Desperate dilemma - what would you do?

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cadno1

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My pony was diagnosed EMS in April, when he had a bout of laminitis, and his companion mare of 15 years also tested positive for EMS (sugar: 149 in May even after 3 weeks on same regime as gelding, during which time his levels fell from 300 to 80). In mid June, retesting showed gelding at 22.7 (nearly there!) and mare at 28.3 (getting there!) Now, my friend wants to move her mare away (not happy with her lack of space / turnout - resentful of her having been on same management as gelding, despite not actually being lami). Prob is both are hopelessly pair-bonded and move is likely to send both off their heads. Gelding's April bout of lami was almost certainly stress induced, as well as EMS related, because it followed directly on 2 massive stress episodes (foolish girl who tried to ride him off the yard and chasing his mare about!). Am extremely concerned that taking mare away will set him back, but friend is admanant. Am looking for a companion for him, now, and - if I can find one in limited time period set by friend - all well and good - provided he takes to it, settles with it and forgets his life partner. However, I do have another option, to send him for 'rehab' with lady who specialises in EMS / laminitis cases. Prob with this is stress again in journey / new place etc although - if he did deal with it - the lady is likely to be far better than I at getting weight off him, and improving his chances of full recovery. He would be 1 hr 10 mins round trip away from me, which is also a problem.Does anyone think that - as stress of mare going is likely to upset him anyway - journey and new place might actually help him get over it? Or am I just inviting trouble?! Am desperate to know what to do as love him dearly and want to do the best I can for him.
Any thoughts would be gratefully received!
Thanks
 
Could you buy a Mini Shetland (or get a small rescue pony) & gradually introduce it to your pony, at the same time gradually withdraw your friends pony by distancing it further & further away.. Say, over a period of a month, then, when the other pony leaves yours pony will still have a chum. Should work I think.
 
You can send him to a new place for a diet, but when he returns he will go back to his old ways, so it is a temporary fix. I agree he will need a companion, as nearly all horses need a pal. preferably a nice wee shetland or dartmoor mare which are available on loan, if you can get a loan, or a share in your field it may also help to have someone to chat to about your management, and look after them for a bit, so you can have a break.
You have had him on his regime for three months, if it was effective, he should now be the correct weight, or you should at least see that he was getting there.
I know very little about EMS, could you explain what you know about it and what steps you are taking with it, then other posters could chip in with their experiences.
 
I wouldn't send away, it won't make any difference to how you have to manage your gelding once home again and it won't affect him missing his companion when he is home. You are as capable of getting weight off him as anyone else.

My mare was separated from her pair bond just over a year ago, luckily another horse moved in and although she isn't attached to him it fills the void.

I'd suggest getting a pony or someone to share your grazing that needs similar management to your horse and when the pair bond does move then it shouldn't be as bad as being left alone completely.
 
Hi
Thanks so much for all your replies. Much apprecaited.
Mrs D123 - I know I worry too much :-) and that - when push comes to shove, he'll just have to deal with it, but stress lami does bother me a bit. I'm looking for a companion, preferably a mare, and - if I can find one - I agree that might be best. I have no ther people near me because of living on top of welsh mountain, so all work / management is down to me, and ponys rehab would also give me a break(!) I can't move mine to same place as mare is going, because he wouldn't get management he needs for his laminitis/EMS plus he'd be nearly an hour's drive away, which would be prob as I work full time, from home. EMS (also called insulin resistance) is equine equivalent of Type 2 diabetes in humans, and requires strict diet (off pasture for 'dangerous' times of the year, as sugars in grass trigger rise in blood sugars and this in turn can trigger laminitis, which is partly what happened to him in April as vet agreed it wasn't obesity laminitis [he's not actually that fat, though less weight would, of course, help him]). Companion, therefore, needs to be weighty herself, so that being on his strict regime would help her, rather than disadvantage her, which makes the search for suitable mare slightly trickier (ponies in rescue centres, for instance, tend to be there because they're too thin, although I know they do get the occasional fatty at his time of the year) I agree that - after rehab - he would be back here, but on same strict regime as he's been on up till now, which has shifted some key pockets of fat, which are symptomatic of EMS (because of lami he hasn't been sound enough to exercise much until the last couple of weeks, and, because of EMS, he hasn't had any turnout, either, until the last few days, but this should change from now on, provided laminitis doesn't reccur.) It helps to have got his blood sugar down, thereby removing one possible lami trigger (but stress remains, as another). Rehab lady would continue this, as well as being able to give him more turn out, due to her pasture being better than mine for purposes of EMS horses
Echo Bravo and Polldark - agree that gradual separation / introduction of new horse would be best but sadly I haven't got much lead time as my friend wants to be off. Also, there are no other horses around here so no 'distractions' if I start separating the ponies in advance of the move (as above, I live in back of beyond)
 
Sorry Touchstone - didn't see your reply before I posted. Thanks and yes, I think I'm coming to those conclusions - just need to find the right companion pony - and quickly :-)
 
Cadno 1 - very interested in this post as I too have a lami horse (retired) with a high EMS count. His original bout of laminitus several years ago was definitely triggered by his companion horse moving away - and a subsequent bout co-incided with his companion going away for a week, so you are absolutely right to be concerned.

From my experience, as long as there is another pony there (and yes preferably get it there before the other companion moves) then you should be OK, especially as he is in a relatively good health. I don't think I would send away as it is something you have to find a lifelong routine that suits you, but take all the advice you can get from lami specialist lady.

Please could you tell me a little bit more about how you got his EMS ratings down. After a month on Metformin and a restricted diet (losing a good lot of weight and generally being clinically very sound) my horse's his EMS levels went up through the roof!!! Aghh. So I am a little bit suspect about EMS ratings being the be all and end all of everything anyway?
 
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I would send him for rehab,they should be able to manage/minimise the stress and get him into shape. While he is away find a new friend and have it ready for when he comes home .He will soon settle, you just need to make it all happen so he is never left alone.
 
Hi Canteron - many thanks for this - sorry to hear about your pony, but glad he's fit and sound. Re the EMS, both our ponies have been on Metformin and off pasture altogether for the last 3 months (in large barn and dirt paddock) and all their hay has been soaked (partly why I'm in need of a break myself!). Since mid June - they've also been on Simple System diet of Lucie Stalks and Metaslim. We have had a steady decrease, up till now (touch wood!!) in their insulin levels, but the danger point is obiously trying to get them back onto a bit of turn out (for essential exercise) but without allowing them too much grass ... I've had 200 sheep on my pasture for the last 8 weeks or so, and the lami rehab lady has kindly been to consult with me about managing my grass and the pony from now on. It's worth remembering, with EMS, that it doesn't always trigger laminitis, and that horses' insulin levels may be going up and down like yo-yo's, without owners being aware of it, before a laminitc attack alerts you to the sugar problems. As I understand it, Metformin alone won't necessarily work, without all the corresponding management, but it can help them to live a slightly more normal life, once stabilised. Also, exercise is key, and helps hugely with maintaining lower sugar levels (tricky for those of us with lami pones, who can't always be worked)
Hi Be Positive - thanks and, yes, I've been so tempted by the rehab - hence my dilemma - but I'm wary, now, of there being 2 stress points - the one when he goes, and the other when he comes back - especially if he gets pair bonded while he's there ! Also, I'm wondering whether the rehab idea is partly so that I can have a break myself as this has been 3 months from Hell, culminating in this additional crisis, just as things were starting to get better :-)
 
Are you able to set up a track system in your pasture? I found it makes a huge difference in getting them moving and active, so helping improve insulin resistance.

My mare is also IR, but managed with diet and exercise. She also managed to strain a tendon a few years ago, which was a huge worry as I was unable to exercise her. Using a track system though she was able to live out happily and grazing was restricted, I was unable to put down different surfaces as I rent the land, but I allowed the grazing to get really bare and had no problems. You could make part of the track from chippings or bark if you are able to. Mine lost weight on this regime and is easier to keep under control as I simply move the electric fence posts for more/less grazing as needed. A companion can be kept on the track with him if it needs the same management, or turned out on the middle area of the pasture if it needs more grass.

Workwise this was much easier - horse out 24/7 so no mucking out and I recently changed from soaked hay to high fibre haylage with no issues which has also saved a load of work. Horse is less stressed than when stabled too.
 
Hi Touchstone
This is exactly what I'm planning to build :-) It's reassuring to know that it's worked for your horse - so thanks for that. I'm using a path that follows sheep tracks, which have already eroded some of the planned track area, and I have some home made bark (wood chippings) I can put down on some of it. Did you have to spend a long time getting them onto the track, initially? i.e. few yards at a time? Or would time limit do it, until more pasture is eroded, than still there? Any help would be v welcome as - although I love the idea - I am not experienced with this system ! Thanks again
 
A very interesting thread. Our old pony that we sold last summer was diagnosed with this mid winter. Its something that is quite hard to find out about.

What area are you in? Could you give me details of the rehab lady - may be useful for our old pony's owners perhaps...

I'm sure that there would be lots of lami type ponies around - at rescues or perhaps the sales. Alternatively you could do a track system around the field and put the other horse in the middle. It may prevent them from becoming joined at the hip to the other one, but allow them the security of being able to touch the other horse over the fence and have the company..

Good luck to you, it really sounds hard work.
 
Hi again:) I intially set the track up fully, but allowed only a few extra feet at a time by running a tape across to block it off, but my grazing was pretty rich and lots of clover and only a few sheep who preferred to eat the stuff outside the track.:rolleyes: I moved fields last year and my old grazing could be used no problems at all with a track system, but the new one seemed to take a bit of adjusting to. I gradually extended it with no problems.

I found initially you have to watch if the grass hasn't been grazed too much, as once it starts growing back it shoots away, a bit like after a cut of hay, which is lethal for laminitics. Once it has been eaten down for a while the growth spurt seems to stop as well, and the grass maintains a low level. I kept an eye on digital pulses and if they were raised I would only allow extra grazing overnight which seemed to work.

Last year I could only manage to extend the track to two sides of the field, this year has been much improved and we're using the whole track. I also manage to open it up in winter, so there is still some grazing and it means the field isn't getting churned up. I must confess it is much easier to manage them with this system and if you are able to have some grass free areas (I can't other then outside her stable where it has worn to bare earth) it should be ideal for you!
 
Hi Honey 08
Yes, Equine Metabolic Syndrome is only gradually becoming better known (well, the condition has been acknowledged to exist for years, but under a variety of different names until it was officially named EMS). More research, lately, has given better means of diagnosing it, and more vets are now activley looking out for it, especially in cases where laminitis has occurred (or recurred), for no other obvious reason. The pity of it is that it often takes a bout of laminitis to alert owners to the underlying EMS, by which time you then have 2 conditions to manage, with the all important exercise required to treat EMS being compromised by the laminitis! Sadly, I thought of having mine blood tested tested a couple of years ago, after a vet talk I went to about EMS, because he's a prime candidate (good doer all his life; never losing much, even unrugged in winter, and between the ages of 8 and 18, when it most often occurs) - but stupidly I put it off! The lami rehab lady is on Brechfa Mountain in Carmarthenshire, South Wales where she and her husband also do IH work with problem horses. She also does consultancy on pasture, and is a real expert on what grasses are worst for horses, and how to manage pasture / turn out for least sugar. Even without sending my pony there, she's been a lifeline because received thinking on EMS can be that the future can only be stable / dirt paddock for life (which, sadly it actually is, in some cases, but not all, as Touchstone has indicated). Hopefully there'll be a web site soon for the rehb service, as she's expanding, due to demand (with so many horses now living on what was traditionally 'cattle grazing' which is too rich, and wrong for equines). I'll post the address here as soon as its online.
Thanks for your thoughts on the replacement pony, and using the track in different ways to suit different needs. Much appreciated :-)
 
Hi Touchstone
This is really helpful - thanks ever so much - it's good to hear from someone actually using the system, and how to introduce it safely. I am planning a loop, between one end of the L shaped coral, with the barn in it, down alongside an overgrown hedge, with lots of tall tress, through the hedge and up the other side, to rejoin the other end of the L shape. That way, they can still access the barn, and they can be constrained in dirt coral for periods, while they get their first intro to the track. Also, they might like to stand under the hedge and actually stop eating for 5 mins :-) I also check pulses on the limited turn out they are currently having on a little square beside the coral - in fact, I think I check them in my sleep !!
Many thanks again - v useful info
 
Surely lots of Rescue Centres have ponies with similar problems and they would jump at the chance of rehoming one to a home with a companion with the same problems and a knowledgable home?

A friend has just contacted a Rescue Centre as she has the same problem and needs a companion and they have offered to fast track her as she wants a companion urgently. Her pony is in a sand paddock.
 
Hi Juliette and Livery Blues
Thanks for your posts and for the above link - I have now found a loan pony. My local rescue centre was helpful, but had nothing suitable atthe moment. A friend then put me onto another pony, not in rescue but needing a home, and I'm hopefully collecting her on Saturday.
Thanks again
 
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