Differences in other countries

[ycbm]

I've noticed that we've recently had a lot of people joining the forum from outside the UK, and I've been very interested in differences in horse management in other countries.

So far I've noticed -

we seem to be very lucky in the UK to have ready access to vets who specialise in horses, with most of us registered with horse-only vets. People just over the water in France struggle to find that level of expertise, and there's someone in Bahrain with the same problem.

other countries don't seem to be able to insure like we can.

our vets use box rest a lot more than overseas vets.

we use hats a lot more and body protectors for ordinary riding are practically non existent.

we have a bigger emphasis on turnout than lots of European countries.

when I lived on the continent, ponies were rare and children learned on horses and were taught proper dressage right from the start.

I think I read that in France you can't compete a horse that isn't registered to a breed society, but I hope I'm wrong about that, since I own a fabulous horse whose breeding is unknown and it would be very unfair to exclude him from competing.

I also think I read that before you can compete in France you have to belong to a recognised riding club and have been assessed as capable. I'm not sure about that one. In principle it's a good idea, but what if there's only one club in your area and the person who runs it hates you?

people in the Republic of Ireland will happily hunt a three year old where most people in the UK would throw up their hands in horror at a three year old doing even the lightest of days out with hounds.

Britain is the only part of Europe where it is normal to turn away a horse after backing it.

The US call rugs blankets. We have blankets in the UK but they are either exercise blankets for use when riding, or for under rugs with no straps on the blanket.




I'd be interested to know what differences other people have spotted between the way different countries manage their horses. Particularly comments from our friends from outside the UK, but all welcome

 

[skewbaldmillie]

Having a couple of youngsters in France is odd. I am fairly sure in need to pass a galop 4 before you can compete but apparently you just have to be able to walk,trot,and canter a bit to pass that. I am a bit worried about breed society things too, as we are planning on moving across the water very soon but I don't want my very scopes unknown breeding Bsja horse not being allowed to compete. Luckily the youngsters are selle francais and kwpn so they should be fine. I have noticed that the farriers don't actually seem to exist in our part of France unless a horse is shod(which only seems to happen to race and high level competition horses) the owners just get a rasp and do their own. There are some very odd looking hooves next door

 

[ycbm]

Having a couple of youngsters in France is odd. I am fairly sure to pass a galop 4 before you can compete but apparently you just have to be able to walk,trot,and canter a bit to pass that. I am a bit worried about breed society things too, as we are planning on moving across the water very soon but I don't want my very scopes unknown breeding Bsja horse not being allowed to compete. Luckily the youngsters are selle francais and kwpn so they should be fine. I have noticed that the farriers don't actually seem to exist in our part of France unless a horse is shod(which only seems to happen to race and high level competition horses) the owners just get a rasp and do their own. There are some very odd looking hooves next door

Oooh, I'd be very interested to know what number of unsound horses you are seeing in your part of France - less or more or the same as in the UK?

 

[rifruffian]

For example....south spain......
I found vet care to be very good
insurance is not ever in my spectrum
yes hats etc generally not in use.....serious riding injuries do not appear to be prevalent
box rest......is that really the best way in many instances....?
agreed Spanish horses (generally) seem to spend more time confined to stable than UK
some areas of south Spain it is difficult to maintain a reliable and clean water supply sufficient to maintain horses
there is in spain a different attitude in the horse/handler relationship......to that frequently found in UK
you never find hay as we know it ....in south spain..........and of course grass is in short supply a large part of the year
traditional Spanish tack is different

 

[skewbaldmillie]

Oooh, I'd be very interested to know what number of unsound horses you are seeing in your part of France - less or more or the same as in the UK?

I have seen more unshod horses, especially those who hack, do dressage or are trekking ponies. They all seem to be unshod. Most of the big events have absolutely no unshod horses

 

[rifruffian]

I keep my horses unshod. In the arid conditions of south spain, if the horse is turned out most of the time, the feet grow extremely hard......to the extent that I resorted to a power tool for trimming

 

[rifruffian]

for example.....Guyana.......
large animal vets, good, usually trained in Cuba
hats, body protectors.......(wots that?)
insurance....you joking?
box rest.....most unusual
horses frequently confined to stable....yes....there is hardly any fencing anywhere to enclose a horse
basic hard feed.....rice seed with wheat bran and molasses
hay.....unheard of....but some grass here and there

 

[Rollin]

OP you can register a horse OC, that is origin known, which may for example be sired by a stallion not approved by a stud book or because of stud books intransigence when dealing with France.

I have a QA Cleveland Bay stallion approved to stand in France, however my breed society in the UK refused to make an arrangement with the National Stud, for issue of passports. Mare owners face the choice of registering their foals as Part Bred CB's for which there is NO stud book and then paying for a second vet call out and a second set of French registration, which of course they don't want to do as it is too costly.

OC horses can compete in ALL competitions in France as can pedigree horses. Horses with what we would call Pet ID passports cannot.

Serious riders, do not want horses with OC passports regardless of ability. The Dales Pony Society, Shagya breed society, AES and many others, have agreements in place with the French National Stud which helps the breed. CBHS do not.

 

[spacefaer]

ycbm - hunting in Ireland is very different to hunting in the UK and what a 3 yr old would do over there would be no more than a fast hack with some banks/drains to scramble over. I'm not saying it's right, but just to clarify the difference.

In the States, bandages are wraps, and when I was there, there was a fashion in SJ for enormously long tails, unplaited and unpulled, with a million tiny mane plaits - looked odd to English eyes.

In Italy, there is very little turnout, and very few horses are kept at private homes - they tend to be at equestrian centres, with schools. Where I was in Northern Italy, there was very little hacking/leisure riding - most were ridden in arenas, and all finished by 9/10 in the morning because of the heat. The harvest was over by May and there is no grass to speak of. So far as I understood, there is no unaffiliated competition - both horse and rider have to be registered. Alfalfa hay was the norm, with shavings for bedding, and the yard I saw fed straight black oats. They said it was very difficult and extremely expensive to get compound feeds, as they mostly had to be imported.

 

[ycbm]

This is all really interesting. How different even countries close to us can be.

Where those of you are saying there is no hay, what is fed instead? I was at a yard in Switzerland where there was no hay for months and they fed boiled linseed four times a day. Then they got hay again and just started feeding it as if it hadn't stopped, and half the yard went down with colic

 

[sunnyone]

In my part of France:
Nearly all horses are unshod, even when competing as a huge quantity of sand is laid on the grass show rings to allow them to compete.

All competitions stop for lunch. Horses may be tied to their trailers during this time, or tied overhead,military line style or even have a mini paddock created for them.
Attending a competition as a spectator is normally free. Sadly few people bother to go e.g. the 3 day local show only attracts about 5000 people in total including competitors and their supporters. Some classes have 125 entries.

It is rare for riding school horses to do more than a couple of days work a week.
A horse which is not kept at home will probably not be visited more than once maybe twice a week by its owners.
Straights are impossible to find.
Draught horses are very popular, and driving is a common activity.
We do have a specialist horse vet who is very knowledgeable. She does other animals too. Her boss does not do horses. They have a crush outside the premises for anybody bringing their horse to her.

 

[Shady]

Very interesting thread, in my bit of France i have never seen anybody in Hi Viz or a hat, there is only 1 mobile horse vet for approx 100km, he is amazing and very knackered all the time! he doesn't have a clinic and travels with a portable xray machine and as much stuff as he can cram in his van + his dog!!
Riding stables leave a lot to be desired and i found myself shocked by the amount of ponies shoved in a paddock and the quality of their surroundings, i could smell the thrush from 10 foot away
i never see many rugs either, they are expensive here and the French seem to prefer a more natural approach, i have no problem with this except they all look bloody miserable!!!
Saddle fitters are rarer than hens teeth and people look at me as if i am mad when i mention them, i think in a less rural area this would be different tho and perhaps there are mobile ones here that don't advertise and there is a secret code to find them that i'm not privvy to!
I had a few lessons in a school once and i found it very confusing , the instructor kept saying ' palms to the sky ' over and over when turning and i got a bit stressed !!!

 

[MargotC]

Some experiences of rural parts of Norway, and more on the leisure riding side of things.

Most horses get herd turnout all year around in any weather. Yards can be few and far between which means travelling quite a distance to where your horses are kept is common. Part livery is also common as a result. Outdoor stabling is barely seen and the American style barn is more common. Few private yards have outdoor riding arenas and even fewer have indoor ones. There's typically fairly easy access to quiet riding routes and forests although the roads you might need to ride on to get there become more and more dangerous. The last couple years I had horses there we lost most of our quiet local lanes as they put down asphalt to improve the roads for cars.

Clipping isn't common unless you compete. Rugging tends to be either/or with owners going all the way or not at all (and the horses do manage just fine even in winter but you get some very impressive coats). Feeding tends to be kept basic unless you compete or belong to a fancy, busy yard.

There is, sadly, an oversupply of trot racing rejects (both Standardbreds and the cold blooded trotter) which means you find a lot of those as riding horses (even in riding schools) and they generally do fine. It does however mirror the cob situation in the UK a little: there's no fly grazing or massive herds but these horses are sold for meat money, often as projects, and tend to end up in less than capable hands as they are so easy to find.

We do have capable equine vets and farriers and other specialists but you might have to travel a distance for it (or they to you which tends to be done in groups and you have to put your name on a list for when they'll be in the area). Quality of farriers averages much like in the UK and they are typically madly expensive and impossible to get a hold of when you need them.

What riding schools there are tend to have nice horses but the prices are steep and exclude a lot of people. Following on from the aforementioned oversupply of racing rejects this means a lot of first time owners go down that route instead with varying degrees of success.

My general impression is that animal welfare tends to be good but that the country as a whole is a lot less horsey than the UK (we lack hunting traditions, for instance), and you have a bit of a divide between the professional owners and some of the rest much of which I put down to lack of information and education.

 

[fattylumpkin]

Some differences I noticed here in Sweden. First the GOOD:

-The law states that because horses were on the road before cars, they must always have right of way! They're also not liable for damage caused by being horses - so the only insurance you need is health insurance and possibly a form of life insurance for yourself.

-They ride in ANY weather. And the weather can get pretty appalling way up here in the north. Two meters of snowfall in one day and roads like an ice rink? There's snow soles and ice studs for that, just wrap up warm!

-Living out is common and some form of turnout is required by law for a minimum number of hours per day.

-Horses are much cheaper to keep in some ways and costs can be very low depending on your choice of farrier and insurance plan. Nice spaces at well equipped riding schools can be had for as little as £250 a month, including hay and water. A reeeeally nice place with all mod cons like the national academic riding school in Uppsala charges £500 a month.

And now the BAD:

-The trav/trotting sport creates a lot of wastage as MargotC mentioned, and these horses are passed around like nobody's business and nobody here seems to find it odd. They're started as one year olds and if they haven't made it by the age of 4-5 they're effectively dumped by the industry into the hands of whoever wants to buy them. My hippo is one such horse and was left to stand in a field for 4 years with very little contact growing enormously fat, and she'll likely never be a 'normal' riding horse because her trotting training has ingrained certain behaviors which are proving indelible.

-The low cost of keeping horses means that you get an abundance of 'collectors' who acquire ten or more horses, none of whom are ridden or shod.

-It's legal to do your own farrier work on your own horses and no education is required. It's common for people to take a weekend course and then trim hooves themselves, though I wouldn't say the majority do this. Seems to be more of a countryside thing.

-If the law here forbids someone to own horses due to being convicted of criminal neglect or animal abuse, they can go through a loophole and simply write someone else's name on the owner papers for the animal and go on caring (or abusing) horses to their hearts content. Out in the countryside very little abuse gets reported because the communities are very small and everyone tends to know each other.

 

[ycbm]

WOW. A legal requirement to turn horses out on Sweden. I quite like that idea.

I had no idea about the trotter surplus in Scandinavia.Just like our flat racers.

I think you also have right to roam - to ride on any farmland? To some extent I think Scotland also have this?

 

[laura_nash]

The main difference I've noticed here (Mayo, west Ireland) is that if you say "I have horses" they say "do you breed, hunt or SJ?". I've been here over a year and only once seen one other rider out for a hack (probably another UK blow-in!). Unsurprisingly this also means that shops, vets etc tend to focus either on breeding or competing, not much around for leisure riders (I have to import my fast fibre from NI).

Horses seem to be either out 24/7 un-rugged, or stabled pretty much full time, clipped and rugged up. The only turnout rugs I've seen are on the neighbours very elderly donkey.

 

[jirist]

I am french, and now live in the UK with my horse since 2 years (and I own him since 14 years).
The differences I noticed between the 2 countries are :

- In France, for hacking we do not wear usually Hi-viz (only sometimes when we go in the forest during hunting period). Drivers are as well, more carefully regarding horses on the road, than in the UK.
- In France, there are good equine vets, but they do as well other pets usually if not in a big city.
- In France, there is nearly everywhere indoor arenas!!! Funny, as the weather is better over there ...
- In France, people do not over-rug in any circumstances, just to keep the horse clean! You definitely would not see a flyrug on a horse at 30 degrees.
- In France, arenas are made of light sand (there is not the kind of dark textile used here because of the wet).

- In the UK, it is VERY difficult to find a good farrier available, and able to study properly hooves issues to fix it (I am still struggling for that, and miss my french farrier).
- In the UK, due to the crappy weather, it is not common to have a good turnout (In France, my horse used to live outside 24/7 and to have good facilities anyway). Here people are thinking a lot about not damaging their field.
- In the UK, people do po-picking a lot more!! In France, it is more common to use the tractor doing its job.

And maybe a lot of other things I forgot

 

[pootler]

In Denmark:

If your horse is on full livery it is quite normal to have to bring in all the horses off the field at the yard one weekend day a month in turn.

The majority of farriers cold shoe, it is unusual to find one that hot shoes.

If you event, only competitors at BE80 equivalent can do their dressage test in rising trot, at BE90 onwards it is in sitting trot. You have to ride in sitting trot from the lowest level in affiliated pure dressage classes.

If your horse has an abscess, you would tub his foot with warm water and soap flakes (I found that strange for some reason!).

You regularly meet Icelandic ponies out hacking, which tends to freak out normal horses….

Hunts are regularly held here, these consists of 3 or 4 groups of 8-10 horses who follow a ridden 'huntmaster' (not hounds) over approximately 6-8 fences in an orderly fashion. They then all take a breather before heading off for the next set of fences. This is all done at a fairly sensible pace, you can even take your horse for an introductory wander around the course the evening before to introduce them to the fences.

Everyone wears hunting pink from young girls to elderly men.

Yard owners tend to use worm counts rather than routinely worm horses.

Vets are good here, there is a well equipped specialist practice locally.

Lots of indoor schools of very good quality, although I find the weather very similar to that in the UK

 

[ycbm]

I LOVE your version of hunting! Thinking of moving to Denmark now



Wake up Oz and NZ, we're waiting for you

 

[Orangehorse]

What is hunting like in Germany? Anyone know?

 

[Equi]

Our horses graze more and people go mad if they don't have full time grazing. Many other countries do t have this.

One thing I did notice was a client from Spain had "competed top dressage on Spanish stallions" but didn't know how to get on, do her stirrups, put on a hat, hold the reins correctly and thought the 14hh cob was the fastest horse she had ever been on. (didn't know how to put feet in stirrups to pull up, she usually stepped over the horse and had her feet put in the stirrups for her)

 

[Allie374]

We have literally just moved to france, and tonight i am sitting in front of my fire, for the very first night in a semi renovated gite.

My ponies are settled in their 300 year old stable, and i have met a french lady up the road who runs a riding school. It,s closed now until april. I already have a farrier, and an excellent supply of hay and straw.

No mud so far, but the weather in creuse is unique... mucking out in a cozzie 3 weeks ago. The riding is simply amazing, this place is made for horses ! If you have the chance, get out here for a holiday.

I have a mini video blog going of what we are all up to.....allie hanson, link may work


http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLJN9-Ktnlr2i6Wv7kAxnaDSnkunpj9TQ2

 

[Mari]

Where is your mini video blog? My husband (non horsey) is desperate for us to retire to France but I'm not keen. I have 2 horses + a loan horse. He speaks fluent French I don't he doesn't want to live in an anglicised area as he wants to embrace all things French. I'm prepared to find out more but don't know anyone who can tell me more.

 

[Enfys]

I LOVE your version of hunting! Thinking of moving to Denmark now



Wake up Oz and NZ, we're waiting for you

Canada?

"I've noticed that we've recently had a lot of people joining the forum from outside the UK,"
I have lived in Canada for the majority of time I have been on HHO (11 years I think now)


" we seem to be very lucky in the UK to have ready access to vets who specialise in horses, with most of us registered with horse-only vets"
I had great horse vets in Wales (Dyffryn Tywi) but have been fortunate enough to have two utterly fantastic equine vets here.


"other countries don't seem to be able to insure like we can"
I never bothered with insurance in the UK other than public liability, I had too many horses coming and going to go through the palaver of changing details all the time. Here it doesn't seem to be worth insuring unless the horse is worth serious dosh, to compete or even ride with clubs you generally have to provide proof of personal liability insurance.


"our vets use box rest a lot more than overseas vets."
Depends on the circumstances I guess, my Vets prefer turnout in small pens rather than complete incarceration, so do I.


"we use hats a lot more and body protectors for ordinary riding are practically non existent"
Personal preference, I know many people who choose to wear hats and bps, regardless of whether they ride English or Western, under 16's must wear a helmet by law (we don't call them hats) I choose to wear a helmet, I have never worn a bp in my life.


"we have a bigger emphasis on turnout than lots of European countries."
I can't comment on Europe, but here a lot of horses live out in extreme conditions very well. Again it is a personal thing, many horses also live in heated barns that join straight into heated arenas and never go out in winter at all. Some are stalled in barns at night, and out by day, just like the UK.

Box stall = stable.
Standing stall = stall.
In NA smaller stables are quite normal, 12' x 12' are described as 'large and airy' and quite acceptable for 18h draft horses.
... and a headstall is a western bridle
a halter is a headcollar,
and a saddlepad is a numnah.

Turnout - now that's a different kettle of fish, here it is not unusual, or unacceptable, for horses to live in 1/2 acre lots year round, and not just one horse, maybe half a dozen, forget the BHS 1.5 acres for the first horse, 1 acre thereafter. Forage is fed year round - also normal. Grass is far more valuable being grown for hay than being wasted by letting horses (which are classed as agricultural livestock by the way) stomp on it.

"when I lived on the continent, ponies were rare and children learned on horses and were taught proper dressage right from the start"
Not sure about the dressage but yes, kids often learn to ride on horses rather than ponies.

" people in the Republic of Ireland will happily hunt a three year old where most people in the UK would throw up their hands in horror at a three year old doing even the lightest of days out with hounds."
North America, breaking 2 year olds is normal, say no more.

"The US call rugs blankets"
Mere terminology, they are exactly the same thing, we get the same makes as you do in the UK
ps - Rugs are what we put on the floor

Feet and Farriers. Hah! In Canada, you do not have to be certified to shoe a horse, or set up as a horse-shoer. In fact, finding a certified farrier is quite difficult. Finding a so-called barefoot farrier is far easier, and often to be avoided as they will have simply been to the US to do a two week course. A huge majority of horses are unshod, and have never been shod.

Horse management in North America is so different to the UK, it was a huge learning curve, I have learned to keep my mind open and my mouth shut.
Some things I have adopted.
Some things that I completely disapproved of (in my arrogant, blinkered, British, BHS way - believe me, there ARE many ways to get the same result, the BHS is not the ONLY way - fact, shocking as it may seem) actually are totally logical, and not at all cruel, or bad .
Some things I will not ever approve of, or do, but many things make complete sense and work very well.

We hunt here too, many UK hunt staff come to North America, we hunt fox and coyote on horseback, anything else is on foot, with, or without hounds or dogs. Hunt Clubs often do not have their own hounds but can hire a Huntsman and hounds

 

[ycbm]

Brilliant enfys, thanks for that long post. I'm finding this fascinating, I hope others are too.

Where have we not heard from yet? Asia, Far East, Middle East, Antipodes, South America, USA. Hoping some of you are online soon.

Big surprises for me on just how many areas have very large numbers of working unshod horses. They must wonder what British Barefoot people are on about

I envy all the people with right to roam.

Still wondering what places with no hay feed instead?

 

[ycbm]

I did find wormers identical to British ones, same manufacturer, which cost $11 in the US and £18 in Britain well over twice as much!

 

[MDB]

For example....south spain......
I found vet care to be very good
insurance is not ever in my spectrum
yes hats etc generally not in use.....serious riding injuries do not appear to be prevalent
box rest......is that really the best way in many instances....?
agreed Spanish horses (generally) seem to spend more time confined to stable than UK
some areas of south Spain it is difficult to maintain a reliable and clean water supply sufficient to maintain horses
there is in spain a different attitude in the horse/handler relationship......to that frequently found in UK
you never find hay as we know it ....in south spain..........and of course grass is in short supply a large part of the year
traditional Spanish tack is different

I am in north west Spain...

I have found vet care to be very good. I have equine only vets, both of whom have worked in the UK. Call out fee and about one hour of treatment around £50 total.

I have liability insurance only.

Hats and body protectors are rarely used.

Never seen any horse here on box rest.

Horses in my area are rarely stabled. Most are out roaming acres and acres 24-7-365.

Everybody here has bore holes and wells with excellent water quality.

Horse - owner or rider relationship is very different. Horses are commodities. Often handled and ridden very harshly. My neighbours think I am nuts for the way I treat my animals.

I can get my hands on good quality hay and green grass for 10-11 months of the year.

I don't know anybody else whose horses are ridden barefoot, and I get looked at like I have three eyes for hacking bitless.

I don't compete or show so cannot comment.

 

[MDB]

Very interesting thread, in my bit of France i have never seen anybody in Hi Viz or a hat, there is only 1 mobile horse vet for approx 100km, he is amazing and very knackered all the time! he doesn't have a clinic and travels with a portable xray machine and as much stuff as he can cram in his van + his dog!!
Riding stables leave a lot to be desired and i found myself shocked by the amount of ponies shoved in a paddock and the quality of their surroundings, i could smell the thrush from 10 foot away
i never see many rugs either, they are expensive here and the French seem to prefer a more natural approach, i have no problem with this except they all look bloody miserable!!!
Saddle fitters are rarer than hens teeth and people look at me as if i am mad when i mention them, i think in a less rural area this would be different tho and perhaps there are mobile ones here that don't advertise and there is a secret code to find them that i'm not privvy to!
I had a few lessons in a school once and i found it very confusing , the instructor kept saying ' palms to the sky ' over and over when turning and i got a bit stressed !!!

Your description of your vet with his portable X-ray, dog and the kitchen sink crammed into his car sounds identical to mine!!!

We also have no saddle fitters, and the only equestrian shop for hundreds of km, the owners don't ride, so have zero advice on the products.

 

[Booboos]

I'm in France.

As far as I understand it anyone can compete at Club level, you need a Galop 7 to compete Amateur and a Galop 9 to compete Pro. You can either take the exams or get your RC instructor to certify you as mine did. The RC handles your license for which you need a medical certificate each year.

Any horse can compete Club, only pedigree horses can compete Amateur and Pro.

There are indoor schools everywhere as it is easy to get planning permission for them and, if you are a business, government grants to build them. In the south at least outdoor arenas have no drainage but they srape off the topsoil, put down a blinding layer and the chuck some sand. When it rains they flood but it doesn't rain that often. Rubber is effectively prohibited as a surface and no one has heard of fiber.

There are no physios, saddle fitters are few and far between and I have a British trimmer. Farriers vary in quality but have no clue how to balance unshod feet. Specialist vets are hard to fine and clinics are very few and far away.

Livery is cheaper here but boxes are often only mucked out once a week and turn out is very limited.

 

[Leo Walker]

Brilliant enfys, thanks for that long post. I'm finding this fascinating, I hope others are too.

I am!