Diagnosing Navicular...

Sometimes. Sometimes not, Sometimes you need an ultra sound or an MRI to see the soft tissue,
Navicular syndrome is difficult, as there are a hell of a lot of diffrent reasons for it.

Lou x
 
Thanks... can't afford an MRI at the moment unfortunately
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The xray was back in January and showed absolutely nothing other than the angle of her hoof was too shallow due to her heels being low at the back. Navicular was never mentioned (it is just something I have found when looking through articles about long toes and low heels) and the vet, who is a lameness specialist, said that once the heel has come up she would be fine.

The problem is, the heel is still lower than it should be on one foot inparticular but she is sound on most surfaces, just on very hard surfaces on a tight corner for example she can look a little footy.

From the xrays we could see she had quite thin soles, so it was advised I use gels to cushion her. She had these in initially, but the farrier who was doing her seriously let me down so I have started with a new one last time and he did not have any gel in. He will be putting some in for me this time on Monday.

I was strongly advised against eggbars by the vet, but reading things on navicular it suggests they are the best thing???
 
For navicular bar shoes are very effective. From what I am reading, this horse needs the heel angle to come up, which is what you and working on and the silicone pads (Im assuming equipak? or equipak cs) will definatly help.

I wouldnt jump the gun just yet, althought low heels and long toes do predespose to navicular syndrome (as it puts strain on the tendons and presson on to the distal sesamoid bone.) The lameness could jsut be form thin soles/the still low heel.

You seem to have made greast progess with this already, but if you want to take the lameness investigations further I would ask for another xray to see weather there are any arthritic changes noow precent around the distal sesamoid.

Good luck. and it sounds like you are working to get to the route of it.

Lou x c
 
A friends horse had a lameness workup including nerveblocks, xrays and scans before being referred for an MRI of the foot which detected navicular bursa problems although the navicular bone itself was not a problem. Be wary about the MRI scan cost as some insurance companies will either not cover you for the cost or will ask you to pay half towards it. Check your policy first.
 
Jetset - Heartbar's have really, really helped Thumper - together with the Gel.

Go back to your vet and ask them to look at the coffin joint. Thump's is still a little short on a corner - and i've been told that is down to the coffin joint being slightly compressed due to the angles of the pedal bones, on the turn.

Could be similar??????

Heartbars, though all the way ..........
 
As AmyMay says navicular can be diagnosed through x-rays, although x-rays can often be misleading. Most horses show some minor changes but without an MRI it is difficult to determine what is and is not true navicular.
I'd carry on treating as you are and use the silicone gel pads. Jesper has soft tissue damage in his coffin joint which was treated as coffin joint arthritis prior to an MRI. He improved dramatically with correct shoeing and gel pads.
Could you try a steriod injection in to the coffin joint? Just a thought as it would help reduce any associated swelling and inflammation within the joint that might not be seen on x-ray?
 
Thank you everyone...

The xrays were really good of her feet, other than the balance of the foot there was absolutely nothing to see. Can you nerve block the coffin joint? If so, this is the one he nerve blocked without any improvement at all (he wanted to ensure it was 100% the foot causing the unlevel steps).

There were no changes at all seen in her front feet which is good news I suppose... We also had xrays from three months previous to compare to.

AmyMay, could be very similar. I will have a chat with my farrier on Monday and see where we go from here. The difficult thing is that when she has had her shoes done, there are no short steps at all and no unlevel ones. This is the first time since January that I have noticed it, she has looked brilliant up until this. Her feet have grown 50% more this time than last time though, her toe has suddenly run away from her completely and the shoe has actually moved with it.

I have arranged to have the Equi Pak put back in this time... I am just wondering whether I should book her in for xrays before having her feet redone, or see how the equi pak helps?
 
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Her feet have grown 50% more this time than last time though, her toe has suddenly run away from her completely and the shoe has actually moved with it.

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There's your answer, I would say. How long are you going in between shoeing?

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I have arranged to have the Equi Pak put back in this time... I am just wondering whether I should book her in for xrays before having her feet redone, or see how the equi pak helps?

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Save your pennies. Speak to farrier - (has he seen the x-rays?) and then make a decision.
 
Farrier has not seen the xrays, but has spoken to the vet about them... I may see whether we can get them sent over actually for Monday???

She is going 5 weeks in between shoeing at the moment.
 
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A friends horse had a lameness workup including nerveblocks, xrays and scans before being referred for an MRI of the foot which detected navicular bursa problems although the navicular bone itself was not a problem. Be wary about the MRI scan cost as some insurance companies will either not cover you for the cost or will ask you to pay half towards it. Check your policy first.

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Yep, exact same story as my friends horse. He had filler and eggbar shoes plus he had the joint medicated a couple of times. He's sound as a pound now.
 
Grace was going 4 weeks, but then there was some issues with a previous farrier who let me down, so had to wait for new one a bit longer and then it just fell 5 weeks later he was back in the area.

Just realised, it is actually 6 weeks
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With big ginger lad the x-rays showed nothing, but nerve blocking to the navicular bursa showed he not only had problems with the leg he looked lame on but the other one too!
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X-rays often don't show up some aspects of navicular. It can be a complex old condition involving all or some of the navicular bone, navicular bursa, DDFT and coffin joint. It sounds like you are going down the right road. My farrier doesn't like egg bars and the vet at O'Gorman's where Ginger Loon had his MRI recommended graduated heel shoes with frog support (to raise his flat heels and take pressure off his DDFT) , moving onto straight bars at the next shoeing. We're also considering the equipac (he had this last year when he had bruised soles and it worked a treat). Good luck with yr treatment and hope he comes sound.
 
hi jetset
as navicular syndrome covers a awful lot of soft tissue injuries as well as bone issues in the hoof and an x-ray will not necessarily show anything if its soft tissue, you need an m.r.i. to hopefully get an accurate diagnosis
 
Just out of interest, how quickly would you expect to see a difference in a horse with navicular symptoms come sound with correct shoeing and heartbar type shoes etc? thanks
 
My mare underwent an MRI which showed she had a mild inflammation in her Impar ligament. Thankfully, everything else was absolutely fine so I am glad I ventured into the world of MRI
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I have an xray of P's foot somewhere. I had taken her to the vets for them to assess her as she used to trip such a lot when hacking or not on a school surface. I was shocked to see that she was quite noticeably lame when lunged on hard ground by the vets. I genuinely hadn't realised she had lameness issues as she trotted sound in straight lines (and back then all I really did was hack).

Lots of mutterings about Navicular were going on between the vet and the students at his point.

However, they xrayed her hooves and found the angles inside were all wrong. The hoof on the xray looked "long" at the toe, yet the horse stood in front of you (Patches) didn't appear to have long toes. You'd never have matched her xrays with her feet at all. It was quite an eye opener, even for the vet.

The diagnosis was that her feet were just out of balance "for her" and she needed to have the way they were trimmed/shod altered to aleviate the pain that was being caused in her heels by them being so un-balanced.

To cut a long story short, the feet were trimmed in accordance with the vet's instructions. She is now done every 4 weeks as she grows alot of hoof in that time. Her toes are also rolled quite markedly.

She is now 100% sound in front on a tight circle on both reins. She doesn't trip anymore either.

If I told you those xrays were taken in June 2006 and we've had no issues with her feet ever since her shoeing was altered, would it make you feel any better?
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Her feet were re-xrayed 12 months later as part of another work-up (which diagnosed spavin) and the vet was very pleased with her feet.
 
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