Difficult situation on yard- Advice anyone?

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Pony_Lou

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:)Hi Everyone, I am new to the H&H forum but am looking for some advice, basically I run a small part livery yard with my family, we are very lucky with the liveries we have, all the horses are wonderful and the people are great too. Everything has been fine, except for one pony (who is great to handle in the stable). His behaviour in the paddock (with our own horses and one other livery) as the other 3 liveries are in a adjoining paddock, is very playful (could be seen as bullish). Over recent weeks we have been observing his behaviour with the horses (in his own paddock and across the fence). The pony tends to gallop around a lot, rear at/box the other horses causing cuts, scrapes, broken rails, causing damage to the other liveries in the next paddock and has reared over the fence, broke it and jumped over (although whilst in there just gallops around) pawing at gates (getting hooves stuck) and pulling rails off the fence, making it unsafe for all horses. We told the owners all of this and to be fair to them they were very quick to react and put him on some calmer prescribed by the vet. In the meantime things went from bad to worse and my youngster has sustained numerous cuts and a 2 inch scar on his chin. We have tried our best to let the pony stay in his paddock but cant risk anymore injuries. We advised the owner that he would have to stay stabled and turned out ONLY in the rest paddock on his own for the time being(until the calmer showed signs of working). He was still galloping around, pawing gates, fences, trying to get over the fence. So we said he needs to be supervised when out for his own safety. We dont feel that the owners seem to think that the behaviour is that bad. They are saying their pony wants to be friends with the other liveries and as he is young and highly strung we should expect and accept the galloping around. We were informed of v similar issues at their last yard without having mentioned this to anyone. We don’t feel that our yard is really suited to the pony and have advised them of this, we have enough land but not enough for this type of behaviour and sectioning of more paddocks. We have given our advice to them about him maybe needing more schooling etc (could be a boredom thing as he is only 5). The owner then told us that as the yard managers we have an obligation to help them with the pony, but i dont feel that is the case, i fully understand we have a duty of care for their pony as well as the others on the yard, and as it is their pony it is their problem to resolve with our assistance as caring professional people (which we are continuing to do) but it’s now causing an atmosphere, with comments about bedding costs as the pony is in etc. They said that they had spoken with a behaviourist and they suggest putting him in the paddock with the other liveries to bond. Naturally given the previous behaviour we aren’t happy to do this, we dont want to be causing injury/upset to any other liveries and they had already been told he was not to be turned back out with ours (we drove past and he was out with the others). We had a chat with them and agreed that they have a set amount of time to sort him out otherwise he just isn’t right for our small very quiet yard, but in the last couple of days the pony has been v good in the paddock on his own but just know that as soon as he goes back in with the others it will all start again and unfortunately we dont have the facilities for him to be on his own permanently. Anyway, has anyone else had to deal with anything similar to this or what do you think we should do, if we can do anymore? Have we been fair enough? Other yard owners have said they would have given their notice… but we want to help the pony as well (as there is clearly something wrong and the owners are genuinely really nice)… Sorry for the long essay!!!! Any responses would be really appreciated! Thank you
 
Is this your yard? if so it is up to you who is there and who is not, you have no duty of care to help them.

If you don't want the pony there anymore ..... give them notice to leave.

If you want them to stay I would think the pony needs to be out as much as possible, but the owners need to know that if he breaks or damages anything, they need to pay for it (inc vets bills!)
 
Agree with above. If it was on my yard then I would give them their notice because you can't risk injury to other client's horses. To me when you run a yard you have to think of all the horses welfare and something that escapes and damages your yard isn't going to worth it??

I understand that you want to help it but maybe he needs to go to a yard with more land or facilities. How long before he damages himself or one of the other horses?
 
sounds like he is seeking a bond, but going about it the wrong way.

You do not have duty to help them resolve his problem, quite frankly he would be out on his ear if it was at my yard, do you want to lose one of your horses when this little bugger kicks a cannon or gets your horse inpailed on a broken fence rail?

I had a livery like him at my yard, the owners had previously had an old horse that was no problem, he sadly died and was replaced by a 3 year old that the owner lost her confidence with, he got bored and started instigated trouble with mine, jumping on my old boy and injuring his shoulder, when he was separated he ruined my fields with his fence line walking, the only solution was find somewhere else, which she did. If these owners are ignoring your requests to keep him out of your field then move them out.
 
Speaking as a livery, if my horse was being exposed to the risk of injury from a horse like this, and my YO didnt ask them to leave, I would leave.

You have no duty of care to help someone with a problem horse, he is their horse, it is their problem - your only duty of care is to provide the things that most livery owners provide and to stick to your contract - and maybe get the vet out if pony hurts himself and they are not around - I would be asking them to leave if I was you, and I know its not nice and you dont want to make their lives anymore difficult but stop and think about your other liveries and your own horses - you owe it to them to do something and not wait until one of the other horses are seriously injured before you do.

Good luck :)
 
Thank you so much for all of your replies! V helpful.
Yes it is our yard, we have our older horse (20) and our young dressage horse (4) and 4 other liveries. He has been tested and his hormone levels seem normal so has been put on Bromide and another calmer. He has seemed better on his own in the last couple of days but it is almost like waiting for an explosion to go off (we can't rest) and dont want to upset the others at the sake of this one. When we said we dont think he is suited to our yard, they put up a bit of a fight and said they think we can all work together and sort it out and they didnt want to leave (probably because they know they would have the same problem elsewhere). I totally agree that if he stays he needs to be out (i much prefer horses to be out) but i dont honestly think he can be trusted (and he can't be watched all day long) so i still dont think it is the right place for them. Especially now as its not just the pony that has attitude... i think we need to just cut our emotional ties and think about our business and our own horses and other liveries :)
 
What is the pony fed ? is it exercised regularly ? There's no point giving it calmer if they're feeding it something heating

If you don't want them there just give them a months notice or however long is in their contract, IMO you don't have any ogligation to help them, its their pony
 
It is fed Happy Hoof (owners won't change), he is exercised, but not schooled regularly (as in weekly lessons,they do have them but nothing constant) but hacked out and schooled lightly at the yard. The yard is so peaceful, everyone gets along, it's a haven but it's just this is causing an atmosphere now which is something we really don't want especially as our liveries all work long hours and come to the yard for relaxation and to enjoy carefree time with thier buds! Think it is time for them to go (even if he does behave in the next two weeks - time set to monitor behaviour) as when he goes back out with others it will start again :(
 
as a yard owner i have a few question do you have a contract which says breakages must be paid for??? we have had a solicitor make ours up if you want a copy so u can change it to suit you pm me


have you got a get out clause in your contract which says you reserve the right to terminate their contract.

I have gone through this recently with a few this is the damages one just did to mine so they were told to leave.

give them notice its not fair on you and the other horses unless you can isolate him away from others. and they had the audacity to say my husband will work out the cost and bill you ??????? its your pony on loan grrrrrrrrrr.

give them notice you dont need the hassle

one said yes my horse is 16 hh right turned out to b 16.3 clydesdale walked through my fencing and broke through the door


see the stable forced off the bricks and in the last stable bowed.
GIVE THEM NOTICE : why upset the others which could cause one of the nice ones to leave .





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yes we have contracts for all of our liveries, which state that breakages must be paid for and that either party gives one months notice should they wish to terminate the contract. I just feel bad as they are making us feel bad i suppose, by saying that it is our problem too as they are a customer... liveries ey!! We have lost all faith in them and the horse after this and really dont want to risk loosing the wonderful liveries we have. We have told them it is nothing personal, it is just the pony is causing this situation (we had hoped they would have been a bit more understanding). Thank you all so much for your replies, really great to know there is support/advice out there! :)
 
Dont feel bad

you have done nothing wrong they sign the forms when they come . Its their animal causing the problem the other liveries are not causing probs. I know how you feel i felt like that the first time i had an issue. now I say look its my yard i offer a good service you know what your getting when u arrive and agree to it by signing. You have enough to do runing the yard and maintaining it The pony obviously is not settling in to my yard thats apparent by the damages and such. So I am afraid this is 1 months notice
this is on the bottom of my contract



Notice of termination of livery is 1 month for either party where there is serious fall out between yard owner and client, the owner reserves the right to terminate this agreement with immediate effect, and they must remove the horse from the yard.

OWNERS MUST INSURE THEMSELVES AND THEIR HORSES FOR PUBLIC AND PERSONAL LIABILITY AND INSURE AND THEIR TACK, VEHICLES ETC. THE STABLES OFFER NO INSURANCE FOR RIDERS, THEIR HORSES, GUESTS OR FRIENDS
 
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Of cause they will try pass the buck, but you say u heard of similar from their last yard??

you know what they say about a bad apple in the cart.

with this last one i got rid of i couldnt even lock my gate at night as i knew when i walked down there he would start kicking the door. came down to it when one morning i walked down to feed it and the door was wide open and just the top bar keeping him in they tried calmer toys mirror u name it . I said i dont need this hassle to my husband he said give them notice. so i did peace at last
 
I would not want to share a field with this pony. And as a paying customer would leave your yard if you didn't address it.

Personally, unless you can turn the pony out separately - I would ask them to leave.
 
Yes that is very similar to the contract termination part in our contact too, We have heard bad things about the pony from thier last yard, but they are denying all of it (when we asked them why he was stabled alot there too) which they are going to do i suppose.
Luckily the pony is in a paddock with our own horses (not so lucky for us). The calmer he is on may solve the problem in the short term but they cannot come up with any long term plans and he cannot be in a paddock on his own at our yard forever (as we dont have the extra space). We have agreed two weeks to see how he gets on but in all honesty we cannot see him being sorted out within two weeks and its causing us lots of extra stress. And i agree, thinking about it from a different angle if i was a livery at a yard with a pony like that i would be onto the YO and if they didnt get rid i would leave myself.
 
We had a similar situation on my yard last year.

The nicest horse and a wonderful owner - but just a bit of bugger in the field. So unfortunately the owner was given notice. No hard feelings on either side, and the YO was very sorry to loose her as a customer (because she was fab).

But, you have to consider the wider picture unfortunately.
 
Thats the thing, the people that own him are lovely and absolutely adore him, look after him etc but it's just that the situation is causing unwanted bad feeling and whilst the pony is with us we can't see it getting any better. We are very understanding and have tried our best to accomodate the pony safely but it has to come to a point where enough is enough, it is a business after all and a place where the horses should be safe, happy and stress free.
 
Could you suggest they move him to a yard that offers schooling livery or something where the horse will be exercised/entertained, with individual or paired turnout? :)
 
sounds like they would be better off in a yard where the pony can have is own electric fenced off area, if you cannot accommodate this ( i cannot either) they have to find some where that can.
before i bought this place my mare was straight out into the gang, same day vet visit resulted in fractured splint bone. now I ALWAYS segregate the new horse for a week till it settles before adding to existing group..
 
How about putting a ring of electric fencing inside the post and rail, making sure it runs from the mains.
To me it sounds like he needs to in a paddock with a total bully of a horse to put him in his place.
I would also make sure he has some field toys to play with
 
I do also think that a yard where he can be exercised, schooled very regularly will be far more suited to him. I have suggested this but they are still adament that he just wants to be friends with the others and it's just because he is highly strung... The electric fence inside the main fence would be fine but it dosent stop the injuries to his fieldmates and unfortunately we don't have the space to section off a paddock just for him. We have a rest paddock (small paddock for a laminitic horse and any new ones that come to the yard) which is where he is currently (but still puts feet through the bars on the gates, rails etc). As much as we would like them to stay (the people) the pony needs a bigger yard possibly on full livery where they can still ride etc but he is being worked more. Or like you say put into a field with a complete bully and hope it sorts him out. Thank you for all your advice & ideas... :)
 
Having owned a horse who was a darling with people but a nightmare with other horses (believe me we tried) I have no sympathy with the owners. We always were honest with any yard, insisted on individual turnout (he was lovely over electric fencing but just liked his own space). He behaved like a rig running others down, kicking biting and being horribly agressive. It limited our choice of yards and was expensive but it was best for the horse and best for everyone else. If they have not been upfront and are not prepared to have him on his own then he should go elsewhere. I always said I refused to put my other horses in with him so why should anyone else risk theirs. Your livery is being unreasonable and you stand to loose good clients. Ask them to leave.
 
I have a small number of liveries, and like yours, it is a happy yard where everyone mucks in and helps each other, so it is essential that nothing/ no-one upsets this.
If I do have a problem, I have a policy which I stick to, which is if I spend most of my time thinking about it, and it seems as if there is NO way to resolve it then the problem has to go. It's quite hard, but the knock on effect if I do nothing is unfair on everybody including myself.
From what you say you have tried very hard to be fair and reasonable, and I think you have reached the end of the line.
Good luck.
 
Since the weekend the owner has been keeping a diary of his behaviour, which has turned into more of a diary of the comings and goings of the yard, which i'm not entirely happy about. But the pony is now on 3 calmers and yesterday kicked off again (but the owner said she thinks he wants to be friends with the others and it looked like a playful rear at the fence) thing is, we cannot risk the others getting injured by putting him in with any of the horses on the yard. They have also said that because he is young and very talented (not sure what that has got to do with anything) that it should be expected. We had given them two weeks to do something about him from last weekend, but in all honesty, he hasnt changed really (he can't stay on these particular calmers forever) and we cant risk putting him back out with the others to see if he will behave, so i think notice will be given later today (including the two weeks that we had agreed to give her) so i think we are being more than fair. I have suggested other yards that i think would be more suited to him so i am trying to help (not that i have to i know). All of your comments and advice have been very very helpful, at least i know i am not being a complete moo of a livery :)
 
so i think notice will be given later today
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I don't think you have any choice. And I agree you've been more than fair.

You are obviously a very caring person, and I hope they understand that you've really done all you can under the circumstances.
 
Ahh thanks AmyMay, i care about all of the horses on the yard as if they were our own (including this one :rolleyes:) and thats why i am trying to help them and him (as he needs to be happy and safe) somewhere that has plenty of land to section off for him. Will be sad to see them go, but we have to do whats right for us and the rest of the liveries. Mind made up! :) Phew ....
 
misst said:
Having owned a horse who was a darling with people but a nightmare with other horses (believe me we tried) I have no sympathy with the owners. We always were honest with any yard, insisted on individual turnout (he was lovely over electric fencing but just liked his own space). He behaved like a rig running others down, kicking biting and being horribly agressive. It limited our choice of yards and was expensive but it was best for the horse and best for everyone else. If they have not been upfront and are not prepared to have him on his own then he should go elsewhere. I always said I refused to put my other horses in with him so why should anyone else risk theirs. Your livery is being unreasonable and you stand to loose good clients. Ask them to leave.
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THis!!!

I have a horse who has to be turned out alone as when young he was a complete yobbo in the field and I wouldnt have wanted to turn anything out with him. If you have a horse like that you have to accept it. Basically, these people need to accept the pony is just going to have to be turned out alone and move somewhere that can accommodate that.
 
Hope that all goes well.

It amazes me how people will excuse their horse's behaviour.

We had a livery that was a bit of a nightmare, and ripped other horse's rugs (or their skin if they didn't have rugs on). The owner swore blind it was one of my horses, and even when we watched her horse do it right in front of us she insisted that it had been an accident and that the horse hadn't meant it. Eventually we seperated it from the others. It could see and touch the others over a fence, but couldn't bully them. That resulted in hysterics and waterworks from the owner (when we weren't around) and complaints that we were being mean to her horse. The livery left soon after, unfortunately not speaking to us. Nothing has ever had their rugs ripped since she left!

If my horse was behaving like that I would be mortified and trying my best to sort it, not excusing it for being young and well bred!
 
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