Didn't even make it on the lorry

Twinkley Lights

Twinkley Lights

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 August 2012
Messages
1,944
Location
Up to no good
Visit site
As some on here may know, despite numerous visits and hacking jumping etc where he was a star - I was sold a rearer 3 weeks ago:(

Today we had an appt with a local eventer to look at reschooling etc. Well we tried for over 2 hours with lunge lines on bum , food etc but didn't get him on the lorry he was foot planting at first and then rearing and rearing down multiple times on the lorry ramp and on the ground to stop him being led towards the lorry. We had to stop as he was rearing so much on the ramp over our heads he was being led it was dangerous.

The eventer has very kindly offered to come to my yard at 4.30 -5 today to check him here. I thought the initial series of rears in the school the other week could be pain, fear or settling in. I now feel for certain that this is a learned and very practised form of napping, he has been used to getting his way and using all his strength to get there. When we weren't trying to load him he was very chilled and friendly on the ground and trying to nuzzle us.

It's such a sad thing as I don't know what the future will hold for him if we can't get this sorted.
 
Not yet bloods are being tested it can take 2 weeks longer if they find something I was advised.Though I must say if I'd known what the dishonest rat that sold him to me had given him he would have had some this afternoon!
 
Shivvy said:
When we weren't trying to load him he was very chilled and friendly on the ground and trying to nuzzle us.
Click to expand...

So he's not an evil horse or doing this out of badness, does it make you wonder if he's trying to tell you something in the only way he knows?
There are many horses found to have kissing spines after being declared pain free by professionals and bad behaviour is still continuing. Sorry if this has been thoroughly investigated.
Have you any full body pics?
 
muff747 said:
So he's not an evil horse or doing this out of badness, does it make you wonder if he's trying to tell you something in the only way he knows?
There are many horses found to have kissing spines after being declared pain free by professionals and bad behaviour is still continuing. Sorry if this has been thoroughly investigated.
Have you any full body pics?
Click to expand...

Just by way of the 5 stage vetting. One of the ladies helping me today said he had a nasty eye but he doesn't he is kind eyed just sometimes fresh like a normal 6 year old and then this. May be that he doesn't want to get on the lorry as he knows he will be worked and is in pain but then he seems happy to leap, buck and prance in the field to get my mare to look at him so can't tell.

I so wish they could talk......
 
muff747 said:
So he's not an evil horse or doing this out of badness, does it make you wonder if he's trying to tell you something in the only way he knows?
There are many horses found to have kissing spines after being declared pain free by professionals and bad behaviour is still continuing. Sorry if this has been thoroughly investigated.
Have you any full body pics?
Click to expand...

echoing this, now know a couple of horses that had been vetted, under physio and ended up both found to having kissing spines. OP this horse is very lucky to have found you - as sounds like you want to get to the bottom of it! Absolutely disgusted by the people who sold him to you knowing he reared! Good luck, and keep us posted what happens this afternoon!
 
Hey I had the same problems with a mare I owned. When my parents bought her for me she was already in the yard I was working in at the time, so Id never seen her loading/travelling before she was purchased. I know now in hind-sight that we should have seen what she was like but the deal was done very quick and it never occured to me that she would be such a handful.

I had her about a month when I decided to take her to our first show, it was only 10minutes down the road but with traffic I thought itd be safer to stick her in the box.. well.. 2 1/2 hours later we were left defeated. I had clearly missed my class but I didnt want to her get the better of me but it got to the point where it was getting dangerous... rearing, kicking out, biting, ripping the rope out of your hand.. the works.. So I phoned that man who we bought her of to ask how the heck he got her to our yard in the first place.. these are his very words.. "aw thats easy just reverse the trailer up to the stable door and batter the ******er in!! ... I was lost for words, it suddenly occured to me that the minute this horse saw a trailer she associated it with pain.

It mighten be what you want to hear but it took months maybe even a year now that I really think about it to get her to walk into the trailer easily and calmly. Sometimes I would just go down to the yard for a whole day walking her in to the trailer and out through the front ramp and giving her as many carrots/apples/polos as she could eat and talking to her the whole time. She gradually starting trusting me that I wasnt going to batter her. And I can happily say that once she had total trust in me she was actually nearly charging onto the trailer, I think she was all exicted to see where she was going for the day.. because I would make a point of taking her in the trailer to the beach or a small hunt.. something fun for her, so that when she saw the trailer she was associate it with something that she had enjoyed a time before.. I know that might sound silly but it really worked for her.

With your horse it could have been a case of this - getting battered in, or your horse maybe got a really bad fright in a trailer or lorry, maybe a fall or got a bad kick, you can never be sure but either way your going to need loads of patience to get your horsey trusting you so that they know when they see the lorry or trailer that nothing bad to going to happen.

I think theres a few videos on youtube actually showing techiques on how to load a tricky horse, they might help. Its good if you can actually watch someone.

I hope you get sorted, I really know what your going through, its so frustrating and dangerous but with time and loads of patience youll gain your horses trust and also working on this might help with your horses napping when your in the saddle, when I was in breaking if we got a horse that was skitty or rough we would leaving the backing for a few weeks and just spend as much time grooming and chatting to the horse in the stable, maybe take them for a walk on the lead rope, getting them to trust you and listen to you voice.

I know them techiques mighten work for everyone, but I always found that once the horse was trusting and listening to you on the ground, life was always alot easier in the saddle.

Good luck :)
 
Feel so sorry for you. My boy is prone to sudden panic attacks under saddle or with the lunge roller. He was found to have very severe kissing spines even though he had been pronounced pain free by vets and physios (two of each!). Despite having the op though, he is still the same and so I think it is something else. He is weird, just like your boy. He will be terrible with the farrier, leaping around, kicking his legs violently etc, but still be nuzzling me and munching his hay! Yesterday he had a huge panic attack whilst lunging in the pessoa, spinning, rearing and shaking. But when I walked up to him he rubbed his head on me and was totally chilled. :confused: I am now wondering if the whole thing is just mental and he just doesn't like feeling restrained. It makes him panic. I agree, if only they could talk. I am a big believer that horses always do things for a reason (usually pain), and that they are not just purposely uncooperative. Who knows though really. :(
 
Thanks so much for the replies it feels better to know that others have had similar issues as I feel so silly that I can't ride or load my horse and don't know why.

I will let you know what the eventer says this evening depending on how far we get with that.
 
This is gona sound abit weird. But. Maybe he's scared of going some where else again? Lorry means. Moving house,

My old pony. Was sold 9 times in 3 years I had him for 13 years and noticed every year between march and. July. He cud b very dangerous. Kicking ( broke my friends Ribs and my dads hand) no one cud get near him to catch him with out a kicking. Traced his old owners. He was sold between feb n August. He was full of arthritis and over jumped ( he wudnt say no to anyjump) As the years went on I learnt wot made him tick. Got a very helpful guy out to help me catch and ride him with out ending up in a&e


Maybe he's scared of going some where else again? X
 
Shivvy said:
Just by way of the 5 stage vetting. One of the ladies helping me today said he had a nasty eye but he doesn't he is kind eyed just sometimes fresh like a normal 6 year old and then this. May be that he doesn't want to get on the lorry as he knows he will be worked and is in pain but then he seems happy to leap, buck and prance in the field to get my mare to look at him so can't tell.

I so wish they could talk......
Click to expand...
I think it is unlikely that he refused to load due to looking in to his future so specifically, I am sure it is a behaviour he has practised.
I have had loading problems and was advised by a top transporter to keep him short of food [12 hours was mentioned] but mine does not rear, just does not walk on, but he has shown resistance, and that can easily turn to rearing. Make sure you are not rewarding him when he refuses to go on to the lorry, and then stands quietly, I would back him up as soon as he comes of the lorry, not rub his head when standing still. Make it hard work for him off the lorry, make it easier to go on board. He needs a lot of groundwork by the sounds of things.
Don't listen to "evil eye" talk, you would have seen that yourself.
 
Last edited:
circuit dancer said:
This is gona sound abit weird. But. Maybe he's scared of going some where else again? Lorry means. Moving house,

Maybe he's scared of going some where else again? X
Click to expand...
In spite of what I said in my previous post [re lorry=work=pain], I can agree with this possibility as I think this is why my boy suddenly stopped loading, but OP has numerous issues with this horse, rearing in other situations. Rearing horses are generally frightened horses, and also usually lack confidence in their handler,, not that I blame OP, it all sounds a nightmare.
AN ASIDE
Stallions often rear, this is why TB stallions are usually led on a nose chain and a long rope. A rearing horse handler must use a long rope for their own safety. It can also be used to rap them on the shoulder when they get too outrageous.
 
Having bought a pony that was found to rear and nap, despite taking my three children out and trialling her on two seperate occasions, vet check, spoke to instructors at the pony club the girl attended (and where the pony had done well), I understand your frustration and disapointment.

I believe that the pony had done this with the girl, but had settled, as over time the pony settled with us, and the rearing, napping, pulling back when tied up, etc all became much less of an issue. There were/are triggers though and she is very prone to restart these things with new people, new places, and if you are not really relaxed and calm when riding, also alpacas, vets, equine dentists, wormers, strange/new smells will set her off.

I could not ride her even a few steps when I got her home, she just went straight up, she lugged to the left, napped, reared, and reared throughout float loading. Her behaviour is a reaction to anything stressful at all. She is an anxious pony. It is a learned behaviour/response, we were with NH instructor help and time able to resolve the worst of it. (we ended up leaving her in the paddock unridden for about 6 months, she got used to us and the place, and we started slowly, and built up, plus worked on changing some patterns). (She is an excellent floater now, we just point her at it and she loads herself).

However, she is really unsaleable, and because she has a tendency to rear when my daughter suffers from competition nerves, it means that while she is capable of behaving like a dream pony at pony club rally days, on any competition day she can be inconsistent she may perform like a star, or she may not even get into the arena. She has reared her way through a dressage test, and mounted games, she went really well, but every now and then she refused to start over the line, as she reared and napped, and then a few minutes later fine again (but too late). Really frustrating esp. when part of a team.

So I would look at what recourse you have against the seller, I do not know what you spent, but to me a pony that rears has little value on the open market. However, it can be an expensive process, stressful, time consuming and not always succesful to attempt to recover your money/return the pony.
 
Wagtail said:
Feel so sorry for you. My boy is prone to sudden panic attacks under saddle or with the lunge roller. He was found to have very severe kissing spines even though he had been pronounced pain free by vets and physios (two of each!). Despite having the op though, he is still the same and so I think it is something else. He is weird, just like your boy. He will be terrible with the farrier, leaping around, kicking his legs violently etc, but still be nuzzling me and munching his hay! Yesterday he had a huge panic attack whilst lunging in the pessoa, spinning, rearing and shaking. But when I walked up to him he rubbed his head on me and was totally chilled. :confused: I am now wondering if the whole thing is just mental and he just doesn't like feeling restrained. It makes him panic. I agree, if only they could talk. I am a big believer that horses always do things for a reason (usually pain), and that they are not just purposely uncooperative. Who knows though really. :(
Click to expand...

Sounds like foot pain, have you had nerve blocks on the feet?
 


Not sure if it worked this is him side on.
 
Wagtail said:
Feel so sorry for you. My boy is prone to sudden panic attacks under saddle or with the lunge roller. He was found to have very severe kissing spines even though he had been pronounced pain free by vets and physios (two of each!). Despite having the op though, he is still the same and so I think it is something else. He is weird, just like your boy. He will be terrible with the farrier, leaping around, kicking his legs violently etc, but still be nuzzling me and munching his hay! Yesterday he had a huge panic attack whilst lunging in the pessoa, spinning, rearing and shaking. But when I walked up to him he rubbed his head on me and was totally chilled. :confused: I am now wondering if the whole thing is just mental and he just doesn't like feeling restrained. It makes him panic. I agree, if only they could talk. I am a big believer that horses always do things for a reason (usually pain), and that they are not just purposely uncooperative. Who knows though really. :(
Click to expand...
Interesting post, I once rode a racehorse called Lemon Bridge, notable in that I would be cantering up the gallops, then suddenly a huge spurt of excess energy which went back to normal just as suddenly a few furlongs later, she was sound, otherwise normal in every respect. No pain involved judging from ears still in same place, and all other signs normal.
We know very little, but what we do know is that the majority of horses are sane and sound, until we [humans] interfere.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks so much for the replies it feels better to know that others have had similar issues as I feel so silly that I can't ride or load my horse and don't know why.

I will let you know what the eventer says this evening depending on how far we get with that.
Click to expand...
I went down the "why is he doing this business", ie what mental issue has brought him to this place, with many horses it is "leadership confusion" and there will be a solution [I am assuming no sudden pain issue], actually he sounds to me as though he will respond, but you may not be strong enough or sufficiantly skilled, but you may be, we don't know at this stage.
 
Well the eventer came and didn't give in despite rearing etc and 20 mins later he was in the lorry. I feel terrible to say that I felt an immense sense of relief when he left my yard.

The eventer asked what I wanted to happen and I said he's not a horse for me but I want him to have a chance to be reschooled and sold honestly. His view at present is that he is sharp and is testing us out, he is going to get on tomorrow and will let me know in 2-3 days. Did say he was very nice and that he was far too cheap for and event horse / jumper of his breeding and outings to date which would no doubt have rung some bells in someone more experienced than me - to me he was an ok price on lower end for RC / PC stuff :( anyway another slight positive was that he felt if talented rearing is not such an issue for competition riders.
 
Shivvy please don't beat yourself up, I got a youngster last year which I tried and tested and it ended up being a horror (was lovely when I went to try him), I tried everything but in the end admitted defeat and sent him back to his owner. Hopefully his okay now.

You clearly have this horses best interests at heart as imagine sending him to the event yard is not going to be cheap and you never know they might be able to sort him and you could still end up with a lovely horse, if not, you will know you have done your best to give him a chance of finding the right home and you can go on and find your perfect match.
 
Well done Shivvy , I applaud you for doing the right thing by this horse put it behind you now and try and go and ride a nice straight forward horse somewhere, if he was your only one ,just to remember what fun it should be.
 
Goldenstar said:
Well done Shivvy , I applaud you for doing the right thing by this horse put it behind you now and try and go and ride a nice straight forward horse somewhere, if he was your only one ,just to remember what fun it should be.
Click to expand...

Thanks you are all so kind, once I get over this - probably won't but I will find a place to process it, then the next one will be loan wvtb as I'm scared stiff. Today was a total horror - I'm off wine during the week for my fat bum but I'm having a sancerre on my own hubby isn't back yet to chill me down a few notches.

I also have a near 14hh rescue mare in the yard that needs the work and I used to think she was sharp I now know the meaning of that word:eek: She may be my project until I have the guts to look again.
 
Shivvy said:
Thanks you are all so kind, once I get over this - probably won't but I will find a place to process it, then the next one will be loan wvtb as I'm scared stiff. Today was a total horror - I'm off wine during the week for my fat bum but I'm having a sancerre on my own hubby isn't back yet to chill me down a few notches.

I also have a near 14hh rescue mare in the yard that needs the work and I used to think she was sharp I now know the meaning of that word:eek: She may be my project until I have the guts to look again.
Click to expand...

You've definitely done the right thing - you are giving him a chance which is more than he may have had if he had gone back to be sold yet again without proper training. Have the whole bottle tonight if you feel like it - you can always have a day off at the weekend instead! Cheers! Here's to your next horse as and when you start looking! :) xx
 
That's good that he's gone for assessment. I hope you don't end up losing a lot of money but in this situation you really are best off cutting your losses ASAP and just making sure you don't get yourself hurt.
 
Well done for being so responsible but do not give up hope a very dear friend of mine two years ago purchased a six yr old of superb dressage breeding from a dodgy dealer and he was a chronic rearer, her mother wanted him shot no one else would give him the time of day bar my friend and my instructor. They kept going and discovered that he is just the most supremely nervous and sensitive horse ever. If you put him under excess pressure he rears, if he makes a mistake he panics and rears but its gone from not being able to go down the centre line without waving at the judges to successfully competing medium and working advanced at home and he just keeps getting better and better. He is phenomenally talented but a little pressure cooker its taken her two years but now he trusts her she knows how much pressure she can put on and how long for and the rears are comparatively few and far between so stay positive!!!
 
Well done for doing the right thing by him- I too hope you don't loose too much money, but money isn't everything, your safety and his come first!

To give you hope.... nearly a year ago, having sadly having had to have my old horse PTS, I bought a fab horse... like you I did all the right things, tried him out well, had him 5* vetted etc etc... he was amazing for 6 weeks- took him to RC camp the weekend after I bought him, hacked him alone and in company, had lessons, went to RC lessons away from home... really thought I'd bought a corker!

Then he started to buck.. and I mean proper buck... I've broken my back twice before, and really could not risk doing it again, and he scared me- I loved him to bits on the ground, but couldn't get on him for fear of him doing it again.

I sent him to a friend who is extremely experienced and talented with 'difficult' horses for assessment- he did the same thing with her and her staff- totally out of the blue, bucked for England. He didn't do it regularly- three or four times in six months with me, twice in two months with her- but when he did it he meant it- and I couldn't risk having him back.

Luckily for me my wonderful friend and one of her lovely staff put some work in and got him doing all the things I'd planned to do- a bit of SJ, XC etc.... and he proved very talented over a fence!

I sold him TOTALLY honestly to a fabulous lady who desperately wanted a horse that could do all the things he could do, but couldn't afford to buy one without a quirk- I sold him for about half what he was worth without his bucking.

His new owner adores him- and he's still doing his 'party trick' now and again with her- and despite loosing quite a bit of money on him, and MASSIVE amounts of confidence, I have now had my 'new boy' for just over a month.... my confidence is coming back slowly but surely, and I adore him!

There is hope- for him and for you! Good luck!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top