Designer breeds?

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Flying_Filly

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Aren't show dogs as much designer breed dogs, as labradoodle, springador etc?

After watching crufts and reading some posts on here, I began thinking. What are designer breeds?

We have a Lab x Springer. Aren't people calling these springadors and then people criticising them as 'designer breeds'?

What is a best in show, or dog that matches the 'breed standard' of today? Aren't they dogs that have been breed to meet a certain criteria? in the show world this isn't necessarily a criteria that is correct for working. Isn't that a designer breed to?
 
I can't help but think the same thing myself...sometimes.

Okay, this is going to be a debate again (probably with labradoodles being argued about).

But every breed is a cross (at some point in their existence) and now we have pedigrees to prove that their lineage is "pure".

*Designer* breeds is a bit of a marketing ploy IMO. It's all well and good to say you have a cross of such n such - I LIKE cross breeds. I met a shih tzu x poodle the other day, and don't get me started on the hilarity in my own brain that went on when I tried to give it a designer lable. But the pup was gorgeous, lovely natured and for all intents and purpose, a dog that fills a niche for a pet owner. HOWEVER, to breed said cross and charge heaps more money just because it's got a cutesy designer name is just wrong wrong wrong.

I know of some folk that are breeding poodles with bichon to get poochon. We all know someone with a labradoodle. Thing is, that until they have been crossed for several generations with some sort of criteria in mind of what the end result should be, and genetic testing and health in mind, you're never going to get a standardised anything. I think the problem now is that more *average joe blogs type* people now have cottoned on to the idea of breeding dogs is a money spinner. I'm not saying that all people that breed are greedy - many aren't. Many do it for the love of the breed. They do it to IMPROVE the breed (hopefully). And there are folk out there that want to create a better working dog suited to their needs (if lab x springer does it for you, then by all means - keep breeding them so long as you can place them all to good homes). But I get a bit irritated by folk who are taking advantage of the gullible and say that they have a purebred cavachon (or whatever) and they paid a grand for it (or whatever) and were told it was really well bred and will never moult, it's the latest designer breed....

...and yet it plays in my mind that every breed that we have a standard for today at some point in history was someone's idea of a good cross that actually caught on.
 
To me:
A type is a particular 'look' - i.e. A cob
A breed has a documented breeding history and is 'pure' enough to breed true
A crossbred is the cross of 2 documented, true breeding breeds
A mut is an unknown mix.

I quite like cross breeds, there are some lovely ones out there - my issue is when someone feels the need to much the names of the two breeds together and refer to the result as a 'pure bred' labradoodle/shitpoo/morab/fugaloosa whatever and add a corresponding price hike onto what is a cross bred animal. If a cross is popular it may be worth a lot but it still sure as heck is not a 'pure bred' crossbreed.:D
 
I must admit the only things that annoy me about designer breeds are the vast sums the breeders are charging for puppies and the lack of any health checks or screening.

Before we had the Dobes we had Lancashire Heelers who were great dogs they were thought to originate from a Manchester Terrier crossed with a Corgi. So I expect most breeds are a cross of something to get where we are today and I dont have a problem with that its just that the designer breeders do not have the dogs welfare at heart.
 
I'm with you there Dobiegirl and TFC. If people would call them labrador x poodle, do all health tests on parents and not charge ridiculous prices I wouldn't have a problem. Unfortunately it does seem that many (not all I am sure) breeders of these designer crosses are only out to make a fast buck with no thought for the future of the resulting pups.
 
I am not going to defend the huge prices people ask for cross breeds, or the ponce or giving stupid names. I'm going to use my cross as an example of pure madness. She's from great blood lines on both sides, field champions in each generation. She was an accidental breeding and was sold as such. She cost us £150. In the same area a litter was being sold as 'springadors' for £580 ! Insane.

Isn't the cost of the some pure breeds insane too though? (duck!!). And although there is a breed standard for character and build, frequently you don't get said character? It is a bit of a gamble. I know several people pay HUGE amounts for a pure breed because it's supposed to be a certain way (Labs in particular) and they have ended up with problems (I have also known people with fab pure breeds and bad cross breeds)

I'm kind of ranting and arguing with myself here, but isn't giving things a name something we do? for example Irish Sports horses for example, aren't they ID x TB? so a cross breed?
 
I'm not trying to be argumentative, this is something that really interests me. I should prob have the discussion in a pub rather then on a forum.

Are there not 100's of puppy farms turning out litters of pure breed puppys for naivee Jo Bloggs to go pay big money for? is this worse then breeders charging huge amounts for a cross breed?

We talk about screening of the dogs, making sure there is no heath problems etc. Haven't most of these health problems come about because of the selective breeding process to reach 'breed standards'. Most of these issues are breed or type specific, so a good cross breed could ensure a healthier dog. I was horrified the other day to discover that close breeding in dogs only refers to matings between mother and son, father or daughter or brother and sister.
 
Flying_Filly said:
I am not going to defend the huge prices people ask for cross breeds, or the ponce or giving stupid names. I'm going to use my cross as an example of pure madness. She's from great blood lines on both sides, field champions in each generation. She was an accidental breeding and was sold as such. She cost us £150. In the same area a litter was being sold as 'springadors' for £580 ! Insane.
............

I'm kind of ranting and arguing with myself here, but isn't giving things a name something we do? for example Irish Sports horses for example, aren't they ID x TB? so a cross breed?
Click to expand...

ISH is a registry not a breed and they are not all IDx TB some are real mixes with warmbloods ( which are crossbreeds) and others breeds too.
Reputable breeders health test and raise money for research to find tests and most of the health problems are found when corners are cut. Some breeds have strict codes of ethics btu puppy farmers seem to think ethics is a county near London.

I had a very expensive "designer dog" in for grooming recently -they had paid as much as a well bred pet of her less common parents breed and much more than a decently bred pet shih tzu would have cost.
shih tzu -small, drop coated, BRACHYCEPHALIC breed crossed with a Maltese, small, drop coated, NARROW HEADED breed.


Offspring had one of the worst jaw constructions possible. Narrow top jaw and wide (& wonky) under jaw. The mouth didn't close properly. This dog was probably going to be in pain when the adult teeth came in.

It was in for a clip off at under six months as they couldn't cope with the coat - matted to the skin as they had had no instruction on grooming from the breeder.

People had bought this cross because they wanted a Maltese and hadn't seen any advertised so purchased this black & white crossbreed for nearly £1000.

Had they contacted the breed club? -no.
Had they ever seen a Maltese in the flesh? -No.

I don't have any great problem with specific crosses for a purpose eg some lurchers and the Guidewell goldie x labs but these are always declared as crosses not given made up names. I have some involvement with Cesky terriers -these are the result of a planned cross many years ago but they were bred for a purpose, heavily culled, and were not considered a breed until many generations bred true. Early spare pups were given away.
Not the same as crossing x with y and flogging the pups as z.
 
We have a seven month old lab x springer pup; she, too, was an accidental mating and has good bloodlines on both sides. We paid £200 for her and I must admit I refer to her as a "springador" (or could she be a "labradinger"?!) but, yes, she is basically just a crossbreed and, like Flying Filly, I have seen springadors advertised for ridiculous prices! Only thing is, we read somewhere that they have the calm attitude of a lab and the speed of a springer...........well, this one has the crazy disposition of my my three springers and the speed of my Large Munsterlander! But she does actually look like a lab! We've just started gun dog training with her so hopefully she'll at least be obedient!

With regards to crossbred horses, my daughter has a Selle Francais x KWPN registered mare and he is classed as a British Sports Horse! Mad!
 
I recently was told: if the Dad was a springer, than it's a springadore. If mum was a springer, it's a labradinger. Never heard such utter tosh in my life, and laughed at the person spouting it.

Who makes this stuff up?????
 
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