Desperate for help, can the vets really get it wrong

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ducktails

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I have a feeling that this is going to sound so desperate that I could possibly sound crazy, but bear with me and please if you have anything to offer please do, because quite honestly I am at the end of my tether...

As brief as possible history, after 6 months of messing around with my own vets I sent my horse up to Animal Health Trust for a full lameness work up. Diagnosis was chronic suspensory damage to both hind legs, chronic damage to left fore suspensory and arthritic changes to sacro illiac joint. Sue Dyson told me my mare would never come back into any amount of athletic work and I applied for loss of use. At the grand old age of 7 I told my insurance company that I felt she would not be suitable as a pet and I didn't want to watch her deteriorate so elected for euthanasia....

Then.. I hear about Roger Meacock of natural healing solutions who I paid £300 (not normally that much but he came to me as I didn't want to put my girl through 6 hours of travelling). Roger came out and basically told me my horses teeth were awful despite being done and that her foot balance was poor and that this is what has caused the suspensory damage, he also came out put her pelvis back in and said thats what has caused the sacro illiac damage and that she will not only be able to be ridden, BUT be able to return to full athletic work that is within her capabilities including jumping, schooling etc. The future was to get her teeth done by bob livock (3 hours away) sort out the foot balance then bring her back into work.

cue me getting excited then only on coming down from the excitement has it left me feeling so confused that I can spend 6k at a vets to be told shoot her and 300 quid with this guy who said the problems are not permanent. Sooo I called back to Sue Dyson and put what Roger Meacock has said to me to her and she has basically called Roger a cowboy who is prying on gullible (I prefer desperate to give their horse every chance) owners. She has said that studies have been preformed on suspensory damage by vets and that even with damage detected to hind limbs within 6 weeks the return to work ratio is 14%.

I am so confused, this guy sounds so sure I know sugar cubes off this forum has also took his advice over Sue Dysons on her horse but I can't see how the vets you spend 6k on with all the machinery can be wrong over a guy and his theories.. I know who I want to believe and what he says make sense but I can't drag my self through this much longer. This mare is my baby, I need to make the right decision for her.

So please any advice, anyone out there had a horse recover from hind limb suspensory damage, insurance money is over surgery wasn't an option and I refuse to put her on box rest if the prognosis really is so poor. If doctor grass will do it she can have as much of the bloody green stuff as she wants but if this guy is talking **** and someone knows it out there please let me know.

If you have got to the bottom send me your address and I'll send you a medal

Terri
 
Im soooo sorry to hear your story, must be heart breaking. Yes vets can get it wrong - they did very much so with my dog who got menigitis (which I told them) and it was ignored. I kicked up got a second opinion and she was admitted to Dick Whites in Newmarket - she had meningitis and we got her there with about 12hrs to live!

In your case, I would hear what the AHT are saying. They are so well renown with fantastic technology that I doubt they will be wrong. I have no knowledge of Roger Meacock so cannot comment but I have heard of Sue Dyson and she knows her stuff.

Best of luck with whatever you decide. X
 
I have a very similar story to you. £6000 plus on vets and physio and still nothing found or cured in the whole 18 months of trying to get to the bottom of his problems.

Change of farrier and feet rebalanced and 2 treatments of craniosacral treatment from Julie Houghton at a total cost of £122 and horse is a completely different horse!

The vets couldn't pinpoint what was going on. I can certainly understand what your going through. Thankfully my boy didn't end up as a field ornament which is basically what he would have been if I had continued down the vet route. :confused:
 
Sue Dyson is an excellent vet but VERY doom and gloom to the extent where many vets would advise their clients not to refer their horses to the AHT. A LOT of horses have been written off by her, wether they had to be or not, no-one would know, but so many horses have been written off, it almost seems ridicolous?
Roger tends to look at things from a more straightforward view point , rather than opening a can of worms and digging deeper and deeper into a mess. Its a simplistic view of looking at things,and can often work.
You have to think- if I x rayed, body scanned and MRI'ed the top 10 showjumpers, top 10 eventers, racehorses, dressage horses, what would be found?? all sorts I bet. It must be physically impossible to have top performing horses with a truely clean bill of health i.e absolutely nothing showing on x rays, bone scans, MRI, ultrasound.

IMO you have nothing to loose by following roger's advice and giving your horse plenty of time off and Dr Green ( a year ?) and seeing what happens. If it doesnt work, it doesnt work, but at least you have tried.
 
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Can you afford to keep her for another year? More to the point will you be able to deal with the heartbreak when twelve months down the line the outcome is the same (which I think is the most likely result I'm afraid) & with the guilt of having subjected your mare to a further twelve months of discomfort?
Does this Roger Meacock have any professional qualifications? Is he an EDT or a farrier?
You also need to look at the view of your insurance company, who may not be prepared to pay out in a years time.
May I though just express my admiration at your courage when making the initial decision prior to consulting Mr Meacock. If only all owners were as responsible as you are we wouldn't see all these "Companion free to good home" type adverts, which frequently aren't serving the best interests of the horse concerned.
 
well, i've heard very very good things of Roger Meacock too (incidentally, zebedee, he's an MRCVS... not just some unqualified quack!) and he's right up on the list of people I'm going to next for my perplexing horse.
ducktails, is your mare in pain? could she have a year of Dr Green without discomfort? If so, I'd give her the chance if she were mine.
Yes, vets can get it wrong - I can think of one horse who was iirc an insurance write-off and was given to a young event rider, and proceeded to do very well at 4* level with her for a few years. No, he didn't last forever, but nor do some horses with no previously apparent problems.
I don't know where you are in the country, but Dean Andrews EDT trained with Bob Livock, does an excellent job, and is near Belvoir Castle, is that a shorter journey for you?
Very best of luck with your girl.
 
Another point about suspensory damage- I assume that it was suspensory desmitis that your horse was diagnosed with in both hinds and the fore?

I read an article not long ago that the latest research has shown that suspensory desmitis is actually only correctly diagnosed in 43% of cases- ultrasound and nerve blocks alone is NOT a correct indicator of PSD- you can only confirm it with MRI.
The AHT only use ultrasound and nerve blocks to diagnose PSD.
Could go some way to explain why so many horses who have the PSD op are no better after surgery.. have copied and pasted below.

When your horse is lame, a diagnosis of suspensory trouble can be discouraging, particularly if it's termed proximal suspensory desmitis (PSD). Inflammation of the upper suspensory ligament in this area can be tough and expensive to treat successfully, particularly in the hind limbs. Why? Because not all PSD cases are accurately diagnosed with common diagnostic methods and, thus, are not effectively treated, according to new research presented at the American College of Veterinary Surgeons meeting on Oct. 20.

Proximal suspensory desmitis is usually diagnosed with nerve blocks to localize the pain followed by radiographic and ultrasonographic examination to visualize lesions and guide treatment. However, Rich Redding, DVM, MS, Dipl. ACVS, clinical associate professor of equine surgery at North Carolina State University (NCSU) and lead author on the study, found that ultrasound was only accurate in diagnosing PSD in 43% of the horses that MRI confirmed as having PSD. The study used MRI as the "gold standard" for PSD diagnosis in horses that had pain localized to the proximal suspensory region.

"MRI shows that just because you block pain that originates in this region, you don't necessarily have a problem in the suspensory ligament," he explained.

MRI on 25 anesthetized horses showed that six (24%) had primary PSD without bony lesions (the "typical" PSD case), seven (28%) had PSD with co-existent bony lesions, while eight horses (32%) had only bony lesions in that area, and the other four (16%) had no focal suspensory lesions (just adhesions and mild enlargement).

Redding explained that if the diagnosis is inaccurate, expensive treatment might be directed incorrectly. Obviously, this reduces the horse's chance of a successful return to performance as it might be a little like putting a Band-Aid on a broken arm, or a splint on a cut--it's just not what that injury needs to heal.

"It's relatively expensive to do an MRI (about $2,700 at NCSU for PSD examination, which includes anesthesia and evaluation of paired front or hind limbs), but you need to know what the diagnosis is before you initiate treatment," he commented. Diagnosing PSD based on nerve blocks and ultrasonography alone is unreliable, he concluded
 
Yes they do get it wrong!!! When we go to Rossdales my OH is always saying its all very well doing all these scans , x rays etc but as horse never has them when he is OK how can they tell whether what is shown is normal for that horse? Having had 2 big boys with undiagnosed foot lameness, both of which we were told would be capable of light work only, I can only say that one is now 17 and still going strong and the other jumped and hunted until PTS at 22 yrs. I would give your chap try. I also think that if you believe in it it helps too..........go for it!!!
 
http://www.naturalhealingsolutions.co.uk/

That is the link to Rogers credentials for anyone interested.

Seabisuit, that is very interesting. It is PSD, my horse was diagnosed using nerve blocks, scans, and bone scanning. Although there is nothing about the uptake in the suspensory region only in the sacro illiac joint. In fact we never got a fully positive black to the suspensories Roger used his SCENAR device and actually said there was little damage to them.

This is taken from his website

Roger is seeing more cases of Proximal Suspensory Desmitis than ever before, both as residential in-patients at Kington Langley Stud and as out-patients. All cases seen by Roger and the team he uses to treat these individuals have been successfully treated without surgery or shockwave. Treatment of the underlying problems that lead to PSD allow the body and suspensory ligaments to recover for a fraction of the cost of surgery with a significantly reduced risk of recurrence or further lameness. If your horse has been diagnosed with PSD in one or both hind legs then do not be misled into thinking shockwave or surgery to cut the nerve is the only possible answer.

My horse will never be free to a good home, home is with me. I can afford to keep her, I do not have land so will need to find somewhere to turn her away but that is fairly easily done.
The heart ache will be harder to deal with and that is why I am here looking for answers. I don't want to do the day to late or early. I do think she is feeling some pain and I scrutinise her movement every time she trots across the field to me. The insurance company have accepted LOU either way, if she stays she gets branded and the pay out is 60% of whatever they value her at rather than the 100%. I must point out whilst it is obviosuly not even half about the money, I always have a sensible head and chucking 3k down the drain will not be done lightly.
 
Yes they absolutely do get it wrong, along with doctors ;)....

I would absolutely go with Roger on this one, get the balance right, then allow time and rest, Dr green, her age only 7?? her body will be doing its upmost to heal her....

I am sure you will get your mare back to work. Good luck
 
If it was me, I would give her the chance as long as she is as painfree as she can be. If that involves bute for a couple of months while she adapts to the new posture that rebalancing will cause her and 12 months off, I can't see a problem with it myself and I do hope this chap proves successful for you.
 
Why don't you contact Pammy Hutton and Laura B. and see what they have to say? He cites them as clients so worth an ask....
 
Hey Ducktails,

Bravo, high five, well done!....you're doing absolutely the right thing. Your 6 year old mare deserves a chance. Ask any horsey person, and they'll tell you a story of a horse they knew that had been written off by vets - and it came back into full work again. I truly hope your decision on her life does not become tainted by the 100-60% insurance conundrum, although I am sure it won't, as you seem like a genuine caring person.

I don't have an outcome to give to you yet, but you know I have gone the exact same route as you...I am doing everything to the letter regarding what Roger Meacock advised. Feet have been rebalanced, and they will require another shoeing or two to get them going in the right direction.

Regarding farriery: I consistently used the same top class farrier from my gelding being a 3y.o. - up until May this year (he's now 5). In May, my boy moved to a new yard where I was not allowed to use my tried & true farrier - I had to use the one on the yard. After a couple of shoeings by this new guy, my horse's feet were growing very long in the toe, and flattening out and becoming wider (before they were always compact, short and strong). It was since the new farrier started shoeing him, that problems arose. Simultaneously though, the new "pro" rider was forcing my horse to do trot and canter lateral work (the horse was clearly having difficulty with it, and having violent explosive tantrums)...so I am not sure if it was the premature lateral work in a young horse, or the farriery that caused / or precipitated the PSD. (That's if it even is PSD??, as I also did not have MRI done due to exorbitant cost, plus the insurance company were being arsey about the investigations).

Here's the article that seabsicuit2 was referring to... (you need to login)
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10775

I do now wonder if an MRI would show anything in my horse's legs. In any case, I am doing everything for him, he's just a sweetheart, and I would do anything for him. When I took him on, it was a bit like a marriage - "for better or for worse"... I would never shoot a horse because it didn't serve it's purpose (for me) anymore. Everyone has their own circumstances and opinions on this. But I view my horse as a friend and family member, and feel compelled to do absolutely everything in my power and means for him, since he can't do it for himself.

PM me for support, I am here for ya, and am happy to listen to your ongoing updates etc, and I can share mine as well.

By the way, with regards to contacting Roger's current clients - Kate Lukas, eventer, is listed as a client. I contacted her, and she said he is brilliant.
You may need to also recognise if you contact these high level equestrian people, that they may not want to give details of any problems their horses may have...for obvious reasons...
 
Sugarcubes said:
Hey Ducktails,

Bravo, high five, well done!....you're doing absolutely the right thing. Your 6 year old mare deserves a chance. Ask any horsey person, and they'll tell you a story of a horse they knew that had been written off by vets - and it came back into full work again. I truly hope your decision on her life does not become tainted by the 100-60% insurance conundrum, although I am sure it won't, as you seem like a genuine caring person.

I don't have an outcome to give to you yet, but you know I have gone the exact same route as you...I am doing everything to the letter regarding what Roger Meacock advised. Feet have been rebalanced, and they will require another shoeing or two to get them going in the right direction.

Regarding farriery: I consistently used the same top class farrier from my gelding being a 3y.o. - up until May this year (he's now 5). In May, my boy moved to a new yard where I was not allowed to use my tried & true farrier - I had to use the one on the yard. After a couple of shoeings by this new guy, my horse's feet were growing very long in the toe, and flattening out and becoming wider (before they were always compact, short and strong). It was since the new farrier started shoeing him, that problems arose. Simultaneously though, the new "pro" rider was forcing my horse to do trot and canter lateral work (the horse was clearly having difficulty with it, and having violent explosive tantrums)...so I am not sure if it was the premature lateral work in a young horse, or the farriery that caused / or precipitated the PSD. (That's if it even is PSD??, as I also did not have MRI done due to exorbitant cost, plus the insurance company were being arsey about the investigations).

Here's the article that seabsicuit2 was referring to... (you need to login)
http://www.thehorse.com/ViewArticle.aspx?ID=10775

I do now wonder if an MRI would show anything in my horse's legs. In any case, I am doing everything for him, he's just a sweetheart, and I would do anything for him. When I took him on, it was a bit like a marriage - "for better or for worse"... I would never shoot a horse because it didn't serve it's purpose (for me) anymore. Everyone has their own circumstances and opinions on this. But I view my horse as a friend and family member, and feel compelled to do absolutely everything in my power and means for him, since he can't do it for himself.

PM me for support, I am here for ya, and am happy to listen to your ongoing updates etc, and I can share mine as well.

By the way, with regards to contacting Roger's current clients - Kate Lukas, eventer, is listed as a client. I contacted her, and she said he is brilliant.
You may need to also recognise if you contact these high level equestrian people, that they may not want to give details of any problems their horses may have...for obvious reasons...
Click to expand...

Blimey! I used Roger for my dog. He is definitely NOT a cowboy.

My mare was diagnosed with PSD and KS last year. Previously diagnosed with SI. So pretty broken really. But i swear she is sound as a pound now. Ok I know she wont do big things but maybe I need Roger to help re feet and teeth.They have never been considered.But they are part of the whole picture.
 
Upper suspensory problems,now theres a subject and a half. Why do we see so much of it these days. Well ,the stock answer is because modern methods have allowed us to detect and diagnose it. The problem is that even the diagnosis is frequently suspect.It is suggested that it has always been common,but we failed to detect/diagnose it.I cannot accept that. Consider the care and attention that old school trainers and horsemen gave to their horses,if it had been there,they would have noticed.
I am inclined to agree with Roger meacocks position regarding identifying the root causes of the ligament damage,to enable natural healing to occur. There is precious little point in any form of treatment if the cause is still occuring. However this presupposes that we are prepared to accept that there is an external cause,other than a genetic weakness and inability to cope with the stress of training/competition. Or in other words we have to be prepared to consider that we have got it wrong. As a few examples of factors that have changed over the last 30 years. Consider Horsewalkers,constant turning particularly if there is a gripping surface such as rubber. All the twisting load is transmitted up the leg to the hock. What about our use of studs? Even the smallest ponyclub pony seems incomplete these days without eight of them . What does this do to the foots natural requirement to twist on the ground. School surfaces ,and peoples continual use of them,often without the horse being fairly hacked out for weeks on end.
If one is not prepared to consider these posibilities then the idea of a surgical fix would seem logical.But personaly,I believe that the attrition to the ligaments is cumulative and due to many of our accepted modern practices. If the horse is relatively young and one is prepared to honestly reevaluate some aspects of our methods,nature can repair an awfull lot.
There are some aspects of Roger Meacocks web site that make me go:eek::eek:
As soon as Radionics is mentioned for example. But then again its a bit like witchcraft(or modern medecine). If you dont give the patient some fancy magical explanation ,they are less likely to swallow the simple truth that nature is the only thing that heals anything.
 
if you can afford to, i think i would go with what R says and give it one last go....then you know you tried everything and it doesnt sound like your girl is in agony, so worth the extra time safe in the knowledge she is reasonably happy with a good quality of life whilst you try.

i hope it all works out for you and her xxx
 
Yes vets can definately get it wrong. My horse was out on loan and she went lame (never been lame in her life) - the vet had scans and x rays done and nothing was found so he said she needed 6 months box rest! At this point i stepped in and said i wanted to see her (as she was on loan i hadnt wanted to interfer before). When i saw her i immediately saw that her front feet were totally different shapes and she was standing over at the knee - something that she had never done before. I took her to my farrier and after 4hrs of corrective shoeing (in one session!) she walked away from my farrier sound. I actually lodged a complaint with the vet who had treated her and his response was 'he thought her feet should be like that as he didnt know the horse' - surely if you can find nothing else wrong with a horse and they have odd sized feet and are over at the knee this would indicate a further investigation into the shoeing.....
 
I would give her every chance given she's such a young mare. IMO you've spent so much anyway and extra push is neither here no there.

I had Sue Dyson investigate my horses lameness and whilst I accept she is a genious in her field I came out frazzled with scientific explanation and had to rely on my own vet to put the diagnosis in laymans terms.

Sometimes people like Sue are scientists wanting logical conclusions to everything and sometimes things don't have to be so complicated.

If it was me I'd definitely give Roger a chance.
 
I find this fasinating. My horse has just been diagnosed with a hind suspensory problem and he is going back to the vets next week to be re-scanned. They discussed surgery for him. He injured bith FRONT suspensories last year in a fall eventing (I think) and was treated with shockwave therapy and box rest. I have done all the things the vet advised and have bought him back to work slowly. I have had physio as well. He has been fully fit and going wonderfully. Then he I pulled him up at an event as he didnt feel right and now he is lame behind. Went to the vets and told it is unlucky that he has done the hind suspensory but now Im beginning to wonder! I have moved yards and he has had a new farrier that I wasnt impressed with so he is being shod by a new farrier today. Seriously beginning to think about all the options and whether I can aviod the surgery which I wanst keen on in the first place!
Thanks for posting all of this.

I wish you the best of luck with your horse. If you can try everything then I would, at least then you know you have tried everything.
 
i think it sounds like you really want to give you horse another chance, i have seen the difference getting the hoof balance, teeth and back correct can make. one vet tried to diagnose a friends horse with navicular when really all she had was a sore back from a too closly fitted saddle.

one thing i would say though when you get her back into work choose the sorrect saddle of her back will go down hill again
http://www.balanceinternational.com/ these are the best people to talk to once she is right xx
 
My humble opnion is that the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle of the two extreme opinions you have received.

Sue Dyson writes off many horses. She is a very experienced vet and I think you do have to take her opinion seriously, in that at the moment you have a lame horse, incapable of performing to any level, on your hands.

I would say do not completely dismiss this and swing to the opposite end of the scale.

That said, I wouldn't write your horse off just yet. But I do think that if you want a horse with these type of problems to come right/more right to have a purpose then you will have to be patient.

In your shoes I would do the following:
a) out in field for a year minimum
b) address teeth and foot balance pronto
c) bring back into work slowly and carefully, with lots of hacking and long/low work, completely re-evaluate your training to ensure you give your horse the best chance
d) be careful of the surfaces you work on. Deep surfaces are especially bad for horses prone to hock and back pain.

I've got a 6yo with similar issues to yours (although in a much lesser scale, he went to Rossdales and was no where near written off thankfully) yet I am playing it ultra safe with him to give him the best chance of a full competitive future ahead
 
You've spent a lot of money so far which has not resolved things, if they can be, so providing she's not in pain, that can't be relieved etc and you can give her time, they way I look at it is why the hell not, give it a go, what have you got to loose, you've already been told (in the eyes of the vet) just don't get your hopes up.

Hope it all works out, good luck.
 
I have read this guys website before and he reminds me of an American Evangelical Preacher.

As apparently he has cured many horses who have returned to full work I would be trying to contact some of the owners and to find out how that worked out for them.

My opinion of him is pruely based on his website, but that is how he wants to portray himself.
 
Yes, vets really can get it wrong. Trust me on that one.

Echo others. I think its worth the shot with a second opinion...if you can afford it and the horse isn't in iminent pain of course. I am so glad I trused my gut with my mare. Trust yours too.

Finegrs crossed xx
 
Yep, vets can get it wrong. The horse my OH rides was written off - he had a stifle op (owner is not clear on the details so I have no idea what the problem actually was!), and was still lame afterwards, bucking when ridden etc. Ok, he's not in masses of work now, but OH rides him 3 days a week - usually long hacks with lots of hill work, plenty of trotting and cantering. He tries to jump him once a fortnight or so (up to approx 2' which is OH and horses limit at the mo!), and pops over the XC jumps in the gallop fields for fun. Horse has a slightly unusual movement, but is comfortable enough to do all that. If the owner had listened to the first vet, the horse would be a field ornament now.

My old pony came up lame one day, age 33. Swollen foreleg. Called vet, thinking that was going to be it. Vet diagnosed tendonitis, bute, cold hose, keep her in, see what happened, should recover. Another vet was out for something else 3 days later, so he checked her over for me too. He diagnosed check ligament, chuck her out if sound call them if she went lame again. She was happily hooning round the field before I had her PTS age 37, having done her other check ligament in the meantime! We had no scans done, didn't really treat it other than a bit of bute, and she was perfectly sound til the day she died (unrelated).

Current horse came up 3/10 lame on a circle a few years ago, age 25. She has an old tendon injury from before I bought her, so I assumed that had flared up again. I retired her, as she was sound enough in the field. Changed farriers last year, who put some special shoes on her (aluminium racing plates with a rubber bonded sole). Horse was immediately sound again, and she came back into work (I thought she'd like hacking about a bit, just 10 mins walking or so....she decided she didn't so she's retired again!). But she's still sound. The difference a farrier can make!

Old polo pony I used to look after - 2 swollen legs, history of tendon problems. Vet looked and said "at her age, she's a field ornament or PTS". I gave her the best part of a year off, tried again the next year, she stayed sound for 2 more seasons. And even after that, she was sound enough for stick+ball/slow chukkas.

Anyway, the point of my ramblings, is that scans/xrays/surgery aren't the be all end all. Give Roger's treatments a chance. No personal experience, but if your mare isn't horribly uncomfortable, and is sound enough to potter round a field stuffing her face with grass, she'll have a nice year out and you may just get your horse back at the end of it.
 
Since the horse is still young I agree with the others about giving her a chance, so long as she is not in great pain. I would turn her out with no shoes though (although keep the feet trimmed) as that would allow the foot to grow how the horse wants it and not how the shoe wants it. Maybe the correct foot for this horse is not a "pretty foot" but one that grows to support the structures above.

Dr Green and very gentle exercise can work wonders.
 
ORANGEHORSE said:
Since the horse is still young I agree with the others about giving her a chance, so long as she is not in great pain. I would turn her out with no shoes though (although keep the feet trimmed) as that would allow the foot to grow how the horse wants it and not how the shoe wants it. Maybe the correct foot for this horse is not a "pretty foot" but one that grows to support the structures above.

Dr Green and very gentle exercise can work wonders.
Click to expand...

I agree with the above.

I sent my horse to AHT 2 years ago for loss of performance investigations after a mysterious collapse at an event and then just being stuffy and off afterwards. My vet suspected sacroiliac, but bonescan showed up absolutely nothing. one of the cleanest they'd seen. So on further investigation he was diagnosed with suspensory ligament dismitis in both hocks. Treatment options were discussed etc. but my vet told me that the damage to the hocks my horse had would be seen on pretty much any horse of the same age. I decided not to treat.

About 18 months ago I took his shoes off - well actually he ripped his fronts off and all of his hoof but that's another story - short story he went barefoot. All the while I'd had him shod one of his hooves had been really wonky, hoof wall almost went vertically on the inside. Since taking his shoes off this hoof has continued to change shape and now appears much more syemetrical. I am not suggestion this was the cause of any of our problems....but I now have a much happier horse.
 
im another one to agree, give her a chance. Ref Bob L, he is not qualified and as he is some way from you take a look at the british dentistry website and find a dentist nearer to you and then if your unsure ask if other people have used them, good luck xx
 
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