Desparate help needed please

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Charlie007

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Hi, I posted on here a few months ago about a friends dog whom we thought had a bad case of mange. The vet had seen her and treated her to no avail. Then she was referred somewhere and they couldn't find anything. The owner then tried the medication given to hounds for mange. As he was using this medication the dog was also moved to his MIL just incase she was picking anything up from his house. She started to improve very very slighty. Then his MIL was taken ill and she had to come home and it has all started again. He is even talking of having her PTS as he cannot bare to see her suffer with the constant itching and just general under the weather. I would like to have taken her on but as we don't know what it is, and we have two dogs of our own, we darn't risk it. He has actually just taken on a rescue lurcher to keep her company and the lurcher has not caught what she has? He is totally gutted that he cannot find whats wrong. Has any body experienced this or know any other cases? He has tried controlling it with diet but it didn't help?
 
Could it be an allergy of some sort given that he improved when with the MIL and got worse when he came home? And also given that the lurcher hasn't caught what he has?
 
It could well be but the vets have done allergy tests and they have all come back fine. His other opition was to give her away to see if a new home would be better but of course he has sent the last year training her for shooting and really doesn;t want to do that. And also he could just be passing the problem on to someone else.
 
Thats strange, As a last option I would just try treating the dog for an allergy and just see how she responds. Its worth a shot if the only other option left it to be PTS. Usually steroids and some sort of anti histamine would work. And if she responds then you could rule its some sort of allergy. I'm no expert but I wonder if its a contact allergy then it might not show up in bloods?
Is she living indoors or outdoors? Might be worth trying getting her a good warm kennel and buying new fleece rugs for her and not let her in the house and see does that help.
Is there any skin specialists that you could go to or even to get a second opinion about her? It might be expensive but if it gets to the root of the problem then I guess it's worth it :)
Do you have any photos of what her skin is like?
 
I did see a dog (husky bitch as it happens) the other day who had a problem absorbing I think zinc (or another mineral, think it was zinc though). Anyway it resulted in scabs and sores. The solution was to feed her several times the recommended zinc intake and the sores reduced a lot.

So, if the allergy route doesn't lead anywhere it might be worth considering diet/mineral deficiency.

People can get similar reactions, e.g. very easily chapped lips with a B2 deficiency.
 
It does sound like an allergy but they can be difficult to diagnose and figure out exactly what is causing them. If it were my dog I would try a referral to an allergy specialist and go from there.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. She is currently in a kennel which is kept spick and span, bedding included.

Gwellian,No I don't think he has tried the raw diet but he has tried the specialist foods that are for dogs with allergies.

Ashlingm, she is in a kennel and rarely goes in the house. I really think he will have to bite the bullet and get a second/third opinion, unfortunately he is not insured, and has spent nearly a grand on her already. (I think he is prepared to spend more tho)

Tickles, that is interesting. Would the vet not have picked up a deficiency in a blood test? Could be worth checking again tho.

Booboos, yes I think that will be the next step, but I think she may have seen a skin specialist when she was referred.

No pics sorry. Thanks again for all your replies x
 
First thing is contact & ingested allergens.

Contact - Cleaning materials? bedding? wash powder? grass?

Diet - hypo allergenic means less allergenic and if the dog is allergic to one ingredient it will still react.

I suggest an exclusion diet. Allergy tests are not reliable.

Just a single protein, lamb or chicken are easiest to find, cooked with potato.

If an improvement is seen you can add one more ingredient. If no improvement after three weeks strike one of those ingredients and try a different meat or rice instead.

Once you find a combination that works use it as a base diet and carefully try other foods in small quantities.

I have had boarders allergic to corn, wheat, chicken, peas, beet pulp, Persil & eggs.

One Westie had black skin & had had thousands spent at the vets - in three weeks he was growing hair.
 
I may be way off here........many years ago the ex in laws fighted something that sounds very similar on their collie.....in the end they discovered he had an under active thyroid gland.
May be useful info!!!
 
Has the dog had skin scrapings and punch hole biopsies? If so, what was the lab report from these?

Demodectic mange should be picked up easily; sarcoptic mange can be a b*gger and you may get clear scrapings and still have it. There is also a third type of mange (name escapes me at the moment) but each require treating with different things and in different ways.

You need to find out what it is you're dealing with, otherwise you're just firing in the dark.

If the diet didn't change when the dog went to the MIL that you can rule out food allergies, but if in doubt do the exclusion diet. Prescription foods for dogs with allergies are no good if your dog has an allergy to the protein source used in that food!! (Normally, chicken.)

Grass/pollen allergies are increasingly common as we start to go into spring.
Dust mites ditto......I wouldn't give the dog any fleece type bedding at all.

If it is a gundog, then it is likely to be in places where sarcoptic mange is rife.....the mite is on a three weekly cycle, so you need to apply Stronghold every three weeks religiously to break it.
 
There was a programme on tv recently with great dane experiencing very similiar allergy type problems.
The owners opted for wooden flooring and regular(daily hoovering of bed) turned out to be dust allergy and after anti hystemine shots and regular hovering for cleaning up dust mites problem resolved itself.Might be able to find it if you google on vet sites and great dane .
 
You said it was like mange. I suppose it's not fox mange? One of my livery ponies caught it some years ago (she had probably rolled where the fox had rolled, trying to ease its discomfort). It was very unpleasant, and so was the treatment - washing with iodine - which I had to do every day as the owner was in Australia. But she receovered well and the hair did grow back.

Poor lurcher; I do hope your friend perseveres with it. Incidentally,olive oil is a wonderful cure all for dogs with skin problems, but it has to be really worked in, and you need to take veterinary advice first.
 
My dog was diagnosed with mange, mites, flea allergy, blah.
Steroids for the short term, it came back, steroids again, I was tearing my hair out too :p

Then I changed vets and he, like S4S suggested, told me to proof for EVERYTHING - any variable I could think of.

He's actually sensitive to pine/fir trees (confirmed by sending him to boarding kennels where there are none), high levels of protein and grain in his diet and I do believe part of it is also stress related - heavy stress can have an effect on the dog's immune system IMO.

He's managed with piriton twice a day, Malaseb shampoo twice weekly and a very low protein hypoallergenic food and what protein he does get is from raw food days, fish etc.

To clear it up initially he had a month long blast of Noroclav anti-biotics as it had got so bad that his skin was infected and he had grown sensitive to the bacteria on his own skin, also. I was given Fuciderm steroid gel but I use it sparingly.

I've heard oatmeal baths, cider vinegar baths can also work.

I also apply aloe vera gel to bald bits to take the heat out of it.

My dog not so long ago had no hair at all from his chin, along his belly, inner arms and inner thighs and was face-surfing along concrete because he was so uncomfortable and miserable.
His skin was thickened, black, and stinking.
It's all grown back (he has a couple of new hot spots right now as I was experimenting with dropping the anti-histamines, now firefighting again :()

But keep at it.

Good luck.
 
No, ZRD (zinc deficiency) wouldn't be picked up in a normal blood test. One of our huskies has it quite badly and it's quite common in the breed. She was seen by the head of dermatology at the Edinburgh vet school and they are one of the very few places that can test for it but he did say it's not a very reliable test. It's quite easy to spot and supplementation usually improves it quickly.
I will say that skin conditions in dogs can be very tricky to diagnose. With our girl the supplementation only controls it to an extent but she is a pretty rare case in terms of severity. I know of quite a few huskies who have it mildly.
Have a look here
http://www.huskyresources.com/zrd.html
I'm not sure if other breeds (other than Huskies and Malamutes) are prone to it. Unfortunately, the supplement mentioned 'zincaderm' was discontinued some time ago and was never replaced. Really annoying as it was brilliant.
 
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