different stages of development in young horses, but what is normal?

[Charla]

Myself and my friend bought a three year old each from the same breeder. Very similar breeding, same sires and even the dam lines have some of the same lines. Both have had the same upbringing, very natural, roaming hundreds of acres.
My friends gelding is very strong looking, nice big strong neck, great hind quarters, plenty of weight on him, very sure footed and sturdy. Looks more like a 5 year old! He’s 15.2 and very level.
Mine however, has an upside down neck, is ribby, has no muscle over his hind quarters. He is wobbly and looks extremely weak in his movement. He is bum high at the moment and is currently 15.1. He is longer in the back and neck than my friends.
Would this cause you concern? The difference in development between both?
They have only been home a week. I’ve just managed to have a really good look at both and compare. Is mine just behind with development, growth spurt? Or would you be concerned there is more to it?
I’m panicking as I have had endless bad luck with horses over the recent years and look in to everything now.

 

[AmyMay]

Define ’wobbly’

 

[ycbm]

I think I would probably have a set of neuro tests run on him (you can do them yourself) and possibly neck x rays if there is any doubt.

I have had full brothers who were very different in height and build, but not different in development to the extent that you are describing.

.

 

[Charla]

No balance in horse box around corners when he was collected. Went down on his knees coming down horse box ramp. Started off standing a bit splayed, but has stopped this now. Trot looks a bit all over the place compared to the other ones, however mine is bigger moving. They are not far off feral so obviously rather nervous and a complete change of environment and life. My friends is far more confident than mine (he was herd leader)

 

[Charla]

Ycbm which would you suggest trying?
he backs up well. Now picks up front feet well and doesn’t wobble with these. Turns on a tight circle well now he understands what I’m asking...

 

[maya2008]

Was yours picked on and bullied off the hay? So is he weak from lack of food?

I have two from the same breeder. From a distance, you almost can’t tell them apart. Both arrived in the same condition weight wise also.

 

[Charla]

They were roaming 150 acres so didn’t have hay yet, just grass. Mine was definitely bottom of the herd. But no hay.

 

[HashRouge]

There may be no sinister reason behind it, but it may also be worth getting the vet to have a look at him. I'd also worm him.

My old YO rescued two 18 month old Welsh cobs from a sale about 10 years ago, they were in very bad condition when she got them. One of them picked up very quickly and blossomed into a beautiful young horse very quickly. The other took much longer to develop and she did think there might be something wrong with him. But by 5 he was also a lovely looking, strong, healthy youngster. I think he was just slower to develop.

 

[Littlebear]

My youngster is turned out with a group of 6m to 3.5 yr olds, they are pretty much all related, they grow at vastly different rates and have exactly the same lifestyle. Even for example my horses full sister, only a year ish apart and they are 2 different horses, mine is much bigger and stronger looking even though the sister is far superior fitness wise, you would not think they are the exact same breed, both in their teens now and have never really changed.
3 is a weird age, some look like finished article and some look like pre pubescent teens waiting for their bodies to fill out.
Maybe arrange a blood test to make sure nothing is amiss if you are worried.
Also were they cut at the same exact time?

 

[ycbm]

Ycbm which would you suggest trying?
he backs up well. Now picks up front feet well and doesn’t wobble with these. Turns on a tight circle well now he understands what I’m asking...

The ones I do are:

Back up in a straight line in diagonal pairs. Same with head held up in the air.

Very tight (on the spot) circle in both directions. Inside hind foot to cross over in front of the outside leg.

Pick up a hind foot and put it down on top of the other one. Horse should remove it immediately.

Walk downhill with head held up in the air.

Pull tail to one side while standing and walking. Horse should brace, not be pulled over.

If he passes all those, he's probably just a weak baby.

.

 

[Melody Grey]

I wouldn't worry about it being anything too drastic yet, but I would definitely worm count yours -a previous worm burden could also explain the difference in presentation.

 

[tallyho!]

It may be that this horse has nothing more sinister than some growing to do but I've been to two very unrelated lectures in the past couple of years that brought this up and your post vaguely reminded me...

https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

 

[Charla]

Following on from this, an update.
I had a vet out to check him for my concerns. He did a couple of tests, laughed and told me to stop worrying, he is a weak youngster.
So forward to now, he does seem better, but I still have concerns in the back of my mind....especially yesterday after he spooked and fell over completely whilst being led out to the field, taking the skin off his knees and hind legs. He turns normally on a tight circle, crossing over ok. He backs up ok. However, he squares off his front toes, he still trips here and there and comes across ‘clumsy.’ He’s out with a herd of geldings, but I rarely ever see him cantering around, certainly not at speed! He’s not a naturally forwards horse and I can’t work out if that is due to weakness or a more sinister issue. In canter on the lunge, he changes his hind leg regularly. He has no topline, but I am starting to see muscle development in his hind and shoulder.
I am considering getting a second opinion from a different vet once they can come back out. Is there anything else I should be looking for?

 

[milliepops]

what tests did the vet do? I think given your concerns I would seek a second opinion tbh even if just for peace of mind.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Yes, I'd seek a second opinion, especially for peace of mind as mentioned.

Is EPM a thing where you are? If so, this would be on my list of things to check for based off of what sounds to be muscle atrophy and lack of coordination.

But a good vet can guide you through this. Best of luck.

Edit: I think pulling blood would be easy enough too. Mineral imbalances cause some odd things in a horses body and the test is simple. Even if two horses have the same diets, it isn't entirely impossible that one may suffer from a deficiency while the other is fine.

 

[Identityincrisis]

I still think a lot of this could still be put down to young, unbalanced horse, cantering on the lunge shouldn't be viewed as easy for a young horse. But i agree with Milliepops, seek a second opinion to ease your mind

 

[Hormonal Filly]

fell over completely whilst being led out to the field, taking the skin off his knees and hind legs.

That doesn't sound normal to me?

 

[TheMule]

I would consider asking someone like Rob Jackson or Tom Beech to look at him- they are osteopathic vets so take a very holistic view of the horse and might shed some light on it that a 'normal' vet wouldn’t have such a view on

 

[CanteringCarrot]

That doesn't sound normal to me?

This is what made me think there could be something else aside from being young and awkward. However, he could be young and awkward. It isn't totally out of the realm of possibilities. I've had a relatively "dopey" horse that was healthy, but just didn't consider where his feet were at all times. He did get better with age, but he was puzzling at times!

I didn't mean to come off as alarmist in my previous post when I mentioned EPM and blood testing, it's just something I would personally consider given my past experiences (which shape my view).

 

[Charla]

what tests did the vet do? I think given your concerns I would seek a second opinion tbh even if just for peace of mind.

He checked him for general lameness/gait abnormality. Backed him up. Turned him on a tight circle each rein. Asked him to step up on to a block. Picked all his legs up. He said that was enough for him to think I am being over the top.

 

[Charla]

I would consider asking someone like Rob Jackson or Tom Beech to look at him- they are osteopathic vets so take a very holistic view of the horse and might shed some light on it that a 'normal' vet wouldn’t have such a view on

I shall look them up. Where are they based?

 

[Charla]

That doesn't sound normal to me?

this is what really set my alarms bells ringing. The rest I felt I would just monitor and see how he goes, better or worse. Unfortunately, I wasn’t there to witness his fall as he is on full livery. I was told he spooked dramatically with a second horse being led by the same person, but then fell completely to the floor, whereas the other horse just carried on as normal after...

 

[Charla]

Yes, I'd seek a second opinion, especially for peace of mind as mentioned.

Is EPM a thing where you are? If so, this would be on my list of things to check for based off of what sounds to be muscle atrophy and lack of coordination.

But a good vet can guide you through this. Best of luck.

Edit: I think pulling blood would be easy enough too. Mineral imbalances cause some odd things in a horses body and the test is simple. Even if two horses have the same diets, it isn't entirely impossible that one may suffer from a deficiency while the other is fine.

thank you. It is something I shall bring up with the vet

 

[Hormonal Filly]

@CanteringCarrot When mine was 3yr he was flighty and canter was unbalanced due to being young but never once witnessed him falling over. He was a typical flighty Welsh too, sometimes he should of fallen over but saved himself.
Have you tried one foot on top of the other, and see how quick he moved it? I'm sure thats a test. Someone may correct me, but I would of thought if it was wobblers he would get worse as he gets older..

 

[TheMule]

I shall look them up. Where are they based?

Both of them travel around the UK. I've used Rob a few times and was pleased. He usually tells me he doesn’t need to see them again once he has seen them, but I'm a pedantic niggle picker so back I go if something doesn’t feel quite right!

 

[ihatework]

He checked him for general lameness/gait abnormality. Backed him up. Turned him on a tight circle each rein. Asked him to step up on to a block. Picked all his legs up. He said that was enough for him to think I am being over the top.

It’s difficult to know isn’t it?
I think as an initial assessment then what has been done is adequate. Now the vet could easily be wrong, but to ascertain that you would need to embark on an expensive journey and, quite rightly IMO, an initial conservative approach is best.

It’s not quite clear how old the horse currently is. You purchased at 3 but was the horse 3 when you posted and now rising 4? Is the horse under saddle yet?

Id be concerned with what you describe too and assuming the horse is 4 I’d probably during lockdown concentrate in in-hand and strengthening exercises and if heading in the right direction do some very basic stuff under saddle. Still worried in 3 months or so, then yes I’d get a second opinion. I’d stop immediately if starting to show any obvious lameness or classic neuro symptoms

 

[milliepops]

^^good pragmatic approach imo

 

[Hormonal Filly]

Id be concerned with what you describe too and assuming the horse is 4 I’d probably during lockdown concentrate in in-hand and strengthening exercises and if heading in the right direction do some very basic stuff under saddle. Still worried in 3 months or so, then yes I’d get a second opinion. I’d stop immediately if starting to show any obvious lameness or classic neuro symptoms

Very good way to go about it.

 

[Charla]

It’s difficult to know isn’t it?
I think as an initial assessment then what has been done is adequate. Now the vet could easily be wrong, but to ascertain that you would need to embark on an expensive journey and, quite rightly IMO, an initial conservative approach is best.

It’s not quite clear how old the horse currently is. You purchased at 3 but was the horse 3 when you posted and now rising 4? Is the horse under saddle yet?

Id be concerned with what you describe too and assuming the horse is 4 I’d probably during lockdown concentrate in in-hand and strengthening exercises and if heading in the right direction do some very basic stuff under saddle. Still worried in 3 months or so, then yes I’d get a second opinion. I’d stop immediately if starting to show any obvious lameness or classic neuro symptoms

yes horse is now rising 4, June is his birthday. He is now under saddle for gentle hacking. He has a nice forward walk, the trot is very backwards and has no power Whatsoever. Again, a weak baby thing? He does regular in hand stuff, poles, long reining, occasional short lunge session, and then hacking. The worst he has done is trip under saddle. Doesn’t feel wobbly, just extremely weak and not forwards in the trot.

 

[ihatework]

yes horse is now rising 4, June is his birthday. He is now under saddle for gentle hacking. He has a nice forward walk, the trot is very backwards and has no power Whatsoever. Again, a weak baby thing? He does regular in hand stuff, poles, long reining, occasional short lunge session, and then hacking. The worst he has done is trip under saddle. Doesn’t feel wobbly, just extremely weak and not forwards in the trot.

Happy in his demeanour under saddle? Have you got any photos of him stood up and any video under saddle?

When normal service resumes then one of the vets TheMule suggests might be a good way forwards because unless a vet can assess him as lame then all you can really do is embark on ££££ in diagnostics with no guarantee of finding what you are looking for.