understand your point of view, and where you're coming from?

Most people I know call the local Hunt out to pts their horses, in which case the horse meat goes for the hounds. If you're going to let them be eaten by animals, in the natural progression of life and death, then why should it be a problem for it to be slaughtered for human consumption?

All the horses I have known personally pts, bar one, were done by the local Hunt. The only one who couldn't be had had so much pain medication in the few hours previous to it, he couldn't be used for the hunt so was cremated, thereby polluting the atmosphere and giving nothing back to that natural cycle.

The only reason I wouldn't want my horse going to an abattoir is because I wouldn't want them transported whilst on their last legs. But, other than that, I don't see there is a problem AS LONG as the horse's welfare is considered and taken care of throughout.
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couldn't agree more :)
 
As far as I understand it...

I would hazard a guess that more horses in the UK are euthinaised (and carcas not eaten by humans) than slaughtered for meat - although I'm sure that figure will vary if you do/don't include slaughtered for the hunt's consumption.

Some are slaughtered for meat once they have reached the end of their working life, the end of their comfortable retired life, or are not fit for purpose in one way or another. I believe there are 2-3 slaughterhouses who process equines in the UK; I'm certain its not illegal to do so.

Long distance live transport abroad doesn't make economic sense, from the UK, when we have slaughter houses locally, so that argument as a resident in the UK makes no sense.

I believe in France, they don't have the systems to euthnaise at home, so when the times comes it is normal for them to send the horse to a slaughterhouse - of which there are many around France.

I wouldn't want my animal being slaughtered for meat, that's just personal preference, but I can see why others would want theirs to be made use of at the end of their lives. I suppose it could be likened to being on the organ donor list, in that its making use of the body, which is no longer needed to be lived in. Add to that being paid rather than paying out 100s if not 1000s for euthinasia, disposal, etc.

Fair enough if its not your cup of tea... but its a bit silly to rule it out for everyone, IMO.
 
niagaraduval said:
According to him everyone sends their horse to slaughter when he is no longer useful and that owners slaughter rather then putting to sleep.
Sorry, It's probably not very well written I have a hard job expressing both mine and my dads views on the situation.
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I have a hard job finding what is wrong with that argument as long as the horse is humanely killed if the owner can no longer keep it for whatever reason.
We all can't keep them for life for one reason or another but nobody should be chastised for putting the horse's needs first even if you do think it's selfish that they need to get rid before they can get another in some cases. Better PTS than run the risk of being passed from pillar to post at the many markets it might find itself as it gradually becomes more decrepid. Would you want that for one of your old horses, I certainly wouldn't want it on my conscience?
If anything, it would be a great help to the horse population (and farmers in general) if more slaughterhouses did re-open for business which would stop so many poor horses having to travel long distances to either Turners or Potters. We do need more local ones but it's not going to happen due to the EU, DEFRA and H & S, plus cost among other things.
 
Sorry but I wouldn't want my horse sent to slaughter. Just think its wrong, and I'm sure will gets lots of people shouting at me. I also wouldn't send my dog off somewhere to be killed when his times comes, would rather be with my animals till the end if the need ever arises for them to be PTS.
 
I think i can kind of see what you are trying to say.

My personal beliefs are that i could not ever send my beloved horse away to be slaughtered, its just that i want to be with him till the very end and make sure i see it done, it wouldn't feel right to send my faithful friend away on his own his final journey to a strange place where they can undoubtedly sense/smell what is going on. I dont want to think of him being that scared. However once the animal has been pts at home i would not have a problem with him going to feed the hounds as it is just an empty shell once they are gone.

I don't like to think of any animal going for slaughter but is a fact of life, and so long as it is done in as humane a way as possible i dont have a problem with it really, i feel that this cull in Ireland is probably a neccesary evil, and is far better than the pain, neglect, cruelty and suffering a lot of these horses may go through if not pts. Also dont like the live transport of any animal.

Sending away to slaughter is just not how i'd deal with my own horses.
 
Perhaps I should add, that my horses always are put down at home by hunt staff when they are then fed to hounds. I am by their side the whole time when they are shot, I couldn't be anywhere else, it's the least I can do for them; I'll even help winch their body into the wagon afterwards then I will clear up the mess left and then I will bawl my eyes out because it hurts so much but I know at least I have done the right thing for them which is all that matters.
You have no money from the hunt, you just have the knowledge that you have contributed to them by way of supplying flesh. Turners, one of the big slaughterhouses is less than five mile away from me and there, I'd get paid for the carcase. I couldn't send one of mine there at all, it would be too callous for me but I totally understand why other people do as for many, it is their only option.
 
I understand your point but everyone I know who has had their horse taken by the hunt has said it has been dignified and very well organised.
In my personal opinion, I'd only ever like my horses in future PTS by the vets with me by their side and buried if possible...not always, I understand.
I'd never be able to send them for meat, the thought horrifies me.
But like I said, that's just my personal opinion and I'll never rule that out for other people nor criticise other peoples personal choices.
K x
 
I believe horses should be pts with their owners when their time is up rather than being sold to the meat man, I wouldn't send my cat to be slaughtered when she is old (Not that we slaughter cats). In my eyes horses just are not bred for meat so I don't understand why we should put them on meat trucks when their useful life is over, Cattle are bred for meat. Horses aren't.
When my boy's time comes I will have him PTS and that's my decision, I just don't think it's right to send them of to the knackers yard when they can no longer be ridden or serve a purpose.
The purpose of this post was to actually ask if anyone would actually put their horse on a meat truck when he has lived out his days and why they choose that particular decision.
I still firmly believe owners in general put their horses to sleep rather than putting them on meat trucks (Which is what my dad believes).
 
BTW - I don't have a problem with horses going to the hounds after they have been put to sleep, I just have a problem with sending their used horses off to the meat man once they can no longer be ridden.
I am also pro for the cull in Ireland as sad as it is.
 
I am sort of with quartz on this one as I do feel a close attachment to my horses and indeed all my animals/pets soI would not like my horse to go to a slaughter house or be fed to other animals or humans. However, I understand not everyone feels like that about their horse and can emotionally detach themselves more. We're not all the same after all so we all feel differently about our animals.

If i think about these things too much I get upset as I hate to see any healthy animal being PTS so cannot quite grasp when people do send these animals to slaughter. In an ideal world I would have acres and acres of land and save all the unwanted but, until I win the lottery that's not gonna happen!

I certainly though would prefer UK horses to be slaughtered in the UK than being shipped abroad.
 
There used to be a number of small dedicated horse slaughter houses in England, which provided an excellent service. As well as animals being taken to them, they came out and slaughtered old and injured animals at home. I know this because we used this service for our first horse when he broke his back. We are fortunate that our nearest one became a pet crematorium and retained the service of coming out to pts at home. In the old days they bought a lot at markets, took them home and assessed them, those thought good enough were given a chance, rebroken and often sold as riding horses and ponies, the ones with too poor conformation, too bonkers etc were put through the slaughter house and sold as meat. I can see little wrong with this and wish it continued today. The cull in Ireland seems to me the most sensible way forward for the animals. Our animals stay with us until the end of their lives and are shot at home, the shell is then no use to the animal and I have no interest in where it goes, mind you I have the same feelings about my own carcass when the time comes.
 
I don't think I could send them to the hunt either :( (I don't agree with hunting - don't shoot me! Just an opinion!!)
but yeah agreed with you, horses aren't meant for meat and once upon a time horses were our be all and end all, transport, livelihood, companions...we surely owe them something and if that something is to sit and stroke them and tell them we love them when their time is coming, so be it :)
(I don't mean this post to disagree with anyone's opinions this is just mine, I'm not being argumentative!!)
K x
 
Most of my horses at the end of their lifes have been put down by the local hunt and I have no problem with that for them to be fed to the hounds, a lot of other people don't have that choice or cann't afford for them to be put down at home or to be cremated. I'd rather them pts in this counrty even for meat, than shipped abroad. but who in their right mind wants to eat tough old horse meat, it's the young stock they go for. Old horses go for dog and cat meat like they have done for many years,couple of hundred or more and what's wrong with that:confused::confused:
 
niagaraduval said:
According to him everyone sends their horse to slaughter when he is no longer useful and that owners slaughter rather then putting to sleep.
Sorry, It's probably not very well written I have a hard job expressing both mine and my dads views on the situation.
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umm, what distinction are you making between "slaughter" and "put to sleep"?
both mean "kill", after all. i don't get it, or see what you were arguing about, really... sorry!

for me, it has to be done humanely, with minimum stress. that means me driving the horse to the hunt, and watching it done. i couldn't entrust this to ANYONE else, and i won't leave until i've seen it done. have heard of a hunt servant who used to promise to do it, and then sometimes send the horses to the sales. this came from a direct witness, btw, who lived there... so, don't trust anyone, ever. it's too huge a thing to risk.
i don't care what happens to my horses once they're dead, if there was an option of being paid for the carcass for the meat to go for human consumption, or for Pedigree Chum, i'd take it... but i pay the hunt to dispose of it.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong - but - you can have a horse PTS either by injection or by gun. You have a horse slaughtered by gun. There is no difference?

In fact, although its not the way I'd do it, I'm sure actually its less stressful for the horse (ignoring the transport issue but in the UK you could probably take them there yourself???) as the people who kill them do it day in, day out. Heard alot of horror stories about vets getting it wrong =[ xxxxx
 
Would I let my boy go on a meat truck to god knows where... NO
Would I let my boy go to the hunt....... I dont like the thought, but.... YES
If money was no object would I have a vet PTS and then Cremate.... YES.

So I guess my opinion is, that, no I would not allow him the stress of the travel, and being pushed about by people he does not know, not knowing how he was treated and then being ' pts' by whatever means by the meat man.

The meat man was commonaly used by farmers years ago because they animal were just that, a commodity, and also the option was only that.

Nowadays, we have more options, and I would like to think, our horses are more thought of as pets, even though the old farmers may have like to have the same options, sadly they had to ' dispatch' their animals by the meat man
 
Are options for ending the life of a horse different in France?

In the UK I have had one horse I took to the hunt, I admit I walked away before she was PTS, but I just couldn't bear to stay, one which was killed by gun at home by the huntsman and carcass taken away, and two who were killed by vet by injection, buried on our land. I have to say that once the animal is dead I don't care what happens to the body. I would be more worried about sending a live animal a long way off before it was PTS.
 
KellysHeroes said:
I don't think I could send them to the hunt either :( (I don't agree with hunting - don't shoot me! Just an opinion!!)

K x
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Sorry, that makes me laugh as we don't hunt live quarry now so there is nothing to be upset about or disagree with; they just give people a nice day out having fun on their horses, nothing to object about in that surely?
 
I would always have a horse put down, than on the back of a meat truck. Once dead however they get sent down to the local hunt kennels for the hounds. Although it might not be a nice thought, the horse is then serving a natural purpose, and has had its passing eased by being put to sleep pain free.

As for horse slaughter, well I think its totally disgusting. If I was ever to agree to it, I would have to see THE strictest measures in place, to the point that there is so much criteria most people wouldn't want to breed horses for slaughter. And don't get me started on the sodding french especially....just ARUGH.

As for the possible cull in ireland, i'm not sure where I lie on that one. On the one hand no horse deserves to suffer and should be put out of its pain in a kind way. However, part of me just wants to scoop them all up and shove them in our paddocks! (not sure my mum would approve). I think its a shame that not enough is being given to rehoming charities and such so we are able to avoid this situation intirely, I think governments should be looking into grants for that in the future, so this situation cannot arise. I'm sure this will never happen, but hey ho.
 
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