Derek Ricketts Sacked
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BBH
Well-Known Member
I think they should see if Markus Fuch's has a brother, failing that I think someone from abroad tbh, to come in and rattle up things,
There would be no hints ( hopefully) of cronyism and I can't think of anyone who is not a top competitor who would win the respect of the the old guard. You have some strong characters around so you need a strong leader, no shrinking wallflowers need apply.
Horse power is clearly an issue but we've had it and its been sold but we are also buying some top horses. As they say when times are hard the successful just fight harder so you need a real motivator.
The search is on.
There would be no hints ( hopefully) of cronyism and I can't think of anyone who is not a top competitor who would win the respect of the the old guard. You have some strong characters around so you need a strong leader, no shrinking wallflowers need apply.
Horse power is clearly an issue but we've had it and its been sold but we are also buying some top horses. As they say when times are hard the successful just fight harder so you need a real motivator.
The search is on.
PaddyMonty
Well-Known Member
Now thats a job I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy
Steeleydan
Well-Known Member
I think Malcolm Pyrah would be good for the job, straight talking, says it how it is and would take no messing.And has had years of international experience.
BBH
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see them take the opportunity to freshen things up and get in someone younger. IMO younger people are less jaded and more receptive to new ideas etc. Also I do think that things are different now to someone who competed at top level years ago.
Not saying that MP isn't respected but we've had same old same old for a while.
Not saying that MP isn't respected but we've had same old same old for a while.
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
I don't have any views on successors but I do think there was a need for change: the woeful state of British Showjumping results, at least in Championship events, is obvious. Eventing is doing well at keeping in the forefront of the sport, dressage seems to be making great strides forward, show-jumping? Backsliding as far as I can see.
As a neutral observer, certain questions spring to mind: where are the new names/youngsters breaking into the sport (apart from one family)? Why is horsepower such a problem for us? Why can our top combinations score good results in big money GP competitions but consistently underperform at the various Championships?
I think a new manager and preferably an outsider - I like the idea of a foreigner - is one good step to start to make some progress. There are probably other important actions required, but if you get someone good in and give him/her(!) a bit of scope he will hopefully identify the other things that need to happen and start agitating. I will watch with interest!
As a neutral observer, certain questions spring to mind: where are the new names/youngsters breaking into the sport (apart from one family)? Why is horsepower such a problem for us? Why can our top combinations score good results in big money GP competitions but consistently underperform at the various Championships?
I think a new manager and preferably an outsider - I like the idea of a foreigner - is one good step to start to make some progress. There are probably other important actions required, but if you get someone good in and give him/her(!) a bit of scope he will hopefully identify the other things that need to happen and start agitating. I will watch with interest!
sillygillyhorse
Well-Known Member
My goodness can you imagine if a woman got the job! My perception is that it is totally male dominated with regards the team etc, please correct me if I am wrong and always has been.
As for who I would appoint then I really don't know but feel there is a need for an independent outsider.
As for who I would appoint then I really don't know but feel there is a need for an independent outsider.
epson
Member
Well who wouuld you say because they would have to be a stong person to deal with the likes of Skelton and co and Malc would have there respect even though it was a while since he competed.Also I thing you'd find MP is a foward thinking sort of guy who even though isnt that young himself is modern thinking and has kept up with what is happening here and in Europe.
ann-jen
Well-Known Member
Hasn't Malcolm been the chef d'equipe in the past already though?
Weezy
Well-Known Member
Graham Fletcher would be worth a shot IMO.
Baggybreeches
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Graham Fletcher would be worth a shot IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
^^^ wot she said ^^^
Graham Fletcher would be worth a shot IMO.
[/ QUOTE ]
^^^ wot she said ^^^
TableDancer
Well-Known Member
Why not someone from right outside the cosy little world of middle-aged, male ex-showjumpers?
People like MP and GF have known and been mates and on teams with a lot of the current lot for decades - they could hardly be seen as a fresh approach, at least from the outside.
BBs
Well-Known Member
I agree TD.
I think foreign would be better too.
I think foreign would be better too.
exracerfan
Well-Known Member
Pity Harvey is not still into show jumping.............. Only joking, but wouldn't it be interesting! Now there is a tough no nonsense character if ever there was one. He could have got the best out of even the worst donkey.
Seriously though - I really think it wants someone who can get all the TV coverage back which we used to have in the seventies/eighties. It had viewing figures second only to football, wouldn't todays sponsors love that.
Seriously though - I really think it wants someone who can get all the TV coverage back which we used to have in the seventies/eighties. It had viewing figures second only to football, wouldn't todays sponsors love that.
ratsupadrainpipe
Member
QR considering how many international 4/ 5**** Grand prix's British riders get placed in, I think the horse power argument is rubbish. The Italians are not rich and not particularly well horsed compared to the Germans or the Swiss for example. And the riders in that team were already doing great this season well before Markus Fuchs got there ( a month before Windsor) which was pretty much what he said himself at Windsor. The only reason it was such a shock to us was that there is little coverage of international showjumping in this country. Gianni Govonni didnt even make the Italian team and won the GP and The Masters at one 5***** show.
as I said on the other thread, I thing coaching and managing should be separate. Showjumping is so technical and precise these days coaching needs to be the concern of someone who is entirely familiar with 21st century courses and realises for example, that a well schooled horse on the flat, will almost certainly jump better (think France, Germany, USA). The manager needs to have the freedom to choose the best combinations available with out worrying who they might be upsetting or being swayed by any other consideration except the greater glory of British Showjumping!
I think they need a foreigner myself to bring in some objectivity. I can think of one or two that would be good.
as I said on the other thread, I thing coaching and managing should be separate. Showjumping is so technical and precise these days coaching needs to be the concern of someone who is entirely familiar with 21st century courses and realises for example, that a well schooled horse on the flat, will almost certainly jump better (think France, Germany, USA). The manager needs to have the freedom to choose the best combinations available with out worrying who they might be upsetting or being swayed by any other consideration except the greater glory of British Showjumping!
I think they need a foreigner myself to bring in some objectivity. I can think of one or two that would be good.
BBH
Well-Known Member
If you're going to get the tv coverage back you'll need some personalities in the sport which at the moment it is sadly lacking. There have been numerous posts in LN about poor commentary, media ' image' of the SJers when interviewed etc.
The Italian guy ( Natale Chiaudani ) has burst onto the scene this year and has been a revelation in terms of being a ' personality'.
There's got to be some people in the sport viewers can enjoy to keep them watching and yes in years gone by that was HS.
The Italian guy ( Natale Chiaudani ) has burst onto the scene this year and has been a revelation in terms of being a ' personality'.
There's got to be some people in the sport viewers can enjoy to keep them watching and yes in years gone by that was HS.
epson
Member
No Malcolm hasnt been chef, he used to assist Ronnie Massarella(shame he isnt young enough to do the job still)
Weezy- Surley its better to have some one impartial, who doesnt train, isnt related to some one competing at that level,and doesnt sell horses for an income.
Weezy- Surley its better to have some one impartial, who doesnt train, isnt related to some one competing at that level,and doesnt sell horses for an income.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Pity Harvey is not still into show jumping.............. Only joking, but wouldn't it be interesting! Now there is a tough no nonsense character if ever there was one. He could have got the best out of even the worst donkey.
Seriously though - I really think it wants someone who can get all the TV coverage back which we used to have in the seventies/eighties. It had viewing figures second only to football, wouldn't todays sponsors love that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Harvey is very much still involved with showjumping...he has just been elected to the BS executive committee and has avery good horse bases with John Whitaker at the moment (Sultano).
I think he'd do a cracking job...and what's more...I reckon he'd be up for it too...
Pity Harvey is not still into show jumping.............. Only joking, but wouldn't it be interesting! Now there is a tough no nonsense character if ever there was one. He could have got the best out of even the worst donkey.
Seriously though - I really think it wants someone who can get all the TV coverage back which we used to have in the seventies/eighties. It had viewing figures second only to football, wouldn't todays sponsors love that.
[/ QUOTE ]
Harvey is very much still involved with showjumping...he has just been elected to the BS executive committee and has avery good horse bases with John Whitaker at the moment (Sultano).
I think he'd do a cracking job...and what's more...I reckon he'd be up for it too...
Weezy
Well-Known Member
Ahh well if Harvey would be up for it then I would champion him all the way!
I suggested GF as he is very no-nonsense and I really do think he would be impartial and practical. The fact that his wife is on the international scene wouldn't be an issue IMO.
I suggested GF as he is very no-nonsense and I really do think he would be impartial and practical. The fact that his wife is on the international scene wouldn't be an issue IMO.
bclaire5712
Member
i thought of graham fletcher as well, from what ive heard harvey smith has upset a few people in his time. i also think the lack of top horses is a convenient excuse.
all of the problems come from the corruption in the BSJA. if you havnt got the right name or the right family you dont stand much of a chance and if you do get through you've got an uphill battle staying there.
maybe our mebership fees should be spent on brining in a top marketing team to sort it all out rather than paying a comitee £400 a day each to sit around having meeting and telling the chef de quip (who is paid to make the decisions) who to put on the team.
all of the problems come from the corruption in the BSJA. if you havnt got the right name or the right family you dont stand much of a chance and if you do get through you've got an uphill battle staying there.
maybe our mebership fees should be spent on brining in a top marketing team to sort it all out rather than paying a comitee £400 a day each to sit around having meeting and telling the chef de quip (who is paid to make the decisions) who to put on the team.
sillygillyhorse
Well-Known Member
I can quite believe Harvey has upset people in his time but would imagine it was down to telling people the truth and not just what they wanted to hear!
dieseldog
Well-Known Member
Does it have to be a show jumper?
I went to a talk given by the guy who was involved in the sucesses in Triathlon, cycling, gymnastics and long distance swimming. He wasn't an expert on the sports to start with but worked out what you needed to do to win by analysing the sport and getting the correct mindframe in the athletes.
Maybe someone totally different who is used to winning and being succesful and won't accept excuses is a good option.
I went to a talk given by the guy who was involved in the sucesses in Triathlon, cycling, gymnastics and long distance swimming. He wasn't an expert on the sports to start with but worked out what you needed to do to win by analysing the sport and getting the correct mindframe in the athletes.
Maybe someone totally different who is used to winning and being succesful and won't accept excuses is a good option.
susan_w
Well-Known Member
I don't quite buy the argument that about Graham. If people think that he would be biased as his wife competes internationally, how would Harvey not be biased then. Doesn't his son compete internationally? I don't know what's right, but we've so many dynamic experienced people in the showjumping world, we don't have to choose someone who used to do it, to make the team good.
All it does is perpetuate the whole "jobs for the boys".
You could find a positive to say about all of them - Tim Stockdale, such a good ambassador for BSJ, Geoff Billington, a true personality in the show jumping world, John Whitaker, world famous.
We've got to find someone who can be completely neutral. If any of the above got the job, then there would always be someone who would say "they only got on the team because of who their dad/uncle/brother/trainer (delete as appropriate) is"
All it does is perpetuate the whole "jobs for the boys".
You could find a positive to say about all of them - Tim Stockdale, such a good ambassador for BSJ, Geoff Billington, a true personality in the show jumping world, John Whitaker, world famous.
We've got to find someone who can be completely neutral. If any of the above got the job, then there would always be someone who would say "they only got on the team because of who their dad/uncle/brother/trainer (delete as appropriate) is"
Young Rider
Well-Known Member
I think you have to be a total a****** to do the job and both Malcolm P and Harvey are as bigger ones as they come! Derek was too fair that was the problem. Getting a new manager doesn'y change the two biggest issues 1- horsepower and 2 - the lack of media coverage and as a result loss of prestige that the sport used to have.
I think they should be investing in a first-rate PR and somebody in charge of an owner-incentive programme.
I think they should be investing in a first-rate PR and somebody in charge of an owner-incentive programme.
Rambo
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I think you have to be a total a****** to do the job and both Malcolm P and Harvey are as bigger ones as they come! Derek was too fair that was the problem. Getting a new manager doesn'y change the two biggest issues 1- horsepower and 2 - the lack of media coverage and as a result loss of prestige that the sport used to have.
I think they should be investing in a first-rate PR and somebody in charge of an owner-incentive programme.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid I don't buy the lack of horsepower argument. As has been said before, we win our fair share at the bigger shows when people are competing individually...it's the team spirit and tactics that seem to be lacking and the lack of a coherent and transparent selection process.
I can't remember who it was exactly but maybe Geoff Billington who said if the riders knew in advance where they were going to be jumping they could prepare their horses accordingly.
I think you have to be a total a****** to do the job and both Malcolm P and Harvey are as bigger ones as they come! Derek was too fair that was the problem. Getting a new manager doesn'y change the two biggest issues 1- horsepower and 2 - the lack of media coverage and as a result loss of prestige that the sport used to have.
I think they should be investing in a first-rate PR and somebody in charge of an owner-incentive programme.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid I don't buy the lack of horsepower argument. As has been said before, we win our fair share at the bigger shows when people are competing individually...it's the team spirit and tactics that seem to be lacking and the lack of a coherent and transparent selection process.
I can't remember who it was exactly but maybe Geoff Billington who said if the riders knew in advance where they were going to be jumping they could prepare their horses accordingly.
BBH
Well-Known Member
I think they should be investing in a first-rate PR and somebody in charge of an owner-incentive programme. [ QUOTE ]
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats key isn't it really, if the sport was ' built up' a lot of the other issues would resolve themselves ie the argument that lack of horsepower = lack of results.
The trouble is how on earth can sole owners be found to fund sufficient multi million pound horses to keep a pool of horses ready for top competition. We don't have sufficient people here with the available funds of say the Americans, we are generally reliant on a few good owners and breeders who got ' lucky' with a good homebred which they will sell as soon as the £'s start being offered.
The cost of purchase, running and maintaining a top horse is exorbitant, in excess of even a normal lottery win so you can clearly see why maybe the answer is to go back courting big business, Devising sensible syndicate packages, even a £1 from every entry fee would build up to buy a horse for the Nation. But then major investment would have to be made for venues to upgrade their hospitality facilities because a lot of corporate people would laugh at current venues.
I also think a key issue is getting those within the sport to work together for the benefit of the National Team rather than working in isolation for their own businesses.
Any positive progress is gonna take a huge change in mindset to make the sport viable long term.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thats key isn't it really, if the sport was ' built up' a lot of the other issues would resolve themselves ie the argument that lack of horsepower = lack of results.
The trouble is how on earth can sole owners be found to fund sufficient multi million pound horses to keep a pool of horses ready for top competition. We don't have sufficient people here with the available funds of say the Americans, we are generally reliant on a few good owners and breeders who got ' lucky' with a good homebred which they will sell as soon as the £'s start being offered.
The cost of purchase, running and maintaining a top horse is exorbitant, in excess of even a normal lottery win so you can clearly see why maybe the answer is to go back courting big business, Devising sensible syndicate packages, even a £1 from every entry fee would build up to buy a horse for the Nation. But then major investment would have to be made for venues to upgrade their hospitality facilities because a lot of corporate people would laugh at current venues.
I also think a key issue is getting those within the sport to work together for the benefit of the National Team rather than working in isolation for their own businesses.
Any positive progress is gonna take a huge change in mindset to make the sport viable long term.