Denerving- ahhh

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Charliesmith

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My TB is 15 now bright as a button and enjoying life to th full.

Half the time, the other half he is lame on both front feet and is not a happy bunny at all. He basically has **** feet. meaning he is 1-2/10 lame from when he is shod for 2-3 weeks. Therefore i cant get him fit to compete realy, and we decided on advice of the vet that he was best off to go out and get on with things during this time, and while i have some sachets of bute for emergency days when he is very very bad he is not lame enough to merrit being on pain relief the whole time.

Hes had full xrays nerve blocks MRI etc and all they have been able to tell us is there is generalised soft tissue swelling in his feet :(. Its not narvicular though at least!

He wears aluminium shoes, with equigell fillers and wedges, costs me a small fortune to shoe and is shod every 4-5 weeks, which basucally mean in the worse months i only get a week out of him. He was a succesful showjumper and realy loved it, but unfortunately he hasnt been able to compete since last summer.

A new livery ahs recently moved to my yard whose horse has been denerved, she enjoys hacking him out, i am getting to the point where i would settle for hi just to be comfortable all the time and getting to do a bit of quiet work or schooling would be a bonus.

Would it be a good idea??
 
P.S just read a case study of a grand prix showjumper that was denerved in both front feet and still showjumping!!!This scares me a bit because i assumed you wouldnt jump a horse that cant feel its feet, and surely in competition if bute is illegal (although sadly its not now) then denerving should be illegal, its just a way to take the edge of pain at the end of the day!

How far would you take a denerved horse if the procedure was succesfull?
 
The showjumper shouldn't be jumping, but I guess that depends what FN he's under. Or at least, they shouldn't be admitting it. ;) I do know there is more than one out there, though. The "standard test" is poking the horse's heel with a pen (there is also a more complicated proper test) is not exactly failsafe and it's not done as part of the vet inspection anyway.

They don't cut feeling to the whole foot, only the heel.

You're going to get a varied response - there are a couple threads in the archives about this - but personally, I've seen it have "good" results, as far as the horse's comfort, in quite a few cases under very specific circumstances. I wouldn't myself compete a horse that's been nerved as I feel it's not a fair ask, but I do know of people who do.
 
I wouldn't ever consider de-nerving. What you're doing is admitting that the work or lifestyle you are imposing on your horse is keeping him constantly in pain but hey, if you just cut all feeling to the bits that are causing him pain, then problem solved. Sorry but I think it's appalling - and be warned that for every success story there will be tons of failures. You're not addressing the symptoms at all. It's as if you broke your leg and the doctor said he'd just sever the nerves so you wouldn't feel any pain. But does it mend the leg? Nope. If he was mine I'd seriously look into slowly moving him to barefoot. A friend at my yard has a TB who was always going lame for one thing or another until eventually low/collapsed heels were diagnosed and all the usual bar shoes etc etc were advised. Now this horse always used to go crashingly lame if just a front shoe came off (he had terrible quality hoof horn) so nobody ever thought he'd cope barefoot and my friend waslaughed out of town! Just over a year down the line and he's barefoot, happy and never lame except a bit footy sometimes after a galloping hack. He wears boots for normal hacking but because he loses them like clockwork on fast hacks, he doesn't wear boots then! His feet look the best they ever have and to be honest I can't believe my eyes. Worth looking into curing the symptoms rather than just cutting the nerves so he can't feel the pain. How brutal is that for gods sake.
 
I would stress that it's obviously ONLY a last resort, after everything else has been tried, for a known irreversible condition, and done in order to keep a horse comfortable for a very specific lifestyle. To do it for competitive purposes, just to keep a horse on the road, is not only arguably unethical, it's against both the letter and the spirit of the law.

The fact that the problem is soft tissue would make me wonder, I have to say. Something is causing the inflammation and presumably it's at least somewhat reversible (vs, say, bony changes) with management. If the problem is simply conformational it does beg the question why has he been sound up until last year?
 
Box_Of_Frogs, i think you are missunderstanding the situation.

How is it brutal to keep a horse free of pain!

This is a horse who is in pain much of the time, after 2 years!!!! of corrective shoeing 6 different farriers numerous vets every test under the sun periods of 3 months box rest, the vets have concluded he will never stay sound for a considerable amount of time. They have still not diagnosed however, it is generalised soft tissue swelling, his feet are now correctly ballanced, heels are not collapsed, we did a course of antibiotics, that didnt work.

I ride him once or twice a week when he is sound and happy, for about 20 minutes on soft ground and he will quite happily gallop around his field for hours, so the workload is not the problem and i would never ever ride him if he is in any way unsound or sore

Before this he was lame for a considerable amount of time as well but would come sound after box rest.

And denerving is performed in humans with cronic pain coming to the end of their lives.

I dont have all the money in the world and if push comes to shove i will gve him another year, if he gets better briliant, if he gets worse PTS :( but if he stays the same what is wrong with him having a comfortable retirement!

I dont agree with horses being competed with it at all! they are not machines for heaven sakes, and who are you to tell me that i havnt given my horse who is in fact a rescue horse the best chance of a happy healthy life. Trust me the fees i have spent on this are in 5 figures.

What i was more asking is would you hack out and do a little schooling on a deneved horse, or would you not ride at all! I wasnt asking for you to suggest i hadnt done all i can.
 
I see where both you and Box_Of_Frogs are coming from. And would suggest you try the barefoot route before neurectomy. I applaud your obvious effort to keep the horse pain-free and feel you have an excellent stance on the current situation and his future.

All things open to us need consideration, if only to dismiss them as inappropriate. There's no harm in asking for the facts and others' experiences. This isn't to say you will choose a particular route and I'm sure you'll be considering the barefoot option, too.

Good luck with this - you clearly think the world of him.
 
I find it frustrating that after all the education out there that people would rather turn to surgery than try rehabbing barefoot. I know we get a but evangelical about it. But this horses situation just highlights why.

I hope you find a way to make him more comfortable. But please at least look into barefoot. Email Rockley Farm and ask Nic Barker for advice. It won't cost you anything to do that.
 
de nerving showjumpers was very common practice 15/20 years ago. the nerves do grow back within a couple of years allbeit disorganised, so the horse remains sound. there is ethical questions about this proceedure. split ligament ops came around soon after, again result good but basically a partial denerving.they are now out of fashion and rarely done. i personnally would rather a horse be sound and pain free by itself, but this is not always possible, so retirement? or denerving allowing the horse to do a job it loves? i would like to know why your horse is sound 2 weeks after shoeing and why it takes so long for him to be happy in his new shoes? barefoot suits some and not others. what is his diet? and a point in your post made me smile and cringe at the same time "he is not lame enough to be on pain releif all the time." if he is lame he is in pain. how lame does he need to be to be lame? sorry i really dont think de nerving is your answer, they need very controlled care if de nerved. there are many older horses who lead active lives on a packet of bute a day, which is not ideal but it does help them to have happy lives. you really need a definitive diagnosis for the reason of lameness and MRI should give you this. Good luck, i wouldnt de nerve your horse, and i would try to get a proper diagnisis before you go any further.
 
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