star
Well-Known Member
Just wondering if anyone went and what they thought? I only went today, but found it interesting.
Did anyone go to the BD Convention at Addington this weekend?
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Dressage_Queen
Active Member
I went both days!
Thought it was A LOT better today!
Poor Roland Tong on Nadonna, they was very to the point with him!
What did u think about it Star, did you have a good seat?
Thought it was A LOT better today!
Poor Roland Tong on Nadonna, they was very to the point with him!
What did u think about it Star, did you have a good seat?
star
Well-Known Member
a friend of a friend wasn't feeling well today so i got her ticket and very glad i did!
would have been very interesting to see yesterday though as felt i could have done with knowing their theories. my mates filled me in a bit - like wanting to see the lower leg being used in Andrews case and not using the legs in the downwards transitions. i found it very interesting though. did feel sorry for Roland though! We were discussing Simone's seat and thought she perhaps could have benefited from putting her stirrups up a hole as looked a bit perched on her fork - possibly trying to achieve the long legged dressage rider look, but dont think she is built for that - refreshing to see someone other than a longlegged skinny person doing well though! was expecting to see them all being asked to work in hyper-flexion, but relieved to see not. Still sitting on the fence with that one, but believe it's probably better in Anky and Sjef's hands, than most people who try to do it, if it's got to be done. Did think their attitude towards training was very much geared towards the hot-headed horse though. They want them so forwards that they dont have time to think for a millisecond in a transition - I think if most of us tried riding something so hot it would have us on the floor! Gareth's horse was amazingly quick with those spooky spins - i thought my horse did them well, but his are nothing compared!
would have been very interesting to see yesterday though as felt i could have done with knowing their theories. my mates filled me in a bit - like wanting to see the lower leg being used in Andrews case and not using the legs in the downwards transitions. i found it very interesting though. did feel sorry for Roland though! We were discussing Simone's seat and thought she perhaps could have benefited from putting her stirrups up a hole as looked a bit perched on her fork - possibly trying to achieve the long legged dressage rider look, but dont think she is built for that - refreshing to see someone other than a longlegged skinny person doing well though! was expecting to see them all being asked to work in hyper-flexion, but relieved to see not. Still sitting on the fence with that one, but believe it's probably better in Anky and Sjef's hands, than most people who try to do it, if it's got to be done. Did think their attitude towards training was very much geared towards the hot-headed horse though. They want them so forwards that they dont have time to think for a millisecond in a transition - I think if most of us tried riding something so hot it would have us on the floor! Gareth's horse was amazingly quick with those spooky spins - i thought my horse did them well, but his are nothing compared!
Dressage_Queen
Active Member
Agree with you 100% with everything star!
I really felt that Andrew was riding far to much on his curb rein. He had a slightly loose contact on the snaffle then really tight on the curb! It was not as bad today as it was yesterday.
There was nothing that Spenny and Dolendo could have been faulted on! It was a pleasure to watch them!
I really felt that Andrew was riding far to much on his curb rein. He had a slightly loose contact on the snaffle then really tight on the curb! It was not as bad today as it was yesterday.
There was nothing that Spenny and Dolendo could have been faulted on! It was a pleasure to watch them!
Judie
Well-Known Member
Didn't go and now I'm jealous
star
Well-Known Member
i think Andrew's horse has issues that need working on - he doesn't seem to want to stretch forwards in the contact and Andrew seemed to ride him overbent deliberately - it didn't really look like hyper-flexion, just overbent to me? i think he could do with 6 months of re-schooling, but i suspect his owner would have something to say about that - she wants him out and about competing.
Did love Dolendo - he is a fabulous horse, but Painted Black impressed me more, despite his young age. i saw him at Olympia doing a demo a year or two ago, but he has progressed well since then. His piaffe impressed - much energy from behind, good rhythm and equal steps with fore and hindlimbs, as opposed to the toe brushing you see a lot behind. his extended trot was also good - not all flash in front - one for the future he is!
Did love Dolendo - he is a fabulous horse, but Painted Black impressed me more, despite his young age. i saw him at Olympia doing a demo a year or two ago, but he has progressed well since then. His piaffe impressed - much energy from behind, good rhythm and equal steps with fore and hindlimbs, as opposed to the toe brushing you see a lot behind. his extended trot was also good - not all flash in front - one for the future he is!
eventingdiva
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming Andrew was riding Cadre Noir (black stallion)?
He always goes like that, even with very little contact, he is almost overbent.
He had some time off a couple of years ago, so i think the chances of him having 6 months re-schooling are pretty slim!
He's rather gorgeous though
x
He always goes like that, even with very little contact, he is almost overbent.
He had some time off a couple of years ago, so i think the chances of him having 6 months re-schooling are pretty slim!
He's rather gorgeous though
star
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
I'm assuming Andrew was riding Cadre Noir (black stallion)?
He always goes like that, even with very little contact, he is almost overbent.
He had some time off a couple of years ago, so i think the chances of him having 6 months re-schooling are pretty slim!
He's rather gorgeous though
x
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, it was Cadre Noir - he is lovely, but Anky and sjef had some serious issues with his basic training - he does need to go back to basics and work on his straightness, but it wont happen which is a shame coz it could turn him into a top horse, rather than just a very nice one.
I'm assuming Andrew was riding Cadre Noir (black stallion)?
He always goes like that, even with very little contact, he is almost overbent.
He had some time off a couple of years ago, so i think the chances of him having 6 months re-schooling are pretty slim!
He's rather gorgeous though
[/ QUOTE ]
yeah, it was Cadre Noir - he is lovely, but Anky and sjef had some serious issues with his basic training - he does need to go back to basics and work on his straightness, but it wont happen which is a shame coz it could turn him into a top horse, rather than just a very nice one.
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
That was all very interesting. My son Andy went yesterday with a dressage trainer friend. Ok it was a long day leaving at 6am & arriving home at 8pm. But he walked in the door & said he had lost the will to live! Not with any of Anky's comments. Just the fact that every rider/horse had to be taken back to basics. Surely at this level one could expect basics to be correct? What do you all think?
star
Well-Known Member
perhaps Anky is more fussy about basics than other trainers, perhaps we rush our horses to grand prix and forget to get the basics right first, perhaps our basics aren't as good as hers, perhaps this is why we cannot compete with the Dutch (and the Germans etc)! I would quite like to have seen the work on the basics as it might have helped me understand today more, but everyone said today was much better.
FRESHMAN
Well-Known Member
We always get the wrong day!!!! But I think you are quite right with regards to the basics. However if the foundations are not sound the wall will most definately fall down at a later date!
CSYMolly
Well-Known Member
Oh dear why did Roland get slated so badly, he has done so well on Nadonna. Who was Gareth riding?
I would LOVE to have gone - no fari.
I would LOVE to have gone - no fari.
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
Gareth was riding a lovely 5 yr old called Duvie. He is a lovely horse - a bit spooky at the beginning, but there was a huge crowd and it must have been very overwhelming for a young horse. Gareth did extremely well with him - the main change was that Anky and Sjef had him pick up the tempo especially in the trot, and wanted him sharper off the leg.
Roland got into trouble for not sitting straight - but not from Anky and Sjef as much as from members of the audience. There was a bit of misunderstanding the first day about what exactly they wanted Roland to do, and it didn't help that Nadonna was very tight and tense. I thought that Roland got her much more relaxed on the second day and she was moving better. He had some problems keeping her correct in one of the half passes, and apparently this was because he was sitting to the right - can't comment on this as I was sitting at the long side and couldn't see.
Andrew's horse has some real issues with straightness, and he ducks behind the contact frequently. They worked very hard in getting him straight on a circle in canter. This horse really struggled with the pirouettes, and Sjef pointed out that this was because the canter wasn't competely straight and the horse was sitting too much and losing the rhythm in the pirs.
I thought that Simone did brilliantly the second day. She had obviously listened to what they had said on the first day and the horse went beautifully. The first day the horse had been tense and Anky had her stretch him down and out, and then vary the tempo in the trot forward and back to help him stretch into a nicer contact. This horse has stunning changes and they were commended. Like Andrew's horse, they struggled with the pirouettes. With both horses they had them come in to a working pirouette in travers, and then push the horse out straight on the circle in medium canter as soon as the quality of the canter deteriorated.
Spencer and Dolendo were lovely as ever. They did the zig zag half passes - they worked on an exercise to stop the horse anticipating the change and drifting in the change of hand. The worked a bit on the piaffe and passage, but not on the transitions between them. The piaffe was asked for from walk, and they did lots of passage-trot transitions.
Anky rode Krack C on the first day, in which she showed some hyperflexion training. I still don't really understand the benefits of this, but when she did it it looked totally different from overbending which we saw in some of the other horses (especially Andrew's and Simone's on the first day). She seems to use it to stop Krack from getting strong and running onto her hands. But I just don't t really understand it (probably way beyond the likes of me).
She rode Painted Black on the second day and that was very impressive. She didn't use the hyperflexion (perhaps because Painted was nice and relaxed and didn't seem strong or spooky like Krack?). She worked him in long and low, then worked on transitions from walk to trot and within the trot to check that he was totally in front of the leg. They did some tempi changes and Sjef explained that the horse still wasn't totally consistant in his changes. Then they did some walk and "almost halts" to introduce the piaffe, and Painted showed one of the most stunning piaffes I've seen in ages. I think Anky was finding it hard (she's nearly 6 months pregnant), but you could see how talented and happy that horse it.
The most impressive part of the two days for me was their open-ness and interaction with the audience. It didn't degenerate into a discussion of hyperflexion (thank god), althought this was discussed quite frankly. The main message that I took home with me is that there are many tools that can be used in the training of a horse, and the skill of training involves knowing which tool to choose for the problems that a given horse is presenting at a specific moment in time. Their main theory is that you should make things as clear and logical for the horse as possible and not confuse him with too many simultaneous aids or instructions.
There was a lot to take it, but it was an extremely interesting two days.
Roland got into trouble for not sitting straight - but not from Anky and Sjef as much as from members of the audience. There was a bit of misunderstanding the first day about what exactly they wanted Roland to do, and it didn't help that Nadonna was very tight and tense. I thought that Roland got her much more relaxed on the second day and she was moving better. He had some problems keeping her correct in one of the half passes, and apparently this was because he was sitting to the right - can't comment on this as I was sitting at the long side and couldn't see.
Andrew's horse has some real issues with straightness, and he ducks behind the contact frequently. They worked very hard in getting him straight on a circle in canter. This horse really struggled with the pirouettes, and Sjef pointed out that this was because the canter wasn't competely straight and the horse was sitting too much and losing the rhythm in the pirs.
I thought that Simone did brilliantly the second day. She had obviously listened to what they had said on the first day and the horse went beautifully. The first day the horse had been tense and Anky had her stretch him down and out, and then vary the tempo in the trot forward and back to help him stretch into a nicer contact. This horse has stunning changes and they were commended. Like Andrew's horse, they struggled with the pirouettes. With both horses they had them come in to a working pirouette in travers, and then push the horse out straight on the circle in medium canter as soon as the quality of the canter deteriorated.
Spencer and Dolendo were lovely as ever. They did the zig zag half passes - they worked on an exercise to stop the horse anticipating the change and drifting in the change of hand. The worked a bit on the piaffe and passage, but not on the transitions between them. The piaffe was asked for from walk, and they did lots of passage-trot transitions.
Anky rode Krack C on the first day, in which she showed some hyperflexion training. I still don't really understand the benefits of this, but when she did it it looked totally different from overbending which we saw in some of the other horses (especially Andrew's and Simone's on the first day). She seems to use it to stop Krack from getting strong and running onto her hands. But I just don't t really understand it (probably way beyond the likes of me).
She rode Painted Black on the second day and that was very impressive. She didn't use the hyperflexion (perhaps because Painted was nice and relaxed and didn't seem strong or spooky like Krack?). She worked him in long and low, then worked on transitions from walk to trot and within the trot to check that he was totally in front of the leg. They did some tempi changes and Sjef explained that the horse still wasn't totally consistant in his changes. Then they did some walk and "almost halts" to introduce the piaffe, and Painted showed one of the most stunning piaffes I've seen in ages. I think Anky was finding it hard (she's nearly 6 months pregnant), but you could see how talented and happy that horse it.
The most impressive part of the two days for me was their open-ness and interaction with the audience. It didn't degenerate into a discussion of hyperflexion (thank god), althought this was discussed quite frankly. The main message that I took home with me is that there are many tools that can be used in the training of a horse, and the skill of training involves knowing which tool to choose for the problems that a given horse is presenting at a specific moment in time. Their main theory is that you should make things as clear and logical for the horse as possible and not confuse him with too many simultaneous aids or instructions.
There was a lot to take it, but it was an extremely interesting two days.
CSYMolly
Well-Known Member
Wow what a good report thanks for that.
Bananaman
Well-Known Member
Sums it up in a nutshell, Madmare...........excellent report!
I'd agree totally. Particularly on the Saturday, I think there was definate misunderstanding with most of the riders, not just Roland, as to what was wanted from them at the start.
They had obviously warmed their horses up outside before coming before the audience, then Anky and Sjef asked them to go away and warm up as they would at home. So most, I think Spencer was the exception but going last he'd possibly watched what had happened before?, went away and carried on working in seemingly from where they'd left off outside.
Anky wanted to see the horses working lower and more in front of the vertical, then working on basic transitions to get them in front of the leg. The riders were ticked off for riding lateral exercises so early in their warm up but I do think the riders misunderstood what they were supposed to show as they'd already done that bit outside.
On the second day, they didn't spend so long on the warm up,(in front of us), and concentrated on the exercises mentioned.
The riders were also not allowed to use carry a whip, unless they had good reason to do so.
The emphasis was very much on keeping it simple for both the horse and rider and on the rider not doing very much of anything.
In other words, the horse has to be so switched on that any response is immediate.
An excellent and inspiring two days.
I'd agree totally. Particularly on the Saturday, I think there was definate misunderstanding with most of the riders, not just Roland, as to what was wanted from them at the start.
They had obviously warmed their horses up outside before coming before the audience, then Anky and Sjef asked them to go away and warm up as they would at home. So most, I think Spencer was the exception but going last he'd possibly watched what had happened before?, went away and carried on working in seemingly from where they'd left off outside.
Anky wanted to see the horses working lower and more in front of the vertical, then working on basic transitions to get them in front of the leg. The riders were ticked off for riding lateral exercises so early in their warm up but I do think the riders misunderstood what they were supposed to show as they'd already done that bit outside.
On the second day, they didn't spend so long on the warm up,(in front of us), and concentrated on the exercises mentioned.
The riders were also not allowed to use carry a whip, unless they had good reason to do so.
The emphasis was very much on keeping it simple for both the horse and rider and on the rider not doing very much of anything.
In other words, the horse has to be so switched on that any response is immediate.
An excellent and inspiring two days.
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
It didn't help that the acoustics in the new arena were not great - it was really hard (from where I was sitting anyway) to hear what Sjef was saying on the first day. Also, apparently the riders in the ring had difficulty hearing what Sjef and Anky were saying.
cosmo_sam
Well-Known Member
My instructor went, and we spent most of our lesson yesterday talking about the issue's brought up.
It did sound wonderful, and I'm glad the hyperflexion issue was discussed openly. My conclusion from what Sue said, is that in the right hands (and there may only be a few sets of hands in the world) it has it's uses to stretch the muscle infront of the wither, but I don't think it sounds like it should be recommended to the general riding public! I like the fact that she spoke up for the fact that working constantly uphill in a show outline is equally if not more damaging.
I also believe that something along the lines of instructor's who bang on about riding inside leg to outide rein CONSTANTLY and for all occasions, irrespective of whether a horse is ready for that/has other more pressing issues to be dealt with, should be shot!! That made my instructor's day!
It sounded to me, like Anky and her hubby, pretty much burst the bubble that seems to be BD, where the same problems keep being perpetuated, by grass roots trainers teaching the same bad thinking, which results in most horses being rushed/blocked by a bad foundation.
I love the fact that she was saying "Why are you still using your leg? Give an aid, and then take it off! simple!" My instructor has drummed that into us, but most friends I know insist on over use of the leg/seat/everything! We all learn how to put an aid on, but few seem to learn the benefit of taking it off
I really wish I'd have seen the demo myself, but count myself lucky my instructor is so keen on passing anything she learns straight down to us
It did sound wonderful, and I'm glad the hyperflexion issue was discussed openly. My conclusion from what Sue said, is that in the right hands (and there may only be a few sets of hands in the world) it has it's uses to stretch the muscle infront of the wither, but I don't think it sounds like it should be recommended to the general riding public! I like the fact that she spoke up for the fact that working constantly uphill in a show outline is equally if not more damaging.
I also believe that something along the lines of instructor's who bang on about riding inside leg to outide rein CONSTANTLY and for all occasions, irrespective of whether a horse is ready for that/has other more pressing issues to be dealt with, should be shot!! That made my instructor's day!
It sounded to me, like Anky and her hubby, pretty much burst the bubble that seems to be BD, where the same problems keep being perpetuated, by grass roots trainers teaching the same bad thinking, which results in most horses being rushed/blocked by a bad foundation.
I love the fact that she was saying "Why are you still using your leg? Give an aid, and then take it off! simple!" My instructor has drummed that into us, but most friends I know insist on over use of the leg/seat/everything! We all learn how to put an aid on, but few seem to learn the benefit of taking it off
I really wish I'd have seen the demo myself, but count myself lucky my instructor is so keen on passing anything she learns straight down to us