Puppy
Well-Known Member
Riiiiight!!
Did you know!!!!!!!!
- Thread starter soph21
- Start date
Tia
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest; which NH/IH idol does she promote?
S_N
Well-Known Member
For clarity's sake, is she a Natural Horsemanship trainer or a National Hunt trainer?
Blizzard
Well-Known Member
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she's a top NH lady so im not going to question what she says as ive been doing NH and it works alot better than all the normal methods of handling horses. its really interesting. i would reccomend everybody tries it. if all else fails at the end of it you will have a horse with bloody good manners!!!
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Debatable.
Just because she does NH doesnt mean she is the fountain of knowledge. I also wasnt aware that NH gave you the power to understand the biology and chemistry of horses.
she's a top NH lady so im not going to question what she says as ive been doing NH and it works alot better than all the normal methods of handling horses. its really interesting. i would reccomend everybody tries it. if all else fails at the end of it you will have a horse with bloody good manners!!!
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Debatable.
Just because she does NH doesnt mean she is the fountain of knowledge. I also wasnt aware that NH gave you the power to understand the biology and chemistry of horses.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
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he he he niether do i!!! and i know someone with a yard full of lucitanos and andilucians (sorry about spelling)
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Well seeing that I grew up in Spain with yards full of Andalucians, what on earth is your point?!
he he he niether do i!!! and i know someone with a yard full of lucitanos and andilucians (sorry about spelling)
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Well seeing that I grew up in Spain with yards full of Andalucians, what on earth is your point?!
soph21
Well-Known Member
Natural Horsemanship
Tia
Well-Known Member
Who's type of NH though? Monty, Kelly or whom??
Blizzard
Well-Known Member
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he he he niether do i!!! and i know someone with a yard full of lucitanos and andilucians (sorry about spelling)
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Well seeing that I grew up in Spain with yards full of Andalucians, what on earth is your point?!
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Yes but did you grow up with andilucians, perhaps they are more sensitive? 10,000 times more.
LOL.
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he he he niether do i!!! and i know someone with a yard full of lucitanos and andilucians (sorry about spelling)
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Well seeing that I grew up in Spain with yards full of Andalucians, what on earth is your point?!
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Yes but did you grow up with andilucians, perhaps they are more sensitive? 10,000 times more.
LOL.
Santa_Claus
Well-Known Member
yes i knew that
but only because friend who did equine science degree told me!!
and the BIG BUT is i don't believe it was 10,000 times. I have always known chestnuts have more sensitive skin (owned enough to know!) especially bright orangey chestnuts, so it was nice to be given verification for the reason why.
I'm trying to remember what friend told me but it was on the line not all chestnuts are as sensitive as it is very dependant on the the hair colour genes and the skin colour. Essentially there is truth to it but the horse isn't 10,000 times more sensitive....
and the BIG BUT is i don't believe it was 10,000 times. I have always known chestnuts have more sensitive skin (owned enough to know!) especially bright orangey chestnuts, so it was nice to be given verification for the reason why.
I'm trying to remember what friend told me but it was on the line not all chestnuts are as sensitive as it is very dependant on the the hair colour genes and the skin colour. Essentially there is truth to it but the horse isn't 10,000 times more sensitive....
jesterfaerie
Well-Known Member
You know what, I am going to go out and become a master at NH and then roll off a whole loads of bull to see who buys it.
My point being just because she is qualified (or whatever) in NH doesn't mean everything which comes out of her mouth is true!
My point being just because she is qualified (or whatever) in NH doesn't mean everything which comes out of her mouth is true!
hatters
Well-Known Member
Surely this is a wind up?
soph21
Well-Known Member
For F**k sake why do you all get so bitchy? its a topic for people that are interested!!! if you have nothing nice or interesting to say dont bloody bother!! and i was agreeing with carthorse that i dont know of any chestnuts with pink skin. its an unknown fact OBVIOUSLY!! which i happen to believe is true! please dont get you're backs up about something just because you dont agree.
jesterfaerie
Well-Known Member
Sophie it is not b*tchy at all, we are simply disagreeing with the fact some horses (be it chestnut or bay) are 10,000 times more sensive than other horses. That is an extreamly high number, twice as sensitive sure, 10 times highly doubtful but 10,000 times seems rather extream hence why people do not think it is true.
Blizzard
Well-Known Member
Ok looking at it realistically, so you have a normal horse, say a black one, and then you have a chestnut one, the chestnut one is TEN THOUSNAD more times more sensitive?
And yet you can still even touch it, surely being that much more sensitive would make them die of a heart attack frm a spot of rain landing on them.
Everyone has heard the old saying about chestnut mares, and yes its well known that some skin colours are more sensitive than others, looks at horses with pale muzzles who are prone to sunburn.
But a bit of common sense doesnt go amiss.
And yet you can still even touch it, surely being that much more sensitive would make them die of a heart attack frm a spot of rain landing on them.
Everyone has heard the old saying about chestnut mares, and yes its well known that some skin colours are more sensitive than others, looks at horses with pale muzzles who are prone to sunburn.
But a bit of common sense doesnt go amiss.
Weezy
Well-Known Member
I wasn't being bitchy, I just wondered where your comment regarding Lusos and Andys came from
Tia
Well-Known Member
How can it be an unknown fact? A fact is something which is known.
For the third time, can you please tell me which horsemaster she follows? Is it Monty, Kelly or someone else? Or is the reason you haven't answered previously because you don't know?
For the third time, can you please tell me which horsemaster she follows? Is it Monty, Kelly or someone else? Or is the reason you haven't answered previously because you don't know?
soph21
Well-Known Member
yes i know some people think its a load of s**t but theres no need to get so nasty with the replies.
soph21
Well-Known Member
oh sorry thought i put it in the last post, Monty Roberts
Blizzard
Well-Known Member
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yes i know some people think its a load of s**t but theres no need to get so nasty with the replies.
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There is only one person swearing ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No one is getting bitchy, we just all have different opinions.
yes i know some people think its a load of s**t but theres no need to get so nasty with the replies.
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There is only one person swearing ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
No one is getting bitchy, we just all have different opinions.
k1963
Well-Known Member
I read recently that red haired people are more sensitive to pain - I'm not a redhead & I don't know if it's true or not , but it is food for thought .....
jesterfaerie
Well-Known Member
Sophie, one thing which I have learnt on HHO is that if you post something which you consider being a fact because you heard it off someone (whether they are a NH or a show jumper) and it turns out that it is not a fact, quite the opposite then you may not get happy and cheerful replies.
Whatever you post you are opening yourself up to ANY sort of reply, good or bad ones.
Whatever you post you are opening yourself up to ANY sort of reply, good or bad ones.
soph21
Well-Known Member
by the time ive typed out a reply theres 2 or 3 more comments so it gets confusing, and im not that fast at typing!!!
Tia
Well-Known Member
Oh perhaps it was me being blind, sorry. I am in the middle of doing laundry so am getting a bit left behind here.
However, as you said it was Monty, I read something he said some time ago which you may like to pass on to your friend which completely alters what she has told you. You'll have to give me a few minutes to find it though....don't go away!!
However, as you said it was Monty, I read something he said some time ago which you may like to pass on to your friend which completely alters what she has told you. You'll have to give me a few minutes to find it though....don't go away!!
soph21
Well-Known Member
oh did i write it then? (re:monty roberts) it must be on previous page!! i only got told by a friend today and i thought it was quite exciting at the time but its not anymore!!
Tia
Well-Known Member
Okay here is what Monty has to say on hair colour;
http://www.montyroberts.com/ju_ask_monty_0605.html
And in script for those who may not get the link:
Question: "An old-timer told me that horses of different skin color have different sensitivities and that the darker the skin (like true black), the more sensitive a horse will be. He told me that greys are the least sensitive and will take all kinds of kicking and/or spurring while a black horse will not tolerate it. And he said that sometimes the way a horse is being ridden if it happens to have sensitive skin will cause the horse to appear to be rank, or nervous, or unmanageable. For example, some horses might start bucking because a person is putting their heels into its side which shouldn't normally be a problem except the horse is just extra sensitive. What is your experience with this? I have found that it is even true with dogs."
Answer:
Without scientific proof of my theories, I will explain to you what experience has taught me over the past six decades.
It seems evident to me that many people concern themselves with hair color where sensitivity is concerned. I believe that it is far more important to look at the color of the skin as opposed to the color of the hair. If we accept these premises as gospel than the black horse with black horse with black skin sits on one end of the spectrum and the true albino sits on the other end.
I dont believe that either of these assumptions is necessarily correct. I am also of the opinion that it is quite incorrect that black horses with black skin are the most sensitive because, I believe that in fact they tend to be the least sensitive.
If we can pull any actual scientific data into this discussion I believe that it is evidenced by companies that produce counterirritants used to increase circulation in joints requiring therapy. For the past 80 years or so, these companies have observed that chestnut horses with white legs which have light colored skin are far more sensitive to these substances. I have personally experienced significant edema with white legged chestnuts even when preparations were administered at half dose.
It is my opinion that light skinned horses have nerve ganglion closer to the surface and tend to be more sensitive than dark skinned horses. Perhaps we could locate studies done on this subject with todays almighty internet. If any of you have information on the subject, please send it through to newsletter@montyroberts.com and we will respond appropriately.
http://www.montyroberts.com/ju_ask_monty_0605.html
And in script for those who may not get the link:
Question: "An old-timer told me that horses of different skin color have different sensitivities and that the darker the skin (like true black), the more sensitive a horse will be. He told me that greys are the least sensitive and will take all kinds of kicking and/or spurring while a black horse will not tolerate it. And he said that sometimes the way a horse is being ridden if it happens to have sensitive skin will cause the horse to appear to be rank, or nervous, or unmanageable. For example, some horses might start bucking because a person is putting their heels into its side which shouldn't normally be a problem except the horse is just extra sensitive. What is your experience with this? I have found that it is even true with dogs."
Answer:
Without scientific proof of my theories, I will explain to you what experience has taught me over the past six decades.
It seems evident to me that many people concern themselves with hair color where sensitivity is concerned. I believe that it is far more important to look at the color of the skin as opposed to the color of the hair. If we accept these premises as gospel than the black horse with black horse with black skin sits on one end of the spectrum and the true albino sits on the other end.
I dont believe that either of these assumptions is necessarily correct. I am also of the opinion that it is quite incorrect that black horses with black skin are the most sensitive because, I believe that in fact they tend to be the least sensitive.
If we can pull any actual scientific data into this discussion I believe that it is evidenced by companies that produce counterirritants used to increase circulation in joints requiring therapy. For the past 80 years or so, these companies have observed that chestnut horses with white legs which have light colored skin are far more sensitive to these substances. I have personally experienced significant edema with white legged chestnuts even when preparations were administered at half dose.
It is my opinion that light skinned horses have nerve ganglion closer to the surface and tend to be more sensitive than dark skinned horses. Perhaps we could locate studies done on this subject with todays almighty internet. If any of you have information on the subject, please send it through to newsletter@montyroberts.com and we will respond appropriately.
Santa_Claus
Well-Known Member
QR
ok apparently it is all to do with something called MCR1 mutations. This is a gene mutation which causes red hair, be that in a human, a horse, a dog or even a fox.
http://www.ratbehavior.org/CoatColorMutations.htm gives the startings of the info...
The mutation leads to other characteristics including heightened sensitivity and also proneness to certain things. For example red headed people are more susceptible to cancer...
if you go to http://www.answers.com/topic/red-hair it gives the following which explains the sensitivity to pain
"Sensitivity to pain
In people with red hair, the cells that produce skin and hair pigment have a dysfunctional MCR1. Researchers have found that this dysfunction triggers the release of more of the hormone that stimulates these cells, but this hormone also stimulates a brain receptor related to pain sensitivity.[23][24]
Two studies have demonstrated that redheads have differential sensitivity to pain compared to non-redheads, but they differ as to the direction of the effect. One study found that redheads are more sensitive to thermal pain,[25] while another study concluded that redheads are less sensitive to pain from electrical stimuli. It has also been found that mutated "redheaded" mice with non-functional MCR1 are less sensitive to pain from multiple modalities.[26]
Researchers have found that redheads require greater amounts of anesthesia, but other research shows that women with naturally red hair require less of the painkiller pentazocine than do either women of other hair colors or men of any hair color. A study showed redheaded women had a greater analgesic response to that particular pain medication than men.[27] A follow-up study by the same group showed that redheaded men and women (and mutant "redhead" mice) had a greater analgesic response to morphine-6-glucuronide.[26]"
ok apparently it is all to do with something called MCR1 mutations. This is a gene mutation which causes red hair, be that in a human, a horse, a dog or even a fox.
http://www.ratbehavior.org/CoatColorMutations.htm gives the startings of the info...
The mutation leads to other characteristics including heightened sensitivity and also proneness to certain things. For example red headed people are more susceptible to cancer...
if you go to http://www.answers.com/topic/red-hair it gives the following which explains the sensitivity to pain
"Sensitivity to pain
In people with red hair, the cells that produce skin and hair pigment have a dysfunctional MCR1. Researchers have found that this dysfunction triggers the release of more of the hormone that stimulates these cells, but this hormone also stimulates a brain receptor related to pain sensitivity.[23][24]
Two studies have demonstrated that redheads have differential sensitivity to pain compared to non-redheads, but they differ as to the direction of the effect. One study found that redheads are more sensitive to thermal pain,[25] while another study concluded that redheads are less sensitive to pain from electrical stimuli. It has also been found that mutated "redheaded" mice with non-functional MCR1 are less sensitive to pain from multiple modalities.[26]
Researchers have found that redheads require greater amounts of anesthesia, but other research shows that women with naturally red hair require less of the painkiller pentazocine than do either women of other hair colors or men of any hair color. A study showed redheaded women had a greater analgesic response to that particular pain medication than men.[27] A follow-up study by the same group showed that redheaded men and women (and mutant "redhead" mice) had a greater analgesic response to morphine-6-glucuronide.[26]"
soph21
Well-Known Member
its not a ''fact'' told by my friend it was the lady that was teaching the Natural Horsemanship years ago, just to clear that up!!! my friend is a teaching instructor and works the horses (that need it) with the natural horsemanship. she doesn't go silly with it ie: crouching down in the middle of a field for hours waiting for a horse to come over to her. its more using a pressure halter (for bad manners etc) and working out why a horse has got a problem or attitude etc.....................
Blizzard
Well-Known Member
My black horse has the sensitivity of a brick, nothing bothers him, he is as tough as old boots!
Very interesting Tia what Monty said, clearly his follower hasnt been keeping up to date.
Very interesting Tia what Monty said, clearly his follower hasnt been keeping up to date.
Santa_Claus
Well-Known Member
hint if you are using the quick reply function it is very beneficial to put QR at the top of your posts so that it is clear you are not replying to the post you actually end up replying to (if that makes sense!)
Gentle_Warrior
Well-Known Member
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Can you please post the link to this and I will show it to my 7 chestnut horses, because they quite obviously have not read this piece of literature!
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Same here - my gelding is in the same boat
Can you please post the link to this and I will show it to my 7 chestnut horses, because they quite obviously have not read this piece of literature!
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Same here - my gelding is in the same boat