Desperate Help

cartridge_gal

Member
Joined
29 December 2012
Messages
13
Visit site
I have a 5 year old ISH whom I have owned since last October. I was told he had been Autumn hunting (pictures to prove) so took him hound exercising this January as the wet weather has postponed hunting and I thought this would be an ideal opportunity to introduce slowly. He went berserk, rearing in the roads, running backwards, just out of control and did not settle the whole time we were out. A very experience rider from the hunt offered to take my horse on a very quiet day a few weeks later and after 1 1/2s later he brought my horse back to me and said he was too dangerous to continue. He was doing exactly the same thing with him as he had with me. Well the hounds have been out a couple of times me with the huntsmen and even at the end of the drive without him seeing them he started going mental in his stable. In every other way he is the golden horse but with the season approaching, my nerves are getting the better of me and I am contemplating never hunting again or selling him even though that is why I brought him. He is a ID x TB. He just seems to loose the plot when he sees hounds. I really need some help as I love him dearly and the thought of selling him breaks my heart but I am not sure he will ever be able to hunt safely. :(
 

Attie

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
135
Location
County Durham
Visit site
Oh dear :-( poor you.
If your youngster did hunt last year- and did so all ok judging by the photos you've seen- and now he is behaving the way he is, one possibility is that he has had a big fright of some sort...not necessarily caused by hounds but while out hunting and he then associates the fright with hounds/ hunting. How is he riding out in other circumstances? Is he safe/ ok then? Is it just when he hears/ sees the hounds?
 

cartridge_gal

Member
Joined
29 December 2012
Messages
13
Visit site
He is absolutely safe as houses hacking out. I have been hound walking for a 3 months and even when he smelt the hound pups walking past the kennel he went berserk. He was okay after a month but to start with was snorting and stamping etc. As soon as he hears and or hears the hounds he looses the plot!!!!!
Oh dear :-( poor you.
If your youngster did hunt last year- and did so all ok judging by the photos you've seen- and now he is behaving the way he is, one possibility is that he has had a big fright of some sort...not necessarily caused by hounds but while out hunting and he then associates the fright with hounds/ hunting. How is he riding out in other circumstances? Is he safe/ ok then? Is it just when he hears/ sees the hounds?
 

cptrayes

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 March 2008
Messages
14,748
Visit site
Do the photos you were shown all look like they were from one day? It's not uncommon for them to be fine the first time out, only to behave worse on day two.

I had a horse a year ago who was a controllable handful the first day and completely and utterly lethal on day two. So much so that we were out only fifteen minutes before I was on my back on a tarmac road, and shortly after he was himself on his back in the back of the lorry.

It is possible that the photos you've seen have been from the first day(s) that he went out, and that they actually sold him because his behaviour deteriorated, or that they did not even know.

I would not personally hunt your horse if an experienced hunter said he was too dangerous and brought him back. I'm sorry, but I think if I were you I'd sell him and buy another to hunt on if you are set on hunting.
 
Last edited:

AdorableAlice

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 October 2011
Messages
13,121
Visit site
I had one like this years ago. Frightened me witless. He was sorted out by my friend who is a whip. She took the horse cubbing every morning and on the Sunday he went on a pleasure ride. It took a fortnight and we visited 4 packs. He finally settled and went on to give me 14 super seasons. Obviously there wasn't a lot left of him after that amount of work but he soon picked up again.

He was also stabled at kennels and left to get over himself. He soon realised he was the only one in the yard being a pratt and no amount of bouncing around made any difference.
 

Attie

Well-Known Member
Joined
27 May 2012
Messages
135
Location
County Durham
Visit site
Well the good starting point is that you do have a sane and sensible horse then....underneath! That is really positive and must give you some confidence you can get him over the phobia/ hysteria with hounds. It's just working out how you can give him regular exposure to them and build his confidence without endangering yourself and others. Is there any way you can stable him at the kennels and maybe take him when clubbing starts and leave him in the lorry with back open....that sort of thing.
 

cartridge_gal

Member
Joined
29 December 2012
Messages
13
Visit site
I have sent a text to the lady who exercises the hunt horses to see if that could be a possibility?! Thank you for all your comments and advice. I just wish he could learn to love it and we could have many happy years of hunting in front of us. Never known anything like this before!!!!
 

Orangehorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2005
Messages
13,712
Visit site
I had one like this years ago. Frightened me witless. He was sorted out by my friend who is a whip. She took the horse cubbing every morning and on the Sunday he went on a pleasure ride. It took a fortnight and we visited 4 packs. He finally settled and went on to give me 14 super seasons. Obviously there wasn't a lot left of him after that amount of work but he soon picked up again.

He was also stabled at kennels and left to get over himself. He soon realised he was the only one in the yard being a pratt and no amount of bouncing around made any difference.

Yes, I knew a horse like this, bred by the owner to hunt from a favourite hunter mare, and was a huge big horse with a not very big rider that was uncontrollable with excitment, tried by several people! In the end, the huntsman or whipper in took the horse out every day to various packs, it was kill or cure and it did cure him and he carried on hunting for many seasons.
 

Clodagh

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 August 2005
Messages
27,094
Location
Devon
Visit site
Take his shoes off and go for a 5 mile hack on the roads the day before going hunting. Then go hunting every day until he is exhausted. Cruel but effective! I really would do that, he needs to be bottomed out. Unless you can massively bribe the huntsman and stable him at the kennels for a fortnight.
 

L&M

Well-Known Member
Joined
7 March 2008
Messages
6,379
Location
up a hill
Visit site
I bought a 6yr old that had hunted a full season with his previous owners and came with good references, and plenty of photographic evidence.

I Autumn hunted him a few times accompanied by my son on his pony and he was fab - but when I took him without his 'buddy' he completely changed and was downright dangerous. I had no brakes at all, he lost all sense of self preservation, and he kept overtaking the field master which was hugely embarrassing. To top it all, on the third attempt he got himself into such a tizzy he tried to climb out of the lorry leaving the meet.

After a discussion with his previous owners, it transpired he had only ever hunted with others from the same yard and had never been asked to go independently - it had never occured to me to ask whether he had been hunted on his own, so lesson well learnt. I can only assume it was a form of separation anxiety, but sold him on as didn't feel capable of sorting out the issue.

Good luck with yours - tbh if the horse scares you I would be looking at either getting help or selling on, after all hunting is meant to be fun!
 

Maesfen

Extremely Old Nag!
Joined
20 June 2005
Messages
16,720
Location
Wynnstay - the Best!
photobucket.com
I have to agree with Clodagh and AA; he needs bottoming and he needs acclimatizing so that in the end he is thoroughly bored with hounds being about; he doesn't need to be thrashed about it, just worked until he's very very tired and I also would give him nothing but old hay or sparse grazing so he doesn't have a lot of fuel in the tank. Because he's in work and mostly fit it won't do his body or limbs any harm but don't do it if he's completely unfit, that wouldn't be fair.

Good luck, he sounds like he's worth persevering with.
 

AdorableAlice

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 October 2011
Messages
13,121
Visit site
I have to agree with Clodagh and AA; he needs bottoming and he needs acclimatizing so that in the end he is thoroughly bored with hounds being about; he doesn't need to be thrashed about it, just worked until he's very very tired and I also would give him nothing but old hay or sparse grazing so he doesn't have a lot of fuel in the tank. Because he's in work and mostly fit it won't do his body or limbs any harm but don't do it if he's completely unfit, that wouldn't be fair.

Good luck, he sounds like he's worth persevering with.

My lad was turned out and caught at 4am every morning before being put on the box to trek off to whatever pack we were going with. Feed wise he had a handful of damp bran with salt in it. He was a Welsh Cob, a big one at 16h and mad as a box of frogs, he was nicknamed The Welsh Dragon due to his tendency to sweat and steam.

He was a super hunter, strong but safe and in 14 years I only hit the deck three times, twice jumped off and once by corning too sharply, skidding through a sprout field and ending up in a pond, hounds hunted me after that episode !
 

Goldenstar

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 March 2011
Messages
47,047
Visit site
Some horses don't hunt they find it too exciting.
My best event horse was bought as a hunter she was lethal truely lethal at the hounds that's why she ended up eventing .
It you love the horse do other things ,if it's a hunter you want sell and buy a hunter .
Having said I have turned a couple of really difficult ones into hunters , to do this you have to be prepared to and have the time to go autumn hunting every day the hounds go out four or five mornings a week and then hunt two or three days a week until they get it .
That's great if you enjoy it and like the challenge not so great if you don't .
 

cptrayes

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 March 2008
Messages
14,748
Visit site
Take his shoes off and go for a 5 mile hack on the roads the day before going hunting. Then go hunting every day until he is exhausted. Cruel but effective! I really would do that, he needs to be bottomed out. Unless you can massively bribe the huntsman and stable him at the kennels for a fortnight.

Ummm, illegal????


OP PLEASE do not risk leaving this horse in a lorry to keep him calm. That's how mine ended up with me calling the Fire Brigade to get him back the right way up. The repair bill for the lottery was no joke either.
 

Mike007

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 May 2009
Messages
8,222
Visit site
Ummm, illegal????
Not sure where you are comming from with the illegal stuff.Too many people make the mistake of getting a horse too fit before hunting. The second mistake is to keep them out too long. A super fit horse will probably kill you at the first draw. A tired horse kept out too long will run on adrenalin and go hyper . so take home early. Go for meets with only a few people out , and have a helper to re box horse. You may need them in a big way.
 

Houndman

Well-Known Member
Joined
9 April 2010
Messages
209
Visit site
Sounds like your horse just needs to get the idea that hunting is supposed to be hard work rather than something to get worked up over.

As has been said already, only feed hay. Definitely non-heating hard food if you need anything else.

If your hunt will let you during the summer months, can you follow them whilst they are hacking out with the hounds during the summer - it will just be trotting round and round the roads with no excitement. You could start off at a slight distance behind them. It would be a good idea to get him lathered up and worked before you join them exercising so he's not fresh at the start.

I would take your horse on a really long hack to tire him out totally before turning up at the hunt. Hack him to the hunt if you can, even if it takes you a couple of hours to get there. Avoid going to the meet - join them later on.

The best way would be to stable or graze him up at the kennels for a while if possible.

I'm not sure about hacking without shoes if the horse is not used to it or you could end up with foot problems. If absolutely everything else fails, then it could be worth trying, but only as a last resort.

As already said, leaving a horse in a lorry has the opposite effect to calming a horse.
 
Last edited:

cartridge_gal

Member
Joined
29 December 2012
Messages
13
Visit site
Thank you all so much for your help and advice. I best get out there and have another go using your advice. And of course if anybody wants a days hunting on a mental youngster, then let me know haha xx
No extra advice to that already given, just wanted to say - keep us updated, and hope all ends well for you.
 

cptrayes

Well-Known Member
Joined
4 March 2008
Messages
14,748
Visit site
Ummm, illegal????
Not sure where you are comming from with the illegal stuff.Too many people make the mistake of getting a horse too fit before hunting. The second mistake is to keep them out too long. A super fit horse will probably kill you at the first draw. A tired horse kept out too long will run on adrenalin and go hyper . so take home early. Go for meets with only a few people out , and have a helper to re box horse. You may need them in a big way.

The recommendation was to take the shoes of to slow the horse down Mike. It works only if they are sore, and is therefore illegal.
 

Orangehorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2005
Messages
13,712
Visit site
Hacking to the meet is a good idea, if you can get there along reasonable roads. We used to hack to a meet with ponies, hunt all day and then hack back. But the roads were less busy in those days.
 

Ditchjumper2

Well-Known Member
Joined
17 September 2009
Messages
1,593
Location
East Anglia
Visit site
I agree with Mike007. If you want your horse to be a hunter there are ways and means but it will take time and effort. No feed, not too fit and be prepared to hack to meets, hound rides and stay out long enough but not until he is off his feet. Keep going until it becomes the norm for him. Some may withold water to take the edge off him, I am not saying do that as the gestapo would have me shot BUT it does work. You will also find the more time you spend on his back the better your relationship will be...if he doesn't hurt you first!!
 

amandap

Well-Known Member
Joined
23 June 2009
Messages
6,949
Visit site
Some of the comments on here are awful.

Leave without water? Leave on lorry? Take his shoes off and ride him until he's footsore?
You left out work them until they are knackered and I assume give in! I looked but walked out again yesterday.
Take shoes of is especially dangerous if the horse is wearing shoes because hooves are compromised. I am reminded of reading someones advice to rasp hooves short to "slow them down"!
 

Orangehorse

Well-Known Member
Joined
25 November 2005
Messages
13,712
Visit site
You don't want to ride them to the point of exhaustion, as that is when injuries happen. They need to go out often enough that they are a bit tired and it is becoming work rather than mind-blowing excitement.

Apart from the hunter I knew personally, I have also heard of people who have cured strong runaways by simply giving lots of work. In one case a 35 mile ride - trailered back home and taken out again the next day, and the next until horse realised that it wasn't such a good idea to set off at full speed, and another personal story of a similar horse that was allowed to go as fast as it liked up a hill on Dartmoor, taken back down again and taken up again, and once more, and then taken out the next day until the horse realised that it was necessary to gallop everywhere.
 

SpringArising

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 May 2014
Messages
5,255
Visit site
You left out work them until they are knackered and I assume give in! I looked but walked out again yesterday.
Take shoes of is especially dangerous if the horse is wearing shoes because hooves are compromised. I am reminded of reading someones advice to rasp hooves short to "slow them down"!

The general consensus seems to be that anything goes with hunting; at least on this thread anyway. Anyone else on here would be burnt at the stake for doing such things.
 

AdorableAlice

Well-Known Member
Joined
24 October 2011
Messages
13,121
Visit site
There is nothing wrong with giving a horse enough work to make it tractable, safe and pleasant to ride. Personally I would not take shoes off or withhold water, but work them I certainly would and have.

Producing a fit for purpose horse is a skill, not just for the horse to perform on the day but to keep performing and stay sound.
 

Exploding Chestnuts

Well-Known Member
Joined
22 June 2013
Messages
8,436
Visit site
I might ask the hunt if they want him for the season, or send him to someone to sort out, but be careful, no point in breaking his spirit.
If they can't sort him then he can't be sold as a hunter.
I am assuming you don't have three hours per day to exercise him.
 
Top