Desperate Help

Exploding Chestnuts

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You don't want to ride them to the point of exhaustion, as that is when injuries happen. They need to go out often enough that they are a bit tired and it is becoming work rather than mind-blowing excitement.

Apart from the hunter I knew personally, I have also heard of people who have cured strong runaways by simply giving lots of work. In one case a 35 mile ride - trailered back home and taken out again the next day, and the next until horse realised that it wasn't such a good idea to set off at full speed, and another personal story of a similar horse that was allowed to go as fast as it liked up a hill on Dartmoor, taken back down again and taken up again, and once more, and then taken out the next day until the horse realised that it was necessary to gallop everywhere.
Problem is that horse is fine under normal conditions, but freaks out when excited.
 

Houndman

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The trick is to get the horse to think that hunting is hard work and not play. It just needs work, work, work and more hard work until it realises.

Tire the horse out before you join the hunt.
 

AdorableAlice

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The trick is to get the horse to think that hunting is hard work and not play. It just needs work, work, work and more hard work until it realises.

Tire the horse out before you join the hunt.

Very few horse owners would know how to work a horse hard. I sat in the lorry on Thursday at an unaff dressage show and listened to people talking about how hard their horse had worked, 10 minutes warm up and 4 1/2 minute test. Electrolytes to the fore.
 

Goldenstar

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The trick is to get the horse to think that hunting is hard work and not play. It just needs work, work, work and more hard work until it realises.

Tire the horse out before you join the hunt.

This is the way to do it .
On of MrGS 's best horses was ridden for three hours the day before hunting fed only hay and hacked an hour and half to the meet it took us time it get him to come to hand but he was an ace horse once we did .
But you do need the ability to spend time on this , settling this chap took over my life for most of a season I was sick of the sight of him by march .
 

Ditchjumper2

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No one is advocating cruelty on here, merely ways to make a hunter. A lot of horses end up being offered for free to become a hunter as a last resort when their owner s can do nothing with them. A horse who won't let you near it soon becomes more tractable if it needs a drink. Once you can handle them it is a start. As I said before there are ways and means. The problem with most horses today is too much food, too little work and too little discipline. Most will hunt, but it takes time and experience to achieve it......and yes people who hunt do have a different attitude and approach.
 

MILLGREENLADY

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Very few horse owners would know how to work a horse hard. I sat in the lorry on Thursday at an unaff dressage show and listened to people talking about how hard their horse had worked, 10 minutes warm up and 4 1/2 minute test. Electrolytes to the fore.

this is great totally agree, they need to work on a hunt/race yard to understand how to work a horse hard !
 

honetpot

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I fed up of seeing people ask what calmer should they give to their horse or pony when really all it needs is an extra hours exercise a day and a lot less food, but of course that takes some effort on the riders part. Most just need long days and little dinners.
 

Maesfen

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I fed up of seeing people ask what calmer should they give to their horse or pony when really all it needs is an extra hours exercise a day and a lot less food, but of course that takes some effort on the riders part. Most just need long days and little dinners.

This should be fixed to every forum in bright lights - but you'd still never get the message across to those who treat their horses like pets instead of the working animals they should be.
 

Moomin1

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Some of the comments on this thread have got to be the lowest I have ever read on this forum. Ashamed at the human race.
 

Houndman

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This should be fixed to every forum in bright lights - but you'd still never get the message across to those who treat their horses like pets instead of the working animals they should be.

Some of the comments on this thread have got to be the lowest I have ever read on this forum. Ashamed at the human race.

One contradictory comment after another! If you go with the attitude that your horse is a pet, and indulge it, you will never cure the problem. If it becomes dangerous and unmanageable totally you may never correct it and the knackers is the only route.

I have spent time with a working ranch in the USA and they are very adept at addressing such problems. Spending day after day rounding up cattle soon gets the horse used to work.

Consider if you are going on for example a mountain climbing weekend, yes you will get very excited if you go now and again, but supposing it were every weekend for 5 months, you'd soon loose your initial excitement and settle into a routine. Like starting a new job, after the first week or so you settle into it.
 

Moomin1

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One contradictory comment after another! If you go with the attitude that your horse is a pet, and indulge it, you will never cure the problem. If it becomes dangerous and unmanageable totally you may never correct it and the knackers is the only route.

I have spent time with a working ranch in the USA and they are very adept at addressing such problems. Spending day after day rounding up cattle soon gets the horse used to work.

Consider if you are going on for example a mountain climbing weekend, yes you will get very excited if you go now and again, but supposing it were every weekend for 5 months, you'd soon loose your initial excitement and settle into a routine.

Erm, those comments were written by two different people...
 

Houndman

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One was clearly in response to the previous! If you want an animal like that, go and buy a rabbit.

Treat a horse like a lap dog and it will always beat you!

The horses on the ranch knew their job. They were keen and enjoyed their work and were well cared for, but were never overly excitable.

It's the same with these reports of dog attacks. Many of the dogs had been poorly managed and trained over their lives and did not have instilled into them what is acceptable behaviour and what is not, with disasterous results.

Firm but fair is the way to be.
 
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Moomin1

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One was clearly in response to the previous!

Treat a horse like a lap dog and it will always beat you!

Er, no, my response was not to Maesfen.

My response was to the people who suggest withholding water, removing shoes, and generally thrashing horses into the ground to knacker out before a hunt...

FWIW, I have never withheld water, removed shoes, or knackered any horse out in order to gain some 'respect' from them. And I'm so glad the previous owner of my mare didn't either..
 

Houndman

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Well you weren't specific were you now!!!

Removing shoes is a bad idea as it can lead to injury, and most people did not agree with it ayway. Witholding water can also lead to injury as muscles cramp up.

We were not avocating totally exhausting a horse before a hunt, merely getting it well worked to "take the edge off it" as they say.

It's not like the classic way to cure a bolter by forcing it to keep going and going until it is truly tired, as after this you generally walk back home and that's it. If you don't address this it can be very dangerous so it has to be done!

Someone gave me a bolter to see to once. There is this straight forestry track which goes into an incline for about 2 miles. We started cantering at the start then sure as predicted, the horse bolted. I kept it going until the top. It happened one more time a week later and we did the same. After this, it never did it again.
 
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Fides

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I have spent time with a working ranch in the USA and they are very adept at addressing such problems. Spending day after day rounding up cattle soon gets the horse used to work.

I have done a ranch holiday too - doesn't make me an expert, and some of the things I witnessed I wouldn't repeat either.

Your posts have a lost of unnecessary exclamation marks which come across as more argumentative than helpful
 

amandap

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The point is working a horse so hard and not feeding it enough energy to do that hard work appears to be used as a tool to subjugate horses. Making the horse uncomfortable physically by removing shoes, with holding water etc. is from the same belief - just another way to subjugate the horse.
Just working a disturbed/difficult horse may be effective but is any one doing this looking at why these horses are objecting? It is an attitude of work it hard so it gives in and behaves as far as I can see!

If this was a truism no horses not worked this hard would be compliant which is clearly not the case
 
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Happy Hunter

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There is this straight forestry track which goes into an incline for about 2 miles.

I would pay very good money to have one of those near me! :)
Currently struggling endlessly to keep the belly off my Hunter come eventer.

I think OP your horse sounds like it may have a bad experience somewhere, as its such a specific reaction to the hounds in particular.

Same as a fear of heights etc. just constant and boring exposure. In the interests of human, horse and hound safety I agree with others, take a tired horse, for a small period. Increasing the time of 'exposure' according to results.
 

Goldenstar

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Er, no, my response was not to Maesfen.

My response was to the people who suggest withholding water, removing shoes, and generally thrashing horses into the ground to knacker out before a hunt...

FWIW, I have never withheld water, removed shoes, or knackered any horse out in order to gain some 'respect' from them. And I'm so glad the previous owner of my mare didn't either..

Working a horse three hours in a day is not a unreasonable or unfair thing to do a healthy horse hacking a horse from home to a meet is not unreasonable .
Repeating going hunting until it becomes less exciting is a sensible way of teaching them to pace themselves and that it's not maddenly exciting .
It's got naff all about respect it's about giving them enough work to learn their job in a safe way .
Horse can take a lot of work in experienced hands they take a lot of work in the wild it's natural for them to move for large parts of the day .
However withholding water from a hunter is in my opinion unethical and nuts as it's very likely to colic after a hard day and sending out a horse with severely sore feet well that just nuts on many levels that's using pain to try to get the behaviour you what that just not on .
But work that's another thing our horse was fit strong and experienced he loved his job but had thoroughly frightened his previous owner when he met a regime that matched his bravery and energy levels he learned to pace himself .
All we where doing was providing him with the work he needed .
 
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amandap

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There is nothing wrong with repeated exposure, it's how it is done and the previous preparation that is important in my view.
 

Houndman

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FYI I was on a placement, not a holiday at the ranch!

There were some really expert horsemen there with a wealth of knowledge and experience. A lot of the horse training was holistic and never once did I see anyone doing anything unethical!
 

Fides

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FYI I was on a placement, not a holiday at the ranch!

There were some really expert horsemen there with a wealth of knowledge and experience. A lot of the horse training was holistic and never once did I see anyone doing anything unethical!

Really? Are all the exclamation marks really needed? If someone has a different opinion to you (or a different experience) shouting louder is not going to change is, though a well reasoned response might. Heavens, what is next? Caps lock?
 

Ditchjumper2

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Just for the record I do not withold water from my horses nor wouls I. I am referring to free horses given as a last resort to turn them into a hunter or else they get shot. A horse in a stable that won't let you near it will become approachable if it wants to drink...is what i said. You have to be very careful doing this.

I reiterate that the majority need less hard food, more turnout and more work. Hacking to the meet, hacking home , routine and discipline and perserverance are all that is usually required. Often the ones that take the longest to make become the best hunters. i am referring to true hunters not just horses that hunt.
 
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