Desperate measures - 'UK foxhunters should be protected ethnic minority'

Tiddlypom said:
Hunting Kind devotees are bat sh1t crazy, that is just the bonkers idea that they’d dream up and believe in.

Their legal team will be rubbing their hands in glee anticipating a nice fat fee coming their way for tilting at windmills.
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Ethical veganism is protected under the same laws that they are aiming for; one would struggle to justify that being an ethnic group. So although ridiculous, perhaps not as much of a bonkers idea as it sounds…
 
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VictoriaSponge said:
Ethical veganism is protected under the same laws that they are aiming for; one would struggle to justify that being an ethnic group. So although ridiculous, perhaps not as much of a bonkers idea as it sounds…
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I see what you mean, but veganism is and always has been perfectly legal. Hunting foxes with hounds has been outlawed for the last 20 years, even though we all know that it still widely goes on.

Hunting Kind want hunters to be given a teacher’s note allowing them to break the law ‘cos it’s their tradition. Sad people.
 
cauda equina said:
Seriously?
www.theguardian.com

Pro-foxhunting group says UK hunters should be protected ethnic minority

Chair of Hunting Kind says he has built legal case to obtain same protection as Roma and LGBTQ+ people
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
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I thought you were taking the piss when I read the title. Seldom have I read a more amusing article. What planet are these people on. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

However at last I can find something where I am in total agreement with a labour minister

The former Labour minister Mike Foster said the group had lost the plot. He wrote on X: “‘Show me an example of people who have lost the plot,’ the hunt lobby never fail to disappoint.”
 
paddy555 said:
I thought you were taking the piss when I read the title. Seldom have I read a more amusing article. What planet are these people on. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

However at last I can find something where I am in total agreement with a labour minister

The former Labour minister Mike Foster said the group had lost the plot. He wrote on X: “‘Show me an example of people who have lost the plot,’ the hunt lobby never fail to disappoint.”
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Someone's taking the piss but that ent me!
 
Tiddlypom said:
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I see what you mean, but veganism is and always has been perfectly legal. Hunting foxes with hounds has been outlawed for the last 20 years, even though we all know that it still widely goes on.

Hunting Kind want hunters to be given a teacher’s note allowing them to break the law ‘cos it’s their tradition. Sad people.
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No quite, but my point is more that although laughable, I’m not convinced that the proposition is as far fetched as it may seem. If the term “ethnic group” can be stretched enough to include veganism (which regardless of its rights and wrongs is certainly not an ethnicity in the common sense of the word) it’s not outside the realms of possibility that hunts could make a case for holding “protected beliefs”. As you say I’d like to belive that the legalities of the beliefs would provide the answer, but if it does go to court I doubt that it will be that clean cut.
 
VictoriaSponge said:
No quite, but my point is more that although laughable, I’m not convinced that the proposition is as far fetched as it may seem. If the term “ethnic group” can be stretched enough to include veganism (which regardless of its rights and wrongs is certainly not an ethnicity in the common sense of the word) it’s not outside the realms of possibility that hunts could make a case for holding “protected beliefs”. As you say I’d like to belive that the legalities of the beliefs would provide the answer, but if it does go to court I doubt that it will be that clean cut.
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The vegan thing was about it being a protected belief I thought, is that not different to it being defined as an ethnic group?
 
SaddlePsych'D said:
The vegan thing was about it being a protected belief I thought, is that not different to it being defined as an ethnic group?
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Very possibly, used somewhat interchangeably in what I’ve read, I think they’re going for “minority group” so would assume similar applies to veganism. But regardless of that example, it is a strange law to interpret as to where and where not it is applicable and will be interesting to see how it develops…
 
You could say the same about serial killers, that they have experienced negativity from others for their beliefs and should be protected from it, poor things.

Doesn't mean they should be allowed to carry on being serial killers though.

I think this is likely what Hunting Kind are aiming for - but being allowed to hold beliefs and not be discriminated against or abused for them is (hopefully!) different to being allowed to hold beliefs and therefore being allowed to carry them out even though they are illegal.
 
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Is it not like Inuit people being allowed to hunt whales? Or is that something completely different? (Legally, not morally).
 
Yes, they've chosen the wrong Protected Characteristic from the Equality Act.

They mean 'religion and belief' which covers ethical veganism, critical race theory, gender identity, etc.

The belief needs to be 'worthy of respect in a democratic society' and meet grainger principles of being well considered, weighty and genuinely held.

I'm not actually sure what their belief is. That fox hunting is beneficial? That it's not cruel? I suspect you could argue those points, fair chance it could be deemed a protected belief. All that means is that they couldn't be discriminated against for holding that belief or expressing that belief, it doesn't mean they would be allowed to hunt.
 
It's been illegal to kill a gannet for over 50 years but if you are from the northern tip of the Isle of Lewis you can hunt "Guga" (baby gannets) on Sùla Sgeir because it's an ancient part of your culture and traditions. Not that I approve but just saying the law can be weird!🤷‍♀️
 
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This is from the Hunting Kind website.

Statement of philosophical belief
A protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010

  • The countryside of the UK has been farmed and managed for thousands of years based on sharing space and sustainable co-existence with animals.
  • Humanity has a responsibility of stewardship towards the countryside and for sustainable wildlife management.
  • Natural and traditional hunting with animals for pest control and wildlife management is sustainable, ecologically sensitive, naturally selective and humane.
Here’s a link to a brief on line questionnaire that they’ve put up for their groupies. Though it is open for all to respond to.

huntingkind.com

Protected Belief Questionnaire - Hunting Kind

Join Us In Our Minority Belief Campaign! Loading…
huntingkind.com huntingkind.com
 
Tiddlypom said:
This is from the Hunting Kind website.

Statement of philosophical belief
A protected characteristic under the Equality Act 2010

  • The countryside of the UK has been farmed and managed for thousands of years based on sharing space and sustainable co-existence with animals.
  • Humanity has a responsibility of stewardship towards the countryside and for sustainable wildlife management.
  • Natural and traditional hunting with animals for pest control and wildlife management is sustainable, ecologically sensitive, naturally selective and humane.
Here’s a link to a brief on line questionnaire that they’ve put up for their groupies. Though it is open for all to respond to.

huntingkind.com

Protected Belief Questionnaire - Hunting Kind

Join Us In Our Minority Belief Campaign! Loading…
huntingkind.com huntingkind.com
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I agree with the second of those three statements, but not the others

And I think it's a bit of a stretch to dress up your hobby as a philosophical belief
 
I’m not sure whether they will be successful however stranger things have happened.
Travellers have protection in law which requires local authorities to provide sites for them. Whilst this is is a long held practice through generations there would be an argument that this is not a religion it’s a life choice
Similarly veganism or vegetarianism are life choices not religions.
If the basis is not religion but long held practice and or ethical belief then they may be able to demonstrate that this is the case. Especially if it is not to reinstate fox-hunting but to retain trail hunting.
 
From the latest post on the Hunting Kind FB page. It links to an article in the Telegraph, which I seem to be able to view despite not being a subscriber.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Rural Britons are victims of the tyranny of the urban majority

The Hunting Act infringes on the human rights of a sizeable minority – and has demonstrably failed the fox
www.telegraph.co.uk www.telegraph.co.uk

The tragedy is that the Hunting Act preceded the Equality Act of 2010. According to advice provided to a new countryside organisation, Hunting Kind (on whose advisory panel I sit), by a leading human rights KC, had it been the other way around, the ban would have come up against the protected minority status of hunting folk.

The hunting community may be able to demonstrate that it meets all the criteria of other protected minority groups. It is therefore possible that the debanking of hunts or the cancellation of hunt balls by hotels on judgmental grounds could soon be ruled discriminatory.

If rumours of an incipient private member’s bill are true, there will soon be headlines about banning trail hunting, an equestrian sport that has nothing to do with natural hunting.
 
I really don't think you can liken hunters to the Travelling community, the latter of which have been a distinctive ethnic group in the UK and Ireland for a very, very long time. They're not just people choosing to live in caravans. Obviously some people from other backgrounds do choose to live full time in vehicles (my ex lived in a bus for ten years), but they'd be the first to tell you that they're not Travellers.

The hunt lobby's arrogance makes me want to throw objects at my computer screen and is sort of insulting to actual minority groups. A hobby does not equal 'protected belief system.' A bunch of toffs whining because the majority of the British public has turned against their hobby doesn't equal that, either. And of course, they trot out the old 'we are the stewards of the countryside' BS. Yes, tell that to the other farmers and horse owners who seem to have constant issues with hunts damaging their land and distressing their animals.
 
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