Devoucoux Breastplate - any experiences appreciated

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Beetle

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Could a too tightly fitted one restrict a sensitive horse so much it started to put in stops? I know this sounds as if the answer is an obvious 'yes' but two separate BE trainers including Nick Turner have checked the tack, and said it was correctly fitted and should be a snug fit as per the Devoucoux instructions.

Some of you will know Hattikins chestnut mare, super talented but a bit of a diva. We've owned her since she was four and she's has barely put in a stop jumping ever until last Autumn when she started to put in an occasional stop at totally random SJ fences, not dirty stops but planned several strides out. She had most of last year off with a muscle injury and then a virus but we have every reason to believe she is now fit and well in herself having been recently checked by vets, edts and physios.

The breast girth was used for the first time in the early autumn and it was a couple of weeks before she started putting in these odd stops (they didn't start immediately). Because she was then recovering from the virus she wasn't jumped until late December. Hattikins regular trainer said she was out of practice having had so much time off and she was just being a mare and needed riding a certain way which Hattikins is trying to do. But yesterday we took her to one of the BE Jump Training days, the warm up BE trainer was told about the problem and the first thing he did was remove the breastgirth and said it was far too restrictive and he's seen several others that day which looked equally inhibiting to the horse, he was concerned and was going to talk to Devoucoux. Hattie by this time had stopped twice the warm up and once in the CR. Minus the breast girth she went in and jumped two stonking clear rounds much to our amazement. The other trainer who hadn't seen her previous behaviour in the warm up, commented on what a fabulous scopey horse who would go on any stride from any angle!!! (Made Hattikins smile!)

It's far too early to tell if this really is her problem but we are really really hoping it is as simple as this and won't be using that breastgirth again anyway - anyone want one, hardly used??

We would be really interested to hear any views or experieces you might have on this.

Sorry this has got so long.

Beetle
 
Interesting.... Lucinda Green said exactly the same to me re. my jeffries one.... and this year I havent competed Goddy in one once and he has been alot freer in his shoulders and stopped chipping in...maybe coincidence and because he has gained confidence and matured...but does seem a bit of a coincidence... apparently the Devoucoux fitter has also said they dont suit all horses at all, as they were originally designed for one individual horse.... Either way, my jeffries one is also up for sale
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No it wasn't bought as a fashion assessory! It is the only breastgirth which as really held her saddle in place. She has an Amerigo saddle fitted for her 18 months ago which has been adjusted a couple of times since, she has a very extravagant action both through her shoulder and really uses her back end. As you can imagine she has also changed shape several times over the last year due to illness and being brought in and out of work so this was recommended as the solution.
 
I sold mine....mainly for the money and thought it was a bit vain but also as i was never really sure of the fit!
 
Hi Bettle - We met at Mattingley !
Well I had a number of problems with Devoucoux, in regards to the breastplate when I was having problems with my saddles mr devoucoux himself came out, they told me I needed to wear it with my dressage saddle !!!! You can imagine my trainers face when I turned up with it on !
Well I asked mr devoucoux to fit it - and they did it so blo*dy tight I couldnt believe it - they said whats the point in having it unless its tight and holding the saddle in place - they also expected me to jump with it this tight! Needless to say ive just sold mine on ebay - got nearly £200 for it though !
Uvin has the same problems with saddles slipping back - i brought an anti slip numnah which I find really helps.
Ive got amerigo saddle on order at the mo, did you use equitogs as they are quite close to you I think ?
Hope to see you out this season !
Sx
 
Hi Sarahs - you've a great memory, plse come and say hi if you see us again - I've a terrible memory for faces!

Hattikins has always been concerned about how tight the breastgirth was but bowed to her trainers superior knowledge. Hattie was so free in her jumping yesterday after her straight jacket had been removed there must be something going on here.

Hi KatB - Very interesting Lucinda said that and you've seen a difference in Goddy too.

Hope you both have a great season.
 
Very possibly - it certainly has looked restricting to us but did hold the saddle in place. After her two rounds yesterday with no breastplate at all, the girth was about 4 inches further back than it should a have been
 
Sounds like Hatti is telling you exactly what she thinks to hers then
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everything has theory behind it, but they are the most competent at telling us what works for them.... sticking to the simple methods I think!
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ETA, in regards to the girth, Goddy's always sits about 3" behing the normal "girth groove" as he has a HUGE shoulder, my saddler said not to worrk, as any further forward would restrict his shoulder...his saddler never moves when in the right place, but does if it is on his shoulder... I have a 17" now to allow for the fact it does naturally sit further back, but never moves...
 
Funnily enough, I have the Jeffries version and was wondering if I had it a bit loose??? The top straps seem to not take much strain and then almost "stick up" which gets in the way of my stick and rein loop.

I was told I needed one for a single flap saddle. But if the top strap is taking no strain, then presumably the lower strap has all the tension, and I suppose that makes sense that the horse would be really restricted in pulling it's shoulder forward?

Very interesting indeed. When I were a lass (
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), no-one had breastplates at all, just good old fashioned martingales!
 
we have had this conversation on ere before when i was well squashed because after all Pippa uses one. Hmmm. Well just so you all know when they were originally designed with the assisitance of Mrs Funnell (this was about six years ago) when adjusted properly ( for the sake of being tactful i will call it 'snugly') the rings rubbed the shoulders raw. hence why the 'powder puffs' were designed to stop this.
i usually end up agreeing with mrs green on most things, she actually bothers to study stuff, read the literature and make her own mind up so its interesting that she doesnt care for them. interesting also that in all her seasons eventing on missdemeanor she never found the need for anything other than regular kit but as soon as chris king got the horse a made to measure devoucoux saddle he needed said breastplate as well.
people ought to bear in mind that humans have been riding for centuries, including hunting and jumping over much fiercer terraine than often found now bit breast girths and hunting type breastplates have gerally sufficed.
personally i believe all this recent slipage is due to a great deal more badly fitted saddles which then need multiple pads which obviously are more prone to slipping. as i said to someone one (events to a very high level) who was discussing this very issue, while trying to find the best way to adjust her numnah, riser pad and slip pad under her made to measure (allegedly) close contact xc saddle, "Have you tried getting a saddle that fits?".
 
See my horse also has huge shoulders and a high wither, and ive just leant to deal with the fact that his saddle will move back to where he wants it and finds it most comfortable, and it will look about 3inches further back in the girth area than other horses.
 
Hmmmm this is interesting. I have wondered about the fit on my jefferies one. The part round the front of his chest seems very snug to me but i do like the effect it has on my saddle position. I asked my saddler about this when i had a saddle check recently and he said he wasn't a fan of them due to the tightness of the fit BUt they did seem to do the job in regards keeping saddles in place.

Since then, and i don't know if i'm imagining it, but i've noticed Blue seems much more free on the flat without his breastplate on than when he's wearing it for jumping. When i **eventually** get back into the saddle i am going to jump him in my old hunting breastplate for awhile and see if there is any difference.
 
I have the largest size Kolibri and it is on the loosest settings, and I'm happy with it like that on my slender 16.1hh. I wouldn't use it on a bigger horse because I would think it was too tight.

Certainly don't have any problems with the shoulders not being free enough or chipping in strides, but then mine simply isn't on tight. Devoucoux showed me how to fit it and I immediately loosened it right off again after they'd gone! I find the saddles fit very well, so I don't need a breastplate as much as I used to with previous saddles.
 
interesting thread - so what do you think is better? an elasticated breastplate (hunter style) or an all leather breastplate (again hunter style)?

havent had a 5 point breastplate, so no help really!
 
My (very good, also a bowen therapist) saddle fitter said that many people put their saddles on too far forward. I'm not saying anyone here does but I guess if you did and then put a breastplate on tight it would restrict the shoulders.

I use an elasticated V check one as I feel they are the least restrictive. I don't do it up tight at all (has a good hands width and a bit extra free play) and because my Horse has sensitive skin I cover the elastic with a girth sleeve I adapted. It's a precaution and looking at pics of us jumping the leather bits at the most 'stretched' bit of a jump are just touching all over. The elastic still has all the play left in it. I guess that means I don't need one (and neither I should as his saddle fits) but, for jumping, especially XC, I like the precaution.

I've looked at these 5 point breastplates and often thought that if fitted tight they would be very restrictive. I used to work for a top level SJ and his head groom hated anything other than breastgirths. She felt that breastplates pulled the saddle into the wither area. There was only one Horse on that yard that ever wore a breastgirth and that was because she was such an awkward shape (think wide in the chest then narrowing as you went back). Interestingly, I can't remember ever seeing the 5 point ones used in big SJ classes ever (ie grand prix height). A lot of top level SJ's don't use them at all. They prefer to simply pull the saddle forward just before jumping and in between classes.

Do you use an elasticated girth? Might be an idea if you do to try one that isn't elasticated as they can make the problem (slipping) worse. I don't doubt that some Horses may well find breastplates restricting and it could easily be the cause. I personally wouldn't fit even an elasticated one snugly. The elastic is pretty strong and doesn't give that easily. I'd have a hands width anway at least. They need a fair amount of movement for jumping and the pressure should only apply to avoid excessive slipping. It needs to be able to move a bit with the Horse after all.

I've seen pics of Horses jumping and the straps of the breastplate are almost wedged into the skin to the point it's definately restricting. Might be an idea if you can get some pics while you jump and see how it looks. Might give you a better idea of if that is the problem.

I expect I'll get shot down now (runs and hides).
 
All very interesting. I bought a Kolibri for my 17hh WB x event horse. He has a huge shoulder & front end & not so much behind the saddle. Every saddle slips back slightly further than I find ideal so I thought it would be good.

After much trying & phone calls with Devoucoux I gave up trying to fit it to him. It didnt matter what you did it was just too small.

A breastplate is there as a safety measure in case something goes wrong. It should not come into play in normal circumstances.
 
We use a hunting breastplate for XC only. I was planning on investing in the jefferies one for this season but reading this I am now having 2nd thoughts - My boy is very sensitive to being restricted so I may experiment and borrow a friends and see what happens - I will let you know the outcome!
 
Just a thought - but some horses do have such prominent shoulders that they cannot tolerate a very forward cut saddle without pushing it too far back as they move. My TB can't take anything more forward cut than a working hunter, without needing to have it pulled forward so the flaps are interfering with her shoulders just so it isn't miles behind her withers.
 
The flaps shouldnt make a difference, as they are flexible and wont restrict unless the width fitting of the whole saddle is too narrow. What does make a difference is the panels, so a saddle that is very forward cut can have panels which go over the shoulder if not fitted correctly, and its the panels (and so the pressure from the point) which cause the problem of restriction through the shoulder. ALot of people DO fit the horses saddle too far forward and therefore sitting on the shoulder, and a breastplate designed to keep everything firmly in place adjusted tightly when the saddle is in the "incorrect" forward position Will cause restriction. However, as I said earlier, my horse did free up when not jumping in the breastplate, but that also coincided with buying a close contact saddle with very little points to speak of, and that was very light weight so maybe reducing the restriction anyway... who knows?!
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I think each case is probably different....
 
I just use a simple elastic breastgirth and do believe that the saddle and girth will sit where is most natural for them to do so. all saddles and backs are checked regularly..is a little scary how tight you see breastplates!
 
If it was fitted tightly then I imagine it would restirct a considerable amount.
I use a breastgirth, loosely fitted. Without it my (well fitting) saddle slips back over fences a huge amount- I jumped her wothout it once and never again because I ended up miles back with her bucking!!
She's very free in the air and I feel it doesnt restrict her at all.
 
Really useful replies - thank you all, I'm guessing there really is something in this and beginning to wonder how many poor horses there are out there who would be performing better if their ignorant riders weren't strapping them up so tight they can't do their job. KatB - you're so right we should be listening to our horses particularly when they're screaming at us!

Interestingly, we're just back from doing a BN (very very easy for her but she had been stopping as less than this height) minus all tack just a loose ring NS snaffle and a saddle and, apart from Hattikins having no steering at one point, Hattie jumped the most lovely forward going flowing DC. Sadly the saddle slipped back by miles leaving the girth about 8ins further back than it should have been. Anyway delighted with her and quietly optimistic. We will try an elastic breastgirth for XC practice on Monday and hope it does enough.

Will keep you posted over the next few outings. Also seeing Nick Turner again on Monday so will be interested to talk to him again.
 
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