Designing the perfect 3.5 ton Horsebox!

Thorpe_HB

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I am currently looking to gain some feedback at what would make the perfect 3.5 ton horsebox.
I am aware that this size of horsebox has taken it fair share of criticism on this forum and therefore I would welcome you all to give your honest appraisals of your experience of them be it from looking at them, buying them or using them.
Are there any glaringly obvious design changes that you would make that the current designs do not incorporate or is it simply that an amalgamation of all the good points of the current offerings would be sufficient to create the perfect version?
Common discussion points seem to hinge around the breast bar and the dangers of a horse jumping over it, to strength and build quality issues. I would welcome your thoughts on the following:-

1] What would you prefer?
i] Breast bar, removable in emergency, set at an appropriate height, open area to tack section
ii] Breast bar fixed with weave grilles in position for travelling?
iii] Full height bulkhead fitted behind breast bar, causing a closed tack area?

2] What height and total weight of horse(s) do you travel with?

3] What payload do you considerable acceptable?

4] What fitments would you consider essential Vs. Preferred? i.e. wardrobe, external tack and saddle storage , rear seating, storage etc?

5] What designs have you seen on other builds that you feel are a good idea or bad idea?

6] When looking for this box would you go purely on build quality or would budget play a part, what budget would you feel is appropriate?

7] How far would you travel to look at a box?

8] Do you have a preference on type of chassis or age or maximum mileage you would consider?

9] If it were to have a living as such, what level would you want it fitted to? Sink? hob?

10]Are there any optional extra type equipment that you would have as standard? CCTV? Ventilators ? Sat Nav? Etc

11] Would you have any personalisations yourself that you would need to add to the current designs due to your own specific needs?

12] Any other thoughts? Any design ideas of you own you would like to see incorporated?

To give some explanation to this post, I am currently looking to re-launch our 3.5 ton range and would like it have incorporated any designs that its prospective customers would like to see within it. The purpose of the post is not to have other manufacturer’s designs are torn to shreds, merely to have an open discussion as to what designs are annoying and to the degree how many of us are affected. On that note I would appreciate if manufacturer’s names are omitted from negative design problems with their names perhaps used if you feel that they have ‘nailed’ a design in terms of either the user or horse’s needs

I really appreciate any time you can spare either a long response or short, either public or via PM, any feedback will hopefully go some way to improve the build of these boxes in general across the industry rather than the end user needing to adapt and accommodate what is currently offered.

Many Thanks

Darren
 

PaddyMonty

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The issues with design and build quality are the reasons I built ours.
For horse security it has a full bulkhead and breastbar (incorporating tack lockers).
It has wing gates to prevent horse from making a hasty exit once ramp is lowered.
The groom door at the rear is wider than standard to allow easy entry when carrying a saddle.
Box is made from ali, not glassonite to save weight.
All screws are contersunk to no edges to catch things on.
Ramp is wider to make getting horses out easier.
I guess how we designed it is what most people want as my wife is constantly asked who built it.
THis is it......
Picture038.jpg

Picture041.jpg

Picture043.jpg
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Hi,
Firstly, well done on asking - so many places dont!

I was looking for a 3.5t & did lots of research (used to have class 2 when competing and driven all sorts whedn doing transport, so this is a HUGE downsize!:D )

The only ones I would entertain having, is one which has a closed section between horse & rear.
Reason being that:
a. If breast bar only, could poss have horse climb over (if ever changing horse) & b. I think horses need to use their head & neck to assist in balancing so would not use a weave grill in any transportation.

Living: nope, dont need one, preferring a tack locker to keep tack away & the odd buckets in etc.
To me, what is the point of 'living' if its going to be covered in hay & snot etc from horse?

However - a door through to rear (grooms door) is most suitable, the sort fitted centrally into the lower section under the breastbar.

CCTV: great idea for those travelling on their own, fitted into dash with the sat nav is great, otherwise a stand alone.

Bulkhead - good solid re-inforced please, have seen too many lightly boarded ones that would not keep a dog behind, let along 500kg of horse or more.

Box to be made of ali.

Side loading doors on ramp

I prefer the side ramp on the kerb side (for UK use). It is very rare to be in a situation where you cannot get ramp open - and more preferable to be able to open on a hard shoulder than to open into traffic ....

Front of box - needs to be sturdy - it wil be bashed by trees etc on the 'luton'.

Unladen weight around 1200 - when wet (fuel & lubes all inc)

A built in step - or the SafeTbar at the rear, great to clamber on with when on ones own, saves leaving a wobbly step kicking about etc.

Optional tow bar - there are still 'oldies' like me who can drag something along behind & this makes the smaller box attractive.

Will think of more no doubt, during the morning :) but those points above are all those that I have ordered from the builder of my lorry - coming this week :)
 
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lauracwd2

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I think gates at the top of the ramp would be the main thing I'd look for if I was buying another. I only ever travelled one horse in mine (Vauxhall Movano conversion) and I would have felt uncomfortable raising and lowering the ramp if there was a second horse in due to a lack of restraint.

I would have said having a divider between the horse and storage wasn't an issue for me but hving seen Paddmontys picture I actually think that is a really good design and keeps the storage/living clean too.

A wider door on the back would be good. Mine had original van doors so could be open fully on nice days to let light and air in.

I wouldn't need living as such but somewhere tidy for tack, bits of kit and clothing would be useful and maybe a small bench seat.
 

Pasha

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Here are my answers! I am currently exploring changing from a IW510 to a 3.5t... I am veering more towartds van conversions as I only have one 16hh horse, however, am looking at all types (and will want to hire/test drive) before I make a decision:

1] What would you prefer?
iii] Full height bulkhead fitted behind breast bar, causing a closed tack area?
But would also consider:
i] Breast bar, removable in emergency, set at an appropriate height, open area to tack section

2] What height and total weight of horse(s) do you travel with?
16hh / 510Kg

3] What payload do you considerable acceptable?
1200 Kg

4] What fitments would you consider essential Vs. Preferred? i.e. wardrobe, external tack and saddle storage , rear seating, storage etc?
Tack locker either internal or external + wardrobe/cupboard for show gear to be hung up

5] What designs have you seen on other builds that you feel are a good idea or bad idea?
Tack lockers under the bulk head (as per above)
Moveable breast bars/partitions as per a trailer - I would particuarly like a box that could be forward or rear facing

6] When looking for this box would you go purely on build quality or would budget play a part, what budget would you feel is appropriate?
Budget is key - needs to be competitive and inline with known brands i.e. Marlborough and Racemaster

7] How far would you travel to look at a box?
Whole of UK

8] Do you have a preference on type of chassis or age or maximum mileage you would consider?
I live within the LEZ so could only consider late 2006 or newer. Lower the mileage the better.

9] If it were to have a living as such, what level would you want it fitted to? Sink? hob?
Not needed

10]Are there any optional extra type equipment that you would have as standard? CCTV? Ventilators ? Sat Nav? Etc
CCTV in horse area
SatNav
More windows

11] Would you have any personalisations yourself that you would need to add to the current designs due to your own specific needs?
Barn style top doors
Wing gates (as above)

12] Any other thoughts? Any design ideas of you own you would like to see incorporated?
No
 

Orangehorse

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I have looked at several of these little lorries, more in hope of one day buying one, rather than having the cash to hand over!

I am an older lady with one biggish horse - surely quite a large sector of potential buyers but I have never seen a box that I would say "that's perfect." I would obviously like to be able to take 2 sometimes, so payload is an issue.

Comfort and safety for the horse, ease of handling and driving for the owner are the most important. And good re-sale price!

I am really surprised at the number of accidents there have been with horses jumping over the breastbar, when you consider that this hardly ever happens with a normal trailer, so why is this? One friend travels her horse with the rear door window covered up, so it doesn't look like a way out for the horse, although the rear door access is very useful for the rider, and is an alternative way out for the horse in an emergency.

I would prefer the horse to have a free head and neck, rather than a weaving grid. If there is a breastbar it should be able to be dismantled from outside the box - some trailers have this, using an Allen key, I think. So if there is any weight on the breastbar, it can be collapsed and not have to try and lift a stuck horse off the bar.

I think have the loading door so the top half is raised, giving a bit of shelter is better than one that opens back on hinges.

I would be looking at minimal "living" as it is better to camp in the box occasionally, rather than carry round a lot of unecessary weight if mostly competeting locally. A good cupboard for storage of riding clothes, so they don't get covered with hay and space for tack and clobber is essential. When you take the horse out we carry tack, feed, water, riding clothes, rain wear, spare rugs, first aid kit, so that is all more important than any "living" although I suppose a little stove could be useful. Anything else can be improvised (this is coming from someone who camps and sleeps in a trailer, and survived to tell the tale). Having a good internal light would be useful, or the possibility of having 2, one for nomal travel and an extra one.

The quality of the ride, handling, safety and economy is the most important thing. Good strong panels, fittings, suspension with a vehicle that sits well on the road and feels stable.
 

Vodkagirly

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I'm considering doing a conversion at the moment, though very early days in the thought process and working out if it is viable.
1] What would you prefer?
i] Breast bar, removable in emergency, set at an appropriate height, open area to tack section
ii] Breast bar fixed with weave grilles in position for travelling?
iii] Full height bulkhead fitted behind breast bar, causing a closed tack area?
This, as I would like a porta potti behind it

2] What height and total weight of horse(s) do you travel with?
1, 600K would prefer it to be set up for 1 horse

3] What payload do you considerable acceptable?
1000K

4] What fitments would you consider essential Vs. Preferred? i.e. wardrobe, external tack and saddle storage , rear seating, storage etc?
external tack locker

5] What designs have you seen on other builds that you feel are a good idea or bad idea?

6] When looking for this box would you go purely on build quality or would budget play a part, what budget would you feel is appropriate?
both play a part, not able to give figures yet.

7] How far would you travel to look at a box?
Given the right details so I am 99% certain I am buying 200 miles

8] Do you have a preference on type of chassis or age or maximum mileage you would consider?
I think a box chassis would suit my needs better, I don't think the van ones give enough space in the luton or the lenght I want.

9] If it were to have a living as such, what level would you want it fitted to? Sink? hob?
Would like a mini living eg bed in bulk head, small unit with camping style stove, hook up for electric cool box, cut through to cabin with captain swivel chairs in to use. I reckon if your cabin cut through you could do this in about 3ft.

10]Are there any optional extra type equipment that you would have as standard? CCTV? Ventilators ? Sat Nav? Etc
CCTV essential to me, sat nav depending on cost ( couldn't justify these places that charge £300 for one when I already have one)

11] Would you have any personalisations yourself that you would need to add to the current designs due to your own specific needs?
I haven't seen my ideal living in any of the current "new conversions" I have seen the cut through on pictures but not real life so would be interested to know if it could be achieved but if it was possible and the seats were changed to swivel it would reduce the space/weight required for a living.

12] Any other thoughts? Any design ideas of you own you would like to see incorporated?
 
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PaddyMonty

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11] Would you have any personalisations yourself that you would need to add to the current designs due to your own specific needs?
Barn style top doors
There was much discussion prior to building ours on which type of top door to use.
OH initially wanted barn door type as was concerned that the top opening would adversly affect horses loading. She also didn't like the rope that always hangs down to close it.
I managed to persuade her that if top opened higher then it would not cause a loading issue which has been proved to be the case. I also made her a pole type gizzmo (now nicknamed Hook-A-Duck) which she uses to close top door so no rope required. H-A-D is kept behind seats in cab.

Having used the lorry for 12 months now she agreed it was the right way to go. Having the top door gives shade to the horse when hot and keeps the rain off when normal weather resumes. The hinge for top door is continuos nylon type so doesn't drip through when open.
 

superwibble

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I looked at 3.5 tonne boxes for a while. I have a 17hh horse that weighs between 670 and 690 depending upon the time of year so I would never be able to take 2 horses. I actually would have considered one if I could have had it stalled for 1 so I would never be tempted to take 2 horses (I don’t know anyone with a horse less than 16hh that I would take with me).

I agree with the ramp on the kerb side, separate locker area. In my trailer I have gas (one ring would do I never need 2) and a sink and somewhere to sleep (this could be the seats in the front converted of somewhere to put a mattress for one)
 

Pasha

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There was much discussion prior to building ours on which type of top door to use.
OH initially wanted barn door type as was concerned that the top opening would adversly affect horses loading. She also didn't like the rope that always hangs down to close it.
I managed to persuade her that if top opened higher then it would not cause a loading issue which has been proved to be the case. I also made her a pole type gizzmo (now nicknamed Hook-A-Duck) which she uses to close top door so no rope required. H-A-D is kept behind seats in cab.

Having used the lorry for 12 months now she agreed it was the right way to go. Having the top door gives shade to the horse when hot and keeps the rain off when normal weather resumes. The hinge for top door is continuos nylon type so doesn't drip through when open.

It's my personal preference having tried both and my horse prefers the barn style doors... just out of interest, why were you soo keen to go for overhead rather than barn style or full ramp? Shade and rain isn't an issue for me with just 1 to travel, which would be on the other side.
 

Orangehorse

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Is a tack locker with the door on the outside better than having to scrable around inside?
Perhaps there should be one inside door and one outside?
 

Leg_end

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When we bought ours I looked at several different makes. I like the design of paddymonty's but I would want access to the horses from the rear just in case. When I get my next lorry I will probably have something more like this or a mix or the set up in the Equitrek with the door.

I have a full height partition and we custom made some weave grills which allow the horse freedom to move its neck whist travelling.

What I love about my lorry is
Reversing & horse area camera (this was essential for me)
Sat nav
Blue tooth
Outside tack locker
Barn doors

In terms of living I'm not bothered as it adds to the weight.
 

Silvermiyazawa

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This may be a really REALLY stupid question so apologies in advance!

Having looked around (on the internet) more in hope of one day being able to afford one than actual intention it struck me that you are VERY close to the horse. What is there to stop the horse landing in the cab with you if (God forbid) you were to have a head on collision?
 

Orangehorse

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It is a good question! When my horse was young, he used to give the trailer a good hard kick when ever I set off, and I always wondered about a small horsebox with the horse travelling backwards, if they decided to really let fly with the hindlegs. I could forsee the drived getting kicked in the back of the head.

To answer your question - hopefully the manufacturer had thought about this and made the panels strong enough.
 

sarahann1

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I've never used my own horsebox but have looked at a few in the hope that one day I can afford one of my very own!

One thing that I'd really like to see is boxes created from more reliable car manufacturers, my hubby (former mechanic) wouldn't let me buy anything French built which would to rule out alot of boxes. Anything by a certain so called luxury brand that begins with M would be out too as they'll no doubt rust away into a messy heap.

Other than that I'd like:

A really good bulkhead to keep horses away from the cabin.
One which makes use of every cubby hole for extra storage.
Built with an accident in mind, i.e easily removable breast bars, easy access to a horse if god forbid it was to end up on its side.
A living area that would give you the option of using camping stoves etc if a stove wasn't built in.
Decent size tack storage.
Tool hooks so tools can be well secured.
Two tie rings the same side of the lorry or two at the back, preferably both to give you extra options where parking is tight.
 

hairycob

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I occasionally borrow a renault conversion & there is one big thing that bugs me about it.
Tacking up has to be done on board as there are no external tie rings, but there is a fixed partition between horse & tack areas with no exit route. When I am doing up the bridle if the horse decided to have a paddy my only escape route would be to jump over the partion (at my age unlikely to be acheived even in an empty van with a big run up!). OH does worry about it every time. Luckily my horse is the least likely horse in the world to have a paddy, but I do make sure I get the job done as quickly as possible and get round to the exit side asap.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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This may be a really REALLY stupid question so apologies in advance!

Having looked around (on the internet) more in hope of one day being able to afford one than actual intention it struck me that you are VERY close to the horse. What is there to stop the horse landing in the cab with you if (God forbid) you were to have a head on collision?

Thats the bulkhead that some of us have referrred to above :)

sarahann1 - I've made sure I have tie rings a plenty - wil have to take Tiny Fuzzy on occasions too. Also ali sided is safer (less damage to be done) to have tie rings set on, than other finishes.

Vehicles I've looked at and preferred are the Vauxhall Movano (we have 1 already for 'other things') and the Renault Master - both one & the same except for badging ;) the newer Fiat Ducato's are ok too

Discarded most of the others makes due to weight distribution & height, I would not touch a Citroen ever.

I'd want a cab chassis no older than 5 years, mileage around 100k tops - with full service history and proof of recent service & full mechanical check (once converted to horsebox)
A certificate to show unladen weight
Warranty on vehicle with arrangement with local dealer/garage if manufacturer too far away to deal with mechanical problems under warranty.
Nice touch would be frre breakdown/recovery included in purchase price.
 

Thorpe_HB

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Wow! Thanks to everyone for the initial repsonses, this is just the feedback I was hoping for, good and bad points and everyones opinions, Great!

To summarise a few points so far

Strength: - dividing bulkhead to be strong enough in the event of accident, currently our design incorporates this idea already but is a valid point to be raised amongst other builds.

Breast bar debate - perhaps full height bulkhead as standard and then weave grilles or just breast bar as options.

Fitments - externally accessable saddle and tack lockers a must, make use of any available space, 2 camera CCTV, internally a wardrobe/hanging space and cupboards with appliances as an option given once weight considerations are explained. Seating for two??

Above Ramp - Barn doors and lift up flap both to be offered as per customer's wishes, I can see the points are valid for both designs but personally would favour the barn doors for headroom and loading issues,but will offer both variants.

Chassis - given our need for low entry height 3.5 ton chassis we have either the Vauxhall/Renault or the Peugeot/Citroen/Fiat versions to choose between. Does anybody have specific bad experience with any of these makes in the age range to be built upon, say 2007 - 2010 that would stop them buying another?
 

Miss L Toe

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Has anyone mentioned the Ford Transit with an Ifor Williams container, I know the ramps is steeper than a Movano, but it seems easy to do the conversion, and much cheaper, looking at £4 to £5K.
Loads of good Ford Transits around.
 

mtj

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1] What would you prefer?
i] Breast bar, removable in emergency, set at an appropriate height, horse wide door to tack section



2] What height and total weight of horse(s) do you travel with?
16 hh, 600kg

3] What payload do you considerable acceptable?
1100kg

4] What fitments would you consider essential Vs. Preferred? i.e. wardrobe, external tack and saddle storage , rear seating, storage etc?
small bench for portaloo, prefer external tack access

5] What designs have you seen on other builds that you feel are a good idea or bad idea? Wide doors that allow horse to exit rear in emergency. Twin wheels at rear. Barn style doors. Wouldn't buy the lid version.

6] When looking for this box would you go purely on build quality or would budget play a part, what budget would you feel is appropriate? Won't buy poor quality, but budget probably limited to £25K

7] How far would you travel to look at a box?
150 mies

8] Do you have a preference on type of chassis or age or maximum mileage you would consider? Must be lez compliant

9] If it were to have a living as such, what level would you want it fitted to? Sink? hob?
No to sink, hob. Just basics such as somewhere to hang stuff, bench to hide portaloo. maybe plug for travel kettle

10]Are there any optional extra type equipment that you would have as standard? CCTV? Ventilators ? Sat Nav? Etc
CCTV and ventilators

11] Would you have any personalisations yourself that you would need to add to the current designs due to your own specific needs?

12] Any other thoughts? Any design ideas of you own you would like to see incorporated?
Key thing is safety. So rear impact protection and breast bar etc must be collapsible. Air con in horse section?
 

LittleGinger

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I'm considering doing a conversion at the moment, though very early days in the thought process and working out if it is viable.
1] What would you prefer?
i] Breast bar, removable in emergency, set at an appropriate height, open area to tack section
ii] Breast bar fixed with weave grilles in position for travelling?
iii] Full height bulkhead fitted behind breast bar, causing a closed tack area?
The first option - no one seems to be saying this though! Do they know something I don't? :D:eek: My reason is that my car has been hit in the passenger side twice in the last 3 years by people pulling out of junctions/roundabouts - heaven forbid that happened in a lorry; I worry that a damaged ramp/car wedged in side of lorry would make it difficult to remove horses quickly.
My horse has never climbed out a lorry/stable/field etc. so I would trust him not to do so. Would be more wary about others' horses though and would consider a grill for them - wonder if you can get removable ones?

2] What height and total weight of horse(s) do you travel with?
Just one; me plus tack - so a low payload would suit me fine although I know many are higher. If I were taking a friend out I would be more concerned - it's possible they might have to drive with tack in car if it were too close to 3.5t.

3] What payload do you considerable acceptable?
1000/1100K

4] What fitments would you consider essential Vs. Preferred? i.e. wardrobe, external tack and saddle storage , rear seating, storage etc?
Tack storage is essential; don't really mind where. Not bothered about seating/wardrobe etc. as don't stay away much and if I did I don't mind camping.

Also, as someone who's both short and pathetically weak, ramps MUST be easily opened and closed by one girl on her own without too much red-faced struggling. Similarly I would want barn door openings so I could reach to shut them.


5] What designs have you seen on other builds that you feel are a good idea or bad idea?


6] When looking for this box would you go purely on build quality or would budget play a part, what budget would you feel is appropriate?
both are important, hence why I don't have a box yet :( I need to save another few k first as all the ones in my budget aren't winning me over.


7] How far would you travel to look at a box?
I'm lucky enough to have family 300 miles away - usually I miss them a lot but it does make things like viewing far off boxes/horses etc. useful! So far I have sent my dad to view a few -the plan is when he finds one that is actually as described and in good sound condition I can travel up to view/buy

8] Do you have a preference on type of chassis or age or maximum mileage you would consider?
I'm quite funny with age - I want it to last years so the newer the better. Don't think I'd go to see anything over 7 years old unless it was very local.

9] If it were to have a living as such, what level would you want it fitted to? would rather have the payload.

10]Are there any optional extra type equipment that you would have as standard? CCTV? Ventilators ? Sat Nav? Etc
CCTV virtually essential; sat nav I've got a portable one; ventilators perhaps

11] Would you have any personalisations yourself that you would need to add to the current designs due to your own specific needs?
Not that I can think of!
 
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SonnysHumanSlave

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I would prefer a 1 horse box, with a much larger living bit.

Seems you either get a teeny living or just a Luton with the 3.5tonne boxes, which is a huge disappointment considering with 2 horses it would be highley likely to go over weight.
 

nikCscott

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I had a Chaigley and LOVED it un fortunately my horse hated traveling backwards which then made him bad to load and I have spent the last year getting him happy to walk in and out of trailer.

So i would have the Chaigley design but would add or change....

Forward travel option!!!
Ramp gates to stop 'escaping' when ramp lowered
Wider back door
Built in camera for horse area which flicked onto reversing camera
Optional horse shower (i only carry 1x large horse so would rather use some payload on this)
Also some kind of external/draw with removable bucket to put droppings in which you could remove and wash once home
 

scarymare

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The issues with design and build quality are the reasons I built ours.
For horse security it has a full bulkhead and breastbar (incorporating tack lockers).
It has wing gates to prevent horse from making a hasty exit once ramp is lowered.
The groom door at the rear is wider than standard to allow easy entry when carrying a saddle.
Box is made from ali, not glassonite to save weight.
All screws are contersunk to no edges to catch things on.
Ramp is wider to make getting horses out easier.
I guess how we designed it is what most people want as my wife is constantly asked who built it.
THis is it......
Picture038.jpg

Picture041.jpg

Picture043.jpg

OMG - I want one of those please! Are you starting making them commercially?
 

ROG

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Bit of legal stuff ...

Any cctv screen (apart from reversing) is illegal if seen by the driver so that would require a passenger which in turn reduces the available amount of payload for the horses

One horse will always be ok but if two then the likelyhood is that it will weight over 3.5 tonnes


One more thought -
The one horse only seems to take up half the width so is there a way to utilise the empty half as living etc ??
 

Vodkagirly

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I reckon the solution is 2 types of box.
A 1 horse, bit of living/luxuries model and a 2 horse safe but minimal box to maximise payload.
 

Thorpe_HB

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Given the 1 horse idea, we currently look after a 3.5 ton box which has a ramp at the rear, stalled for 1 in the centre and then second ramp on the side. For 1 horse it seems a good system, its centrally loaded, forward facing and easy to remove horse in emergency. Drawbacks are very minimal and disjointed storage due to the layout but it does travel her horse exactly as she wishes which I guess is paramount.
 
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