diabolical to mount WWYD

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scarymare

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Musing really

My Newbie (free to a good home) is horrendous to mount in that she cow kicks (at me) and violently kicks out behind. Accompanied by the odd bite and rear.

Before we all start - yes, saddle, teeth, etc all checked yes vet out, yes physio and yes and yes and yes.

So my question is: Do I 'foot in and commit' as my instructor wishes or do I continue to faff about as I am doing until she eventually gives up (which she always does). In two minds really. Might help you to realise that when the owner decided she couldn't cope with this any more, I broke her journey and had her professionally schooled for a couple of months during which the problem totally went away (after we had - again - been through the back/saddle/vet/physio!). The jockey could (and did) mount from the ground even, although when I went to ride her she always kicked out at me.

Never seen anything like it in my life so genuinely interested in what people think.
 
Professional sorted it by perseverence from what I can gather (but much, much better than me, in the P2P and BE intermediate type of calibre).

She didn't do it on Saturday, at all and I knew she'd be fine as soon as I walked her to the block (have purchased one of those mega big ones as I am a member of self preservation society). On Sunday she was a witch again but she was wound up by the loudspeakers of the SJ show which was a mile away but super clear day.

She defo is worse when I'm on my own but I wonder if that's because she's picking up on my fear, it is b**** frightening. Obviously a behavioural thing but such a shame.

I've emailed my vet re a gastric scope for ulcers - what do you think?
 
I will be watching this thread with interest as my boy is a bit of an idiot to get on. Not nasty in the slightest, just goes round and round and round in a circle!

I bought him for very cheap as he had this problem. Had the vet out and she said no pain issues, back man, new saddle fitted, teeth done the works. Then I got a horsemanship stylee person out who showed me some tips, which worked to a certain extent. He basically stands lovely until you put your foot in the stirrup and then he just moves round you in a circle. You can either wait until he stands still pat him and then hop on (sometimes takes a while) or just hop on while hes moving but i don't like the idea of this!

As I can currently only ride at the weekends he has got a little worse. Once on he is perfect which is even more annoying! So any tips for me would be great too :)
 
I had problem mounting a horse I had, he wouldn't stand still and walked in circles. I did get on and ride him. He was later diagnosed with ringbone in his fronts. I didn't put 2 & 2 together at the time, but maybe it was painful for him with the extra weight on his joints :(
 
Could you ask the pro to come out to you and watch then mount? If they get on ok, then I think the problem could be your nerves.
 
Will she let you get back on once you have ridden her? if she is happier after work I would get on and off several times then, making a big fuss if she stands quietly.

Scoping or treating her as is she has ulcers may be a good idea, I have one that was girthy, impatient but not really a problem like yours, he scoped clear but I have changed his diet and given him Gastriaid for 2 months, he is now fine to girth up, is much less tense and his back no longer comes up when first mounted, I assume that although he did not have ulcers he was very sensitive to any acid build up.
 
SF...have you tried tightening your RT rein...he can't circle around you if he isnt flexed around you....

Mine was diabolical to mount when I got him....to the point of rearing/spinning.....being a stubborn git I didn't give in and sometimes it took almost an hour to climb on board.

He will now stand happily whilst I mount from thr ground and wait whilst I faff around with girth etc.

There were no quick fixes...I took him back to basics re standing at the mounting block/gate- leaning over- walking off....backing him up and around whenever he moved off before I asked him to or before I got on board.

It took months if I'm honest....but it was time well spent because I know if I need to get off for any reason on a hack I can easily get back on board.
 
amymay said:
Stupid question - how long is her tail?
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Very long - gets in the way of her boots, must cut at the weekend.

I should probably also mention that when I first got her, and tied her up in stable to tack up (pretty evil too) she kicked two massive holes in my back walls about 6 feet up. She does nothing nasty if tacked up outside. Irish mare, suspect has been through the ringer a few times?
 
SpottyFalula said:
I will be watching this thread with interest as my boy is a bit of an idiot to get on. Not nasty in the slightest, just goes round and round and round in a circle!

I bought him for very cheap as he had this problem. Had the vet out and she said no pain issues, back man, new saddle fitted, teeth done the works. Then I got a horsemanship stylee person out who showed me some tips, which worked to a certain extent. He basically stands lovely until you put your foot in the stirrup and then he just moves round you in a circle. You can either wait until he stands still pat him and then hop on (sometimes takes a while) or just hop on while hes moving but i don't like the idea of this!

As I can currently only ride at the weekends he has got a little worse. Once on he is perfect which is even more annoying! So any tips for me would be great too :)
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My other mare did this. In the end I had strategic 'barrels' around my yard and I just put food on them and mounted no problem (she used to pretend was cold backed). I was mortified at shows though. I'm making this sound like my issue but again I knew this mare had this problem when I brought her.
 
scarymare said:
Very long - gets in the way of her boots, must cut at the weekend.

I should probably also mention that when I first got her, and tied her up in stable to tack up (pretty evil too) she kicked two massive holes in my back walls about 6 feet up. She does nothing nasty if tacked up outside. Irish mare, suspect has been through the ringer a few times?
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Chop it off - right on the hocks. May make no difference at all - but I've known long tails to be a real issue for some horses.
 
in my humble opinion, if it was health related, she would have done it consistently with the pro as well.

It sounds behavioural if she does it with you. She could be picking up on the anxiety, and also the faffing doesn't fill them with confidence.
Mine did this, to the extent that he put me in hospital for a week - he bolted broncing as I was swinging my leg over him, and the bugger also kicked me as I was flying through the air. Not fun at all.
It did take quite a while to sort out...here's what was recommended to me, I followed it perfectly, and it sorted the problem....you'll need a helper....and some time & patience...

1) get some carrot slices, and put in your pocket
2) lead your horse by hand (fully tacked up) up to mounting block, give her lots of praise for standing in one place and not moving. If she moves, keep putting her back alongside the mounting block, and reward with a slice of carrot, and verbal praise, and a stroke on the neck. Give the impression that being next to the mounting block is the best place to be. You could even spend 15-30 minutes just doing this. Take her away, bring her back, insist that she stands still, give her a snack.

3) Once this is working well, get your helper to hold her up front, and you stand on the mounting block beside her, helper gives her treats and praises her, and gives her confidence to stay still. Once she's still, then lean over her from the mounting block...helper is giving her carrot slices to keep her happy and free from anxiety, and also distracting her from the fact you're leaning over her.

4) Once this is working well, put one foot in the stirrup and put some weight in it...she must stand still, helper gives her a slice of carrot and more praise for being a good girl. Keep going with this step until she stands still and is happy, free from tension.

5) Make sure helper has a good hold of both reins up front (you need to trust the helper), now swing other leg up and over and sit down quietly and softly....give her a stroke, your helper gives a slice of carrot & some praise. Sit there for a while, keeping it all quiet and relaxed. There! Now you're on. Do not allow her to walk off until you ask for it.

6) Do this for a while, you'll see improvements straight away. You will get to a point where she'll walk over and stand at the mounting block quietly (give a treat before attempting to mount), and she'll let you get on without her moving a muscle.

- it's just psychology - positive reinforcement, you're rewarding every little step in the right direction with a carrot slice. Before long, she will associate mounting with getting a treat. It probably took 2 weeks to sort the problem with my horse. If he ever starts to regress, I go back to the basics, and re-establish the link between mounting / praise / treat.

Have fun :)
 
With most of the horses we've had in for re-schooling or to iron out bad habits, mounting problems are usually solved by getting the owner to mount from a block WITHOUT putting their foot in the stirrup. Most horses will stand much more quietly and happily if you just put your leg over and sit down rather than putting your foot in the stirrup.

We recently sorted a horse who had problems similar to your mare. PM me if you'd like any advice, I'm more than happy to try and help.
 
Having worked with numerous horses with mounting problems, I'd suggest you invest in doing some groundwork with your horse to get it really responsive to the handler with a good understanding of the aids to back up out of your space.

Once this is established move on to mounting, everytime your horse takes one step away from you / puts ears back / goes to cow kick quietly but firmly make the horse back up out of your space until you can feel that it is tired of moving backwards. Then return to the mounting block and start again. Keep repeating and the horse will soon get the idea that you are in charge of it's feet and there isn't much point in moving around when mounting. It's really important to keep the energy levels low so this isn't seen as 'punishment' simply a direct consequence of an action. Once the horse stands quietly to let you mount get straight off, praise and repeat. If you use this technique properly I'd be extremely surprised if you don't pretty much sort the problem in one session.

PM me if you'd like me to explaing more clearly or would like hands on help - if I'm not nearby I may know someone who is.
 
Starzaan said:
With most of the horses we've had in for re-schooling or to iron out bad habits, mounting problems are usually solved by getting the owner to mount from a block WITHOUT putting their foot in the stirrup. Most horses will stand much more quietly and happily if you just put your leg over and sit down rather than putting your foot in the stirrup.

We recently sorted a horse who had problems similar to your mare. PM me if you'd like any advice, I'm more than happy to try and help.
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That's really, really interesting. Certainly the foot in the stirrup is the cause of the kicking. Blimey though, I'd have to practice on my other one to get the hang of that, least they are both the same height. I did notice a monster mounting block for sale so may have to look at this. BTW she does absolutely nothing once I am on (and actually does nothing once she has given up with all my faffing).
 
Andiamo said:
in my humble opinion, if it was health related, she would have done it consistently with the pro as well.

It sounds behavioural if she does it with you. She could be picking up on the anxiety, and also the faffing doesn't fill them with confidence.
Mine did this, to the extent that he put me in hospital for a week - he bolted broncing as I was swinging my leg over him, and the bugger also kicked me as I was flying through the air. Not fun at all.
It did take quite a while to sort out...here's what was recommended to me, I followed it perfectly, and it sorted the problem....you'll need a helper....and some time & patience...

1) get some carrot slices, and put in your pocket
2) lead your horse by hand (fully tacked up) up to mounting block, give her lots of praise for standing in one place and not moving. If she moves, keep putting her back alongside the mounting block, and reward with a slice of carrot, and verbal praise, and a stroke on the neck. Give the impression that being next to the mounting block is the best place to be. You could even spend 15-30 minutes just doing this. Take her away, bring her back, insist that she stands still, give her a snack.

3) Once this is working well, get your helper to hold her up front, and you stand on the mounting block beside her, helper gives her treats and praises her, and gives her confidence to stay still. Once she's still, then lean over her from the mounting block...helper is giving her carrot slices to keep her happy and free from anxiety, and also distracting her from the fact you're leaning over her.

4) Once this is working well, put one foot in the stirrup and put some weight in it...she must stand still, helper gives her a slice of carrot and more praise for being a good girl. Keep going with this step until she stands still and is happy, free from tension.

5) Make sure helper has a good hold of both reins up front (you need to trust the helper), now swing other leg up and over and sit down quietly and softly....give her a stroke, your helper gives a slice of carrot & some praise. Sit there for a while, keeping it all quiet and relaxed. There! Now you're on. Do not allow her to walk off until you ask for it.

6) Do this for a while, you'll see improvements straight away. You will get to a point where she'll walk over and stand at the mounting block quietly (give a treat before attempting to mount), and she'll let you get on without her moving a muscle.

- it's just psychology - positive reinforcement, you're rewarding every little step in the right direction with a carrot slice. Before long, she will associate mounting with getting a treat. It probably took 2 weeks to sort the problem with my horse. If he ever starts to regress, I go back to the basics, and re-establish the link between mounting / praise / treat.

Have fun :)
Click to expand...

It is certainly an intellectual challenge which I am finding stimulating although she does absolutely nothing nasty once she has decided to give up. (No broncing etc). Now quite keen to try this out. I don't have a helper but think I could adapt all these suggestions. She actually freaks out if somebody holds her anyway.
 
showjumper06 said:
Having worked with numerous horses with mounting problems, I'd suggest you invest in doing some groundwork with your horse to get it really responsive to the handler with a good understanding of the aids to back up out of your space.

Once this is established move on to mounting, everytime your horse takes one step away from you / puts ears back / goes to cow kick quietly but firmly make the horse back up out of your space until you can feel that it is tired of moving backwards. Then return to the mounting block and start again. Keep repeating and the horse will soon get the idea that you are in charge of it's feet and there isn't much point in moving around when mounting. It's really important to keep the energy levels low so this isn't seen as 'punishment' simply a direct consequence of an action. Once the horse stands quietly to let you mount get straight off, praise and repeat. If you use this technique properly I'd be extremely surprised if you don't pretty much sort the problem in one session.

PM me if you'd like me to explaing more clearly or would like hands on help - if I'm not nearby I may know someone who is.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Once she has cow kicked at me she does run backwards anyway though. Fear I suspect with a big helping of pigginess. I've never tried getting off though once I'm on, but have often wondered about doing this although by now sometimes an hour has passed so bit scared to!
 
Could be on the inside too if this is a mare. Ovaries. Something you wouldn't know without a repro exam. Especially this time of year if the mares start to cycle down for the winter.

Does giving her a bit of walking before you get on tightening the girth as you go help? I never tighten my girth and just get on.

And then of course she may just be trying it on so to speak. The "pro" I had riding my jumping mare could barely get on her in the end. She was trying to run off and then of course she was getting Mr. Nasty having a go at her. The day before her last show I told him to get off and that I'd ride her instead. After that, I was on my own. It took a little bit but I now have the same ole easy mare to get on. I get on like a granny from a bucket with everything loose. I do let all my horses take a step. I realise this isn't right but it's what works for me. However, with client horses they must stand.

It's not a nice feeling getting on something that you describe. Have you ever tried having someone just lead her off while you go in clean? Some are just a little peculiar when they don't have issues or they remember past issues.

Terri
 
HI, I have a horse that was bad to mount I have worked with him for 2 years I never resolved it but learnt to live with it. I upped his work this year and he went mental an tried to kill me. I took him to the vets and he has kissing spine and is having the opp on Monday :( Be careful with a free horse is a pro could not get it to work properly there is normally a reason.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Could be on the inside too if this is a mare. Ovaries. Something you wouldn't know without a repro exam. Especially this time of year if the mares start to cycle down for the winter.

Does giving her a bit of walking before you get on tightening the girth as you go help? I never tighten my girth and just get on.

And then of course she may just be trying it on so to speak. The "pro" I had riding my jumping mare could barely get on her in the end. She was trying to run off and then of course she was getting Mr. Nasty having a go at her. The day before her last show I told him to get off and that I'd ride her instead. After that, I was on my own. It took a little bit but I now have the same ole easy mare to get on. I get on like a granny from a bucket with everything loose. I do let all my horses take a step. I realise this isn't right but it's what works for me. However, with client horses they must stand.

It's not a nice feeling getting on something that you describe. Have you ever tried having someone just lead her off while you go in clean? Some are just a little peculiar when they don't have issues or they remember past issues.

Terri
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Thanks Terri, I suspect she is trying it on unfortunately. I would imagine (she's 7) that she's been a 'dealer's dream' and has kept getting sold in Ireland before coming straight back and people making money again and again. Honestly on Saturday when I just got on her no bother I felt like I had won the lottery and smiled for 8 hours solid. But that's horses for you. Interesting as keeping things loose (I never over girth) and reins loose works well also but I feel ********* vulnerable as am pretty much at her mercy.
 
scarymare said:
It is certainly an intellectual challenge which I am finding stimulating although she does absolutely nothing nasty once she has decided to give up. (No broncing etc). Now quite keen to try this out. I don't have a helper but think I could adapt all these suggestions. She actually freaks out if somebody holds her anyway.
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Andiamo's suggestions work equally well without a helper - you just need to pay a lot of attention to how she's responding, and break the steps down a bit more. Don't move on to the next stage until you are 100% happy that she is standing relaxed - i.e. not tensing up, swishing tail, sucking up her tummy, with her head up and back inverted - before you move on to the next stage.

I would also suggest taking a bit longer at the "mounted" stage - once you get on successfully for the first time, immediately dismount and repeat.

I would also include a step where you lean over and feed the carrot from the offside, as this is what you'll want to do once on board - so the mare knows to bend around to take the carrot slice (polo, pony nut) from you.

I have had two clients use this process with difficult horses and it has been very successful. Quite a few horses (and it does seem a characteristic of some Irish imports) just don't understand what's required of them, and when they don't behave as expected, what the rider does to try to get them to behave actually makes the situation worse, getting into a spiral of difficulty and resistance. Break that by going back to basics, and you should find you have a horse who cooperates willingly.
 
How about mounting Carl Hester Stylie? :D

CarlHesterMounting_zps8cd47437.jpg


Sorry couldn't help myself! Been some great advice already OP. Hope you manage to sort it out.
 
3BayGeldings said:
What did the physio find?
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Nothing at all. She was sold in Kent but put back to dealers and lady tried physio. Physio said nothing wrong. Subsequently sold to my friend who five stage vetted with ace vet, nothing wrong. My pro in the borders got somebody whose name escapes me but apparently best there is who said....nothing wrong. IMO, she is tight behind the saddle though
 
Bigbenji said:
How about mounting Carl Hester Stylie? :D

CarlHesterMounting_zps8cd47437.jpg


Sorry couldn't help myself! Been some great advice already OP. Hope you manage to sort it out.
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OMG, he defo has the same problem and has taken self preservation to the extreme here (although think I am going to buy the 4 stepper from JSW)
 
annunziata said:
HI, I have a horse that was bad to mount I have worked with him for 2 years I never resolved it but learnt to live with it. I upped his work this year and he went mental an tried to kill me. I took him to the vets and he has kissing spine and is having the opp on Monday :( Be careful with a free horse is a pro could not get it to work properly there is normally a reason.
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Good luck with the OP. Mine does nothing wrong once mounted. The pro took her XC, SJ and even hunted. Must FB and find out how she managed to mount with the additional stress. She's a super hack, will school quite nicely although (points to behavioural/psychological) would not go at all for my instructor, just napped so I got back on but was fine (instructor much more able than me). Total paradox.
 
Love that pic. My bucket broke once while getting on Abba. I fell straight underneath her hanging onto stirrup. She was kind of like, all the owners in the world and this is what I'm stuck with!

I guess you'll just have to keep preservering which is much more difficult with her. She doesn't seem fun and I probably would be hesitant to be loosey goosey myself. I think you're doing a great job sorting out a very difficult issue.

Terri
 
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