Difference in lozenge in bits

[MereChristmas]

I believe this may have been asked before but could someone explain the difference in the way these 2 lozenges act in the mouth please?
Also why one or the other would be chosen.
I can’t find any diagrams that show the movement of the bit when a contact is taken.
thank you

 

[SantaVera]

One is a french link and the other a Dr Bristol Which is supposed to be stronger than the French link, however a study found the opposite to be true. I don't have the link unfortunately, but I read the article some time ago and thought it interesting.

 

[MereChristmas]

One is a french link and the other a Dr Bristol Which is supposed to be stronger than the French link, however a study found the opposite to be true. I don't have the link unfortunately, but I read the article some time ago and thought it interesting.

Sorry I don’t think so. I have the bottom one. It is an oval lozenge. French links and Dr Bristols’s have, I believe, flat centre plates and the Dr Bristol has turns in the arms at the join to the centre plate.

I would like to know what difference the edge and angle of the lozenge makes on the tongue.

I read the article about the change in attitude to those bits. It was interesting. Especially as I always found a Dr Bristol better to use than a French link.

 

[criso]

The first is a lozenge of some sort, a french link is flat like a Dr Bristol but with a dent like picture below.

The second looks a bit short for a Dr Bristol, it's usually longer and sits so the edge goes more into the tongue. That's why traditionally it was said to be more severe than a french link, haven't seen the study backtoblack mentioned.

This is a Dr Bristol



OP not sure what sort of bit the first one is but if you look at the Neue Schule website there are lots of different types of lozenges with explanations. . The shape and size of the lozenge, the angle it's attached at and the shape of the arms all affect the action and difficult to tell from a photo.

 

[MereChristmas]

The first is a lozenge of some sort, a french link is flat like a Dr Bristol but with a dent like picture below.

The second looks a bit short for a Dr Bristol, it's usually longer and sits so the edge goes more into the tongue. That's why traditionally it was said to be more severe than a french link, haven't seen the study backtoblack mentioned.

This is a Dr Bristol

View attachment 124677

OP not sure what sort of bit the first one is but if you look at the Neue Schule website there are lots of different types of lozenges with explanations. . The shape and size of the lozenge, the angle it's attached at and the shape of the arms all affect the action and difficult to tell from a photo.

View attachment 124675

Yes, thank you. I have used both of these.
Both pictures I posted are lozenges. They are not flat like a Fr L or a Dr B.
I wanted to know if the lozenge joined to the arms differently made a difference to the effect on the tongue.

 

[criso]

I would like to know what difference the edge and angle of the lozenge makes on the tongue

That's why I mentioned NS. The difference very small changes in shape and angle in their products are shown with an explanation of the action in each case.

 

[criso]

Yes, thank you. I have used both of these.
Both pictures I posted are lozenges. They are not flat like a Fr L or a Dr B.
I wanted to know if the lozenge joined to the arms differently made a difference to the effect on the tongue.

Definitely, look at the NS tranz and team up for an example to compare. They explain the action better than me. Then look at the starter which has different arms.

 

[MereChristmas]

Definitely, look at the NS tranz and team up for an example to compare. They explain the action better than me. Then look at the starter which has different arms.

Where is the explanation of the action of NS bits please?
I can only find a description of how they are supposed to affect the horse’s way of going. Not what the movement inside the mouth is when a contact is taken.

None of the arms are like th Dr B. It has a turn in each arm which is opposite to the other. I don’t think a Dr B can be laid completely flat. Certainly my bits of 30 years ago never could.

Both the bits I pictured are symmetrical with slightly curved arms and lozenges.

The first bit I pictured is like the Tranz but has curved not bent arms.
The second bit I pictured is similar to the Team up which is described as a sort of Fr L as you say.

I still want to know the difference action on the tongue of the 2.
Can anyone send a link explaining it?
Thanks

 

[poiuytrewq]

Where is the explanation of the action of NS bits please?
I can only find a description of how they are supposed to affect the horse’s way of going. Not what the movement inside the mouth is when a contact is taken.

None of the arms are like th Dr B. It has a turn in each arm which is opposite to the other. I don’t think a Dr B can be laid completely flat. Certainly my bits of 30 years ago never could.

Both the bits I pictured are symmetrical with slightly curved arms and lozenges.

The first bit I pictured is like the Tranz but has curved not bent arms.
The second bit I pictured is similar to the Team up which is described as a sort of Fr L as you say.

I still want to know the difference action on the tongue of the 2.
Can anyone send a link explaining it?
Thanks

Thank you for asking all of this! My brain is constantly wondering at bit action. I find it really interesting and sometimes quite surprising, some seem to apparently defy physics.
Not always as you would think.

 

[ycbm]

View attachment 124673View attachment 124674
I believe this may have been asked before but could someone explain the difference in the way these 2 lozenges act in the mouth please?
Also why one or the other would be chosen.
I can’t find any diagrams that show the movement of the bit when a contact is taken.
thank you

The bottom one will wrap around the tongue and the top one will press an edge into the tongue at the centre.
.

 

[MereChristmas]

The bottom one will wrap around the tongue and the top one will press an edge into the tongue at the centre.
.

Aha!
Neue Schule only do eggbutt in the Tranz I think which is similar to my top picture. This bit may press an edge into the tongue?
The bottom one is marketed as giving a consistent message and being kinder as there is no edge to press on the tongue. They are also eggbutt.
I have one since Tuesday. We shall see what F thinks.
Thank you

 

[SantaVera]

I had a French link with an oval lozenge not a flat one.

 

[criso]

Where is the explanation of the action of NS bits please?
I can only find a description of how they are supposed to affect the horse’s way of going. Not what the movement inside the mouth is when a contact is taken.

Tranz

NS Tranz Angled Lozenge is aligned, uniquely, at 20° to the bore axes of the cheeks. When a contact is taken, the smoothly profiled lozenge and loops press gently down onto the centre of the tongue thus a higher level of communication through the rein is achieved. The more pressure – sensitive side areas of the tongue are thus relieved and the thicker less pressure-sensitive area is brought into play. The double joint allows more flexibility ensuring a clearer and more independent rein aid.

Team up

This lozenge is designed to share the tongue contact area with the adjacent loops to give a smoother feel over the tongue. The double joint allows more flexibility ensuring a clearer and more independent rein aid.

Or from horse bit bank

Ergonomically curved to encompass the tongue and align itself underneath the upper palate, giving very even gentle weight distribution. The