Dentistry for your horse

[blitznbobs]

I wouldn't go to my GP for toothache. I go to a qualified dentist. I apply that same logic to my horses.
Teeth = equine dental technician
Feet = farrier

As for sedation, I am not against it as such but I think it can be overly used. All my horses are fine having their teeth rasped and I have a very calm EDT who takes his time with them and gives them regular breaks. He is fantastic with young or nervous horses also.

If one of mine was extremely nervous or if the procedure required sedation, then of course I would sedate but I don't think it should be mandatory. I personally refuse to use another local EDT as they insist on sedation for routine rasping regardless of how calm and well behaved a horse might be

This is a false analogy… dentists do a 5 year degree that is as vigourous as a medical degree and have a year training under another fully qualified dentist, they can prescribe appropriate drugs , do extractions and all sorts of surgical techniques… edts need to have watched 300 cases and do 5 days training with another edt can not prescribe drugs, cannot do surgical procedures etc. not comparable at all.

 

[TPO]

Apart from the illegality, I just don't think there is any justification in 2024 for digging teeth out of any animal's jaw without a vet administering IV sedation and a local anaesthetic block.

I agree that action of EDT mentioned in that post was illegal. I was in a similar situation.

EDT was always aware of a very large Wolf tooth and referred horse to vet for extraction.

Vet only administered IV sedation, not a local anaesthetic. He then started hauling away on thr very large tooth and couldn't get it to budge.

He then stopped to check that he was removing the correct tooth thankfully he was. He got it loosened but still couldn't remove it so decided to grind it away to nothing.

EDT was pretty angry at what had happened. Grinding it down left nothing to grip to actually remove it properly and left sharp edges.

That experience kept me firmly in the EDT only/anti vet doing teeth camp for a further 7.5yrs!

 

[Peglo]

I use a qualified EDT that travels up here (we’re on an island)
I don’t sedate if the horse is calm but I would if they found it stressful.

Our vets are all general practitioners and none specialises in horses in particular, never mind dentistry. They are good vets though.

 

[meleeka]

If mine were anything other than perfect to be done, I'd use a vet. I'm very lucky that I have a vet that's very good with teeth. As it is they currently have a qualified and registered EDT as they don't need sedation. I wouldn't expect any EDT to do a proper job on a horse that fidgets. In that case I think sedation is preferable. My EDT found a loose tooth that was missed twice by a different vet. It was so loose he was able to just pull it out with his fingers, but the poor horse had suffered to get to that point (hence the two vet visits).

 

[JenJ]

This is a false analogy… dentists do a 5 year degree that is as vigourous as a medical degree and have a year training under another fully qualified dentist, they can prescribe appropriate drugs , do extractions and all sorts of surgical techniques… edts need to have watched 300 cases and do 5 days training with another edt can not prescribe drugs, cannot do surgical procedures etc. not comparable at all.

Wow, I didn't realise there was so little involved in qualifying as an EDT. That's shocking.

So would it be possible for example, for my friend and I to watch some videos to clock up 300 cases, then I find an EDT to train with Monday-Friday one week, then as I'm now qualified my friend can train with me the next week Monday - Friday and then we're both qualified, just from watching some videos and spending 5 days with the original qualified person? And then we could qualify other people that spend 5 days with us, and so on...?

Is there any other accreditation people can look for to be assured that their EDT is sufficiently experienced and knowledgeable?

(as an aside, and it may be different nowadays, but 30 years ago when I was at university (King's College London) the dentistry degrees were far, far more difficult to get a place on than the medical degrees and required the same A level grades)

 

[Gamebird]

Absol

Wow, I didn't realise there was so little involved in qualifying as an EDT. That's shocking.

So would it be possible for example, for my friend and I to watch some videos to clock up 300 cases, then I find an EDT to train with Monday-Friday one week, then as I'm now qualified my friend can train with me the next week Monday - Friday and then we're both qualified, just from watching some videos and spending 5 days with the original qualified person? And then we could qualify other people that spend 5 days with us, and so on...?

Is there any other accreditation people can look for to be assured that their EDT is sufficiently experienced and knowledgeable?

(as an aside, and it may be different nowadays, but 30 years ago when I was at university (King's College London) the dentistry degrees were far, far more difficult to get a place on than the medical degrees and required the same A level grades)

Absolutely not! It is a lot more involved than that! Please see FAQ on getting qualified on BAEDT website https://baedt.com/performance/#faqtop
Screenshots:

 

[JenJ]

Absolutely not! It is a lot more involved than that! Please see FAQ on getting qualified on BAEDT website https://baedt.com/performance/#faqtop

Phew! Thank you

 

[Hackback]

So interestingly that is actually illegal. Qualified EDTs can only remove wolf teeth 'under direct and continuous supervision from a vet'. Ie. there needs to be a vet present and supervising the entire time while the EDT is extracting wolf teerh (and not just somewhere on the yard). It happens, but it is 100% a contravention of the legislation and needs people to start calling it out.

Apart from the illegality, I just don't think there is any justification in 2024 for digging teeth out of any animal's jaw without a vet administering IV sedation and a local anaesthetic block.

Wow I didn't know that. I thought it was common practice with wolf teeth Although I agree I wouldn't want any 'digging out' done without anaesthetic, the wolf teeth were just a quick knock. He also removed a couple of loose caps on another visit in the same way, but with no sedation. Luckily the horse is still very good with the whole thing.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is there anything to stop a lay person setting up as a horse dentist without any training as long as they don’t falsely claim to have any qualifications or registrations that they don’t have?

Many qualified EDTs ‘rub out’ wolf teeth , though legally that is a vet only procedure.

You can see from the second vet invoice that I posted above that my mare had multiple local anaesthetic injections in addition to the IV sedation when her two incisors were removed. The vet dentist did her rasping first while the locals were taking effect.

Also, there is a big difference between using a specialist vet dentist with additional dentistry qualifications and a generalist who just does the odd bit of rasping/tooth removal. I’m just lucky (and my horses even more so) to have a vet fairly locally who only does dentistry now, and does it very well.

 

[dixie]

I’ve always used a EDT.
However recently our companion pony struggled to eat his hay and it was balling up. The vet came out and under sedation got much further back and identified food getting jammed in between two teeth which had gone off - it stank.

I’ve just had my horse’s teeth done but today he’s yanking right down whilst riding with his head to the floor and I’m wondering if he’s got a problem further back which will need sedation to investigate. Unless it’s his bit or something. It’s really odd.

 

[blitznbobs]

Phew! Thank you

Absol

Absolutely not! It is a lot more involved than that! Please see FAQ on getting qualified on BAEDT website https://baedt.com/performance/#faqtop
Screenshots:

so basically what I said 300 cases and a week with an edt… slightly different to a fully qualified dentist.

I’m not knocking them its fine but it’s not the same as the qualifications for human dentistry

 

[Gamebird]

Is there anything to stop a lay person setting up as a horse dentist without any training as long as they don’t falsely claim to have any qualifications or registrations that they don’t have?

No. Nothing at all. However they are legally restricted to hand tools only (no power/electric tools), and can only perform routine floating and reduce overgroths of less than 4mm. Obviously there is also no requirement for them to be insured, either.

 

[GoldenWillow]

I've used a very experienced edt and then for logistical reasons my vet who specialises in dentistry. He will use sedation or not depending on horse and what needs done. I think his preference is to sedate but since J goes wobbly on the tiniest bit of sedation and stands perfectly without sedation he is done without.

 

[MuddyMonster]

I've used an EDT after a not great experience with a vet. The EDT was well recommended at the time & the vets i was using at the time didn't have a specialised dental vet. The EDT does refer to a specialist vet if unsure, a second opinion is needed or they need further specialised work.

 

[Debsflo1]

Always used an equine dentist, routine no sedation but on occasion horse has needed it for more work. I have just got a rescue mare who needs fillings and has jaw misalignment done under sedation which will be done both by equine vet and dentist

 

[Sheep]

I’m slightly outside all current responses here

I use a fully qualified vet however she doesn’t practice in the conventional sense - she specialises in rehab, chiropractic and teeth - anyone in NI will know who I mean and I think she is amazing.

She will sedate if needed, but genuinely only if needed. Eg the last time she was out, Big Unit almost knocked us out with the gag so… sleepy time!

Other horse was very wary of her, but she took her time & he decided it was ok, after all.

 

[Dave's Mam]

I use an EDT who is a qualified vet, but now specialises in dentistry. She can do sedation & does so for all appointments. As others have said, a still head on a support with relaxed cheeks allows a much safer & thorough examination & treatment.
I'm also very aware that if a horse should panic with a speculum in their mouth that's a lot of metal attached to an already heavy head.

 

[Tiddlypom]

The last time he was here the EDT got clouted on the head by the dental gag . Luckily just a minor graze from a glancing blow.

Mare was standing quietly in the stable (non sedated) as he’d slackened the gag off while he went to change rasping tools. No one was holding her as it was EDTs preference not to have the owner holding the horse, so I was on the other side of the stable. He took a short cut by ducking under her neck just as she went to itch her girth line with her teeth - not an aggressive action by the horse at all. He blamed her, of course , but she was just having an itch and he should have kept well clear of the gag.

I have asked him before this why EDTs don’t wear crash hats, as the gag is potentially a lethal weapon. I think it comes down to not wanting to appear to be a wimp. As an owner I did wear a crash hat in the days when I used to hold the horse during the floating.

 

[HorsesRule2009]

The last time he was here the EDT got clouted on the head by the dental gag . Luckily just a minor graze from a glancing blow.

Mare was standing quietly in the stable (non sedated) as he’d slackened the gag off while he went to change rasping tools. No one was holding her as it was EDTs preference not to have the owner holding the horse, so I was on the other side of the stable. He took a short cut by ducking under her neck just as she went to itch her girth line with her teeth - not an aggressive action by the horse at all. He blamed her, of course , but she was just having an itch and he should have kept well clear of the gag.

I have asked him before this why EDTs don’t wear crash hats, as the gag is potentially a lethal weapon. I think it comes down to not wanting to appear to be a wimp. As an owner I did wear a crash hat in the days when I used to hold the horse during the floating.

With regards to the hat, its quite difficult for dentistry, most of our vets wear hats doing certain things but not for dentistry as it is already an awkward area to see into and a hat just adds to the difficulty, plus its hard to get the head torch over a hat. There are lights/torch that will attach to the gag but they aren't great.

I use a vet with sedation for my horse(s). When much younger I used an EDT, my very docile unflappable mare took one look at him and legged it/panicked, I think it was him rather than what he was doing as she stood well for other EDTs but my last horse would head bang once the gag was in and my current very much lives on their nerves so these 2 were/are always sedated for a dental, it also allows a thorough examination right to the back teeth and small pathologies can be spotted easier and before they become a bigger problem

 

[minesadouble]

No. Nothing at all. However they are legally restricted to hand tools only (no power/electric tools), and can only perform routine floating and reduce overgroths of less than 4mm. Obviously there is also no requirement for them to be insured, either.

What is the situation with 'overseas' qualifications?
I use a local EDT and dental specialist Vet who come together over 2 days and do pretty much the whole yard.

However, quite a few people local to us use an EDT who qualified abroad (apparently) who claims he could easily get on the BAEDT Register but according to him 'its just a money making scheme'.

 

[Tarragon]

As I understand it, if power tools are not used, more force has to be used and it can result in weakening the teeth in their sockets. If power tools are used, less force is applied and it can take less time, but asking more of the horse to put up with. If a horse is sedated, it allows the vet/dentist to concentrate more on what they are doing.
So, my preference is sedated with power tools to allow a more thorough job without having to worry about the horse.

 

[ponynutz]

Our two are sedated and done by the vet partly because it's a 'package deal' and gets done at the same time as their jabs and it's just less work for us to research and find a quality EDT. All of the vets that have done ours are excellent and, as they do on other visits, work through what they're doing and what's going on in there as they go.

I'm not convinced either need sedating tbh but it's just what's always been done. The little pony used to not be able to have very much sedation but the last couple of times it's had much less of an effect on her than previously - and the vet hasn't had to fight too much with her. I'm considering not getting either sedated next time and seeing what happens as it's an extra cost and inconvenient for the ponies who then need a couple of hours stabled to recover.

RE tools: I've never minded it. It works, I've never had a vet slip and I vaguely remember being reassured by someone that the instruments are blunt enough to not do much, if any, damage if a slip does occur (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, a VERY distant memory). Also the horses are used to it. It's done every 6 months and our youngest is 14 now - they know the drill (ha-ha).

 

[poiuytrewq]

I use a very good edt. Recommended to me by a forum member and I’ve been very pleased with him.
I do a bit of work for a little private yard where they use their vet- not a dental specialist just a horse vet and they have told them that horses absolutely must be sedated, without even trying because there is no way anyone can do a proper job without sedation even on the most perfectly behaved horse

 

[meleeka]

RE tools: I've never minded it. It works, I've never had a vet slip and I vaguely remember being reassured by someone that the instruments are blunt enough to not do much, if any, damage if a slip does occur (someone please correct me if I'm wrong, a VERY distant memory). Also the horses are used to it. It's done every 6 months and our youngest is 14 now - they know the drill (ha-ha).

My EDT demonstrated by putting the rasp on the back of my hand. It was totally painless and wouldn't enough to damage skin.

What is the situation with 'overseas' qualifications?
I use a local EDT and dental specialist Vet who come together over 2 days and do pretty much the whole yard.

However, quite a few people local to us use an EDT who qualified abroad (apparently) who claims he could easily get on the BAEDT Register but according to him 'its just a money making scheme'.

There's one like that locally to me. He seems be be quite busy, so I don't think people care. Then there's the one who says he doesn't use power tools because he thinks a better job can be achieved with manual tools, with no mention of the fact he's not qualified to use power tools anyway

 

[PurpleSpots]

Deleted comment as point already mentioned but I'd missed the post on first read-through of the thread.

 

[ponynutz]

My EDT demonstrated by putting the rasp on the back of my hand. It was totally painless and wouldn't enough to damage skin.



There's one like that locally to me. He seems be be quite busy, so I don't think people care. Then there's the one who says he doesn't use power tools because he thinks a better job can be achieved with manual tools, with no mention of the fact he's not qualified to use power tools anyway

Knew I’d heard that somewhere! Thank you

 

[maya2008]

My experience of vets is they try, but it’s not their specialty so despite the sedation they don’t do the same job as an EDT.

 

[Gamebird]

What is the situation with 'overseas' qualifications?
I use a local EDT and dental specialist Vet who come together over 2 days and do pretty much the whole yard.

However, quite a few people local to us use an EDT who qualified abroad (apparently) who claims he could easily get on the BAEDT Register but according to him 'its just a money making scheme'.

Overseas qualifications are not recognised as qualifications by DEFRA and therefore they are legally only allowed to carry out Category 1 procedures (manual rasping, minimal corrections only), and are on the same legal basis as completely unqualified 'dentists' (and not allowed to use the term EDT either). The only people allowed to perform Category 2 procedures (power tools, larger corrections) are vets or EDTs who have passed an exam ratified by DEFRA and are qualified with BAEDT/BEVA or WWAED. Category 3 procedures (anything involving significant extractions, pathology, diagnosis or treatment) are strictly for vets only.

He can claim all he likes that it is just a money making scheme, lots of unqualified 'dentists' do. It's a pretty common argument. I mean I could claim that requiring me to go to vet school for 5 years in order to do vet stuff is 'just a money making scheme'. If I'd qualified as a vet overseas I would equally have to sit further exams here in order to work in the UK. However at the end of the day DEFRA have agreed a way for non-vets to carry out some procedures in a horse's mouth in such a way that they don't contravene the Veterinary Surgeons Act, but have limited it to those with qualifications that they have checked, approved and ratified. Currently these are only the qualifications offered n the UK by the BAEDT/BEVA and the WWAED. Essentially their game, their rules. If you want to play, you play by their rules or you're playing illegally. There has to be some way to regulate and quality control this field.

This is a guide to the legal framework, and to who can do what in a horse's mouth:

https://www.beva.org.uk/Portals/0/Documents/ResourcesForVets/1current-regulations-on-equine-dental-procedures-final.pdf

 

[Gamebird]

My experience of vets is they try, but it’s not their specialty so despite the sedation they don’t do the same job as an EDT.

I genuinely think that like with most things it varies with individuals. I know EDTs who are better than most vets, and vets who are better than most EDTs.

 

[Ambers Echo]

Not read all the replies but a number of people have warned me that EDT's not using sedation can miss sharp areas right at the back. So this time I used a vet with sedation, having used an EDT without sedation for years. She was happy that the back was no different to the front - ie due a rasp, but not horrendous. So for the next routine appt I'll go back to my EDT. Mainly because Lottie found the needle much more traumatic than the dentistry. But I think I will always alternate from now on - and at least check the back under sedation every so often. And if I ever had concerns.