Developing a more uphill and collected canter.

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Darremi

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I recently moved up to Intermediate/2* and the main problems I have been having in the tests are with the canter.

My horse has a lovely rounded canter (he is a WB) but he goes too much on his forehand still and we basically get no collection at all! He is not physically able to collect at the moment without breaking because he does not engage behind in the canter.

This makes counter canter very difficult as well. My last test the judge wrote the comment "counter gallop!" next that movement ;).

I am now going to be working intensely on the canter this summer to try and improve our scores. Up until now I have been doing transitions and 15m circles, but I am not sure I am really riding the canter itself properly in terms of my seat, leg and hands.

I wondered if any dressage people had advice on particularly good exercises/tips to improve collection and engagement in the canter (maybe with poles or not?).

Thanks in advance :).
 
I've not competed at your level, but I had a similar problem with my current horse and the following exercises really helped improve his balance and collect up his canter.

1) 'hot' transitions within and between the pace. I.e. lots of lengthen shorten, collect, move forward, walk->canter, canter->walk transitions in a random order with only a few strides between each one.
2) Canter shoulder in. This really helped, especially on the centre line.
3) riding 20 and 15m 'squares' rather than circles. To get a good square turn you really have to collect and keep the pace nice and slow.
 
All lateral work will help develop the more uphill canter but particularly the shoulder in .
As will the counter canter .
As will making lots of transitions in a circle .
And checking you adjust the positioning if neck in the canter side to side and up and down a horse blocked in the neck rarely canters uphill .
Learning to ride in a very slight shoulder fore positioning will help .
 
Great exercises. But what if horse is too speedy/unbalanced in canter for these?

Ie my welshie has a fab trot can extend/collect etc
But the canter feels too fast to even begin doing shoulder in. We've just about managed leg yield which was very rushed

I'm concentrating on trot canter short bursts and elk to canter ATM. But doesn't seem to be improving

Having a lesson on thurs so hope to start to sort this
 
Goldenstar said:
All lateral work will help develop the more uphill canter but particularly the shoulder in .
As will the counter canter .
As will making lots of transitions in a circle .
And checking you adjust the positioning if neck in the canter side to side and up and down a horse blocked in the neck rarely canters uphill .
Learning to ride in a very slight shoulder fore positioning will help .
Click to expand...

Shazzababs said:
I've not competed at your level, but I had a similar problem with my current horse and the following exercises really helped improve his balance and collect up his canter.

1) 'hot' transitions within and between the pace. I.e. lots of lengthen shorten, collect, move forward, walk->canter, canter->walk transitions in a random order with only a few strides between each one.
2) Canter shoulder in. This really helped, especially on the centre line.
3) riding 20 and 15m 'squares' rather than circles. To get a good square turn you really have to collect and keep the pace nice and slow.
Click to expand...

Thank you, that is very useful advice.

My horse is stiff through his shoulder on the left rein so I have to work very hard to get his shoulders upright in the left shoulder-in. I definitely think canter shoulder-in/shoulder-fore will help in that respect, because his shoulder completely collapses to the inside in left canter.

I like the square idea.

Lots to work on!!

Cheers :D
 
Think this thread is quite apt for us too - Dante's canter is 'fine' but lacks roundness & adjustability. I think soulful's question is good, what DO you do if your horse doesn't feel ready to do the exercises smoothly? Continue with transitions? Do the exercises & see how they feel, accept that the horse IS going to make mistakes but work with the ones you both find easiest & work up, dealing with the mistakes best you can? This seems logical but sometimes I find it hard to work out whether I'm asking too much, doing it wrong, or the horse just isn't trying as hard as necessary (he does have his 'nah, I don't fancy that!' moments!!) Endless transitions on circles do get a bit boring though :o
 
With something truly horrendously rushing, do lots of walk to canter to get a better, more engaged strike off in to it. Then canter leg yield and shoulder in and don't worry if it doesn't feel perfect. I would not personally be pushing MORE forward as you then have to battle to collect and that only turns it in to a pulling match. .....wait until you can collect the canter and then give away the rein and hold him on your seat before you start going more onward bound!
Then canter/walk/canter, walk pirouette in to canter, counter canter changing the flexions.
 
The rushing is all about lack of balance and muscle tone, so persevere with the transitions\lateral work, start with what you both find comfortable and then gradually up the anti. I found that doing lots of different things quickly in succession worked best i.e. not just 2 transitions on a long side, more like 10, and a small circle, and a couple of strides of shoulder in or something. At first I found it would take 20mins or so of work and then he would suddenly pop into self carriage in the canter, and we would have a lovely 2-5 mins, today its generally lovely once we've limbered up. Although if the horse is really lacking in balance then you are better off working on the transitions,

I found when I first started doing the canter shoulder in I would just ask for a couple of strides and then circle away. As someone else said, just asking for the tiniest amount of shoulder fore, and then back to straight can also help without unbalancing so much. Don't worry if you wander from your line to start off with, as long as you have some bend, and can feel some sideways, it will come with practice.
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
With something truly horrendously rushing, do lots of walk to canter to get a better, more engaged strike off in to it. Then canter leg yield and shoulder in and don't worry if it doesn't feel perfect. I would not personally be pushing MORE forward as you then have to battle to collect and that only turns it in to a pulling match. .....wait until you can collect the canter and then give away the rein and hold him on your seat before you start going more onward bound!
Then canter/walk/canter, walk pirouette in to canter, counter canter changing the flexions.
Click to expand...

Shazzababs said:
The rushing is all about lack of balance and muscle tone, so persevere with the transitions\lateral work, start with what you both find comfortable and then gradually up the anti. I found that doing lots of different things quickly in succession worked best i.e. not just 2 transitions on a long side, more like 10, and a small circle, and a couple of strides of shoulder in or something. At first I found it would take 20mins or so of work and then he would suddenly pop into self carriage in the canter, and we would have a lovely 2-5 mins, today its generally lovely once we've limbered up. Although if the horse is really lacking in balance then you are better off working on the transitions,

I found when I first started doing the canter shoulder in I would just ask for a couple of strides and then circle away. As someone else said, just asking for the tiniest amount of shoulder fore, and then back to straight can also help without unbalancing so much. Don't worry if you wander from your line to start off with, as long as you have some bend, and can feel some sideways, it will come with practice.
Click to expand...

Thanks both. I don't think it's that she isn't carrying herself, ie if I give away the reins in canter she stays the same. But it just feels too onward bound to do those things. Maybe i should just and and who knows I might be surprised lol
Aha as I was typing this I was trying to think how to explain it and I think one of the problems is losing balance coming to trot as it rarely feels like I could get a very quick canter again (although getting much better)
 
Some fab exercises on here! Another thing that really helped me is to make sure you are half halting properly and the horse understands what it means. Also use single rein give and retakes to make sure your horse isn't leaning on either rein, then on a 15m circle in canter half halt, leg on, sit up and you should hopefully feel your horse collect himself a little bit, just a stride or two then pat and push him on. As you practise the other exercises (counter canter, transitions, lateral work, walk/canter/walk) you can ask for more collection in the normal canter. Another thing that helped with mine was lunging in canter on smaller and larger circles in loose side reins and a caverson so they start to collect naturally on the smaller circle and have not got anything to lean on so they have to use their back end!
 
Do loads of canter at home. We have been doing a good 15 mins of canter a day, and his canter has TRANSFORMED in about a month. He went from being flat (round but strung out) and rushy, to being really really balanced. He could still do with a bit more impulsion, but there are moments when there's actually a jump in the canter now, and he feels super relaxed and really light in the hand!
 
One of the earlier replies mentioned riding a square - what I found a really great exercise was to ride a 20 m square, but ride the corners at trot or walk. So you need to be collecting and asking for a downwards trans every 15 m or so and then up again after you re-balance through the corner. The horses starts to anticipate the downward trans, and they learn to collect themself. Even better if you can do it thru walk, because walk/canter is another really great exercise for getting them truly round.

Also second what the others have said re lateral work, this really improved my horses canter. So not just shoulder in, but traver, leg yeild (at canter) and half pass too, which wasn't the great "mystery" plenty would have you believe. Have fun!
 
make sure you are sitting *in collection* too and not tipping forward on YOUR forehand.

think of psuhing the hind leg under your hips and sitting back on your seat bones,keeping your chest uphill, your hands up in front of you and half halting the middle of the neck up and back towards you.

dont think of roundness, think of uphillness and sitting'ness!
 
NZJenny said:
One of the earlier replies mentioned riding a square - what I found a really great exercise was to ride a 20 m square, but ride the corners at trot or walk. So you need to be collecting and asking for a downwards trans every 15 m or so and then up again after you re-balance through the corner. The horses starts to anticipate the downward trans, and they learn to collect themself. Even better if you can do it thru walk, because walk/canter is another really great exercise for getting them truly round.
Click to expand...

Ooh I am definitely going to try this one tomorrow! We have a fast work day today so going to undo all the collection work we did yesterday :D
 
Sometimes at first you get disruptions in the outline ( often they will raise their heads ) as they experiment with sitting and lifting the whither a bit more .
So focus hard yourself on everywhere except the head and reward better moments even if it's getting a bit messy in head department .
The outline will easily fix as they develop balance and strength .
 
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