Digital Pulses - interesting chat with farrier

Christmas Crumpet

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I saw a local farrier at a Christmas party and we started chatting about taking horses's feet as you do. His daughter's pony had got laminitis due to frosty ground and that sort of started the conversation.

I told him about how my horse's feet had improved a lot since having his shoes off last summer for 10 weeks and that I was intending to do it again but for longer this summer. I said I had been quite worried about the pulses he had in his feet at times and the panic I had over laminitis. Farrier said quite bluntly that pulses occur due to any kind of inflammation or trauma to feet not necessarily laminitis and that my horse hadn't had his shoes off for years so obviously his feet were going to be a bit sore when his shoes came off coupled with the hard summer ground. He said you cannot rely entirely on pulses to diagnose laminitis because sometimes horses will have pulses for other reasons i.e. newly deshod, charging out on hard ground, sore from stones etc. He thought you should take a view and look at the whole picture not just the feet. He also said that when you take the shoes off, the hoof moves in an entirely different way and actually stretches and contracts a lot more so if the hoof isn't entirely healthy then to start with there will be inflammation.

I think this sounds like quite a practical approach - and it does make total sense that pulses are not necessarily present because the horse has laminitis. For whatever reason you bring the horse in off the grass onto a deep bed and then the pulses go down because its like standing on a pillow for them. It might not be the bringing off the grass that eases the pulses because chances are it might not be metabolic. Obviously a horse with no foot pain at all will not have pulses but there are a few reasons for a horse to have raised pulses not just laminitis.

Just thought I'd share that. I thoroughly enjoyed our chat!!
 

PorkChop

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Definitely, pulses can come up for a variety of reasons, obviously the aim is for them never to have them increase, but it certainly is not always laminitis.
 

Goldenstar

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If a horse does not have a digital pulses it's dead .
Digital pulses will be raise for lots of reasons including normal exercise it's healthy and normal .
The issue is we say digital pulse as short hand for saying raised digital pulse with no normal reason for it being raised .
 

Slightlyconfused

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If a horse does not have a digital pulses it's dead .
Digital pulses will be raise for lots of reasons including normal exercise it's healthy and normal .
The issue is we say digital pulse as short hand for saying raised digital pulse with no normal reason for it being raised .

This

Also I never check the pulse after I've just brought in. They are put in their stable for a bit then they are checked....if I need to check them....as exercise will also raise them
 

Christmas Crumpet

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If a horse does not have a digital pulses it's dead .
Digital pulses will be raise for lots of reasons including normal exercise it's healthy and normal .
The issue is we say digital pulse as short hand for saying raised digital pulse with no normal reason for it being raised .

Sorry - didn't think I needed to clarify that bit.
 

scats

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Yes, but as my farrier has always said- inflammation of the laminae is laminitis, regardless of whether it's been caused by grass, too much work on hard ground, frost, being newly shod or bad shoeing etc. Strong digital pulses are a sign of some sort of inflammation, if this is in the feet, I would still consider it a form of laminitis.
 

peanut

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The important thing is to get to know your horse's digital pulse.

Mine has had laminitis once in the past so I am very aware and check it regularly. She will often have a raised pulse after a fast hack especially in warm weather but I know that if I check it again later it will have returned to what is normal for her.
 

PorkChop

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Yes, but as my farrier has always said- inflammation of the laminae is laminitis, regardless of whether it's been caused by grass, too much work on hard ground, frost, being newly shod or bad shoeing etc. Strong digital pulses are a sign of some sort of inflammation, if this is in the feet, I would still consider it a form of laminitis.

I understand where you are coming from, however, digital pulse can be raised in the presence of an abscess or a bruised sole, which is not laminitis.
 

eggs

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laminitis is laminitis. A raised digital pulse can be from a variety of different causes including abscess and bruising - one of my horses gets an absolutely bounding pulse with even the tiniest abscess.
 

The Fuzzy Furry

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Raised digital pulses can also be caused by animal standing for a long time in direct sun/heat. I used to have to let my 'carer' know not to panic a few yrs ago when I was going away, as 1 pony always had them if temps were very hot.
Had lots of exam by 2 vets (eminent ones that I would totally support) and both agreed same conclusion as farrier & myself - fantastic feet, no cushings, ems, lami etc, just make sure he was in a shady field/area if temps got exceedingly hot :)
 

JillA

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He also said that when you take the shoes off, the hoof moves in an entirely different way and actually stretches and contracts a lot more so if the hoof isn't entirely healthy then to start with there will be inflammation.

I would argue the hoof needs to stretch and contract to be entirely healthy - to get good blood flow to tissue that has been constricted long term. Yes, it might cause minor inflammation to begin with as blood gets into to constricted areas, but longer term it can only be good. It always used to be the case that shod horses had a month or so every year without shoes to give their feet a rest and develop their health but no-one seems to do that these days. Imagine having your feet permanently in shoes that if not tight were restricting and inflexible. I'm not sure whether he was arguing for or against being shod the whole time?
 

conniegirl

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Yes, agreed. Usually with an abscess it is fairly obvious through severe lameness
what the problem is, before needing to check pulses, but you are quite right.

not always, I had one horse who was just a bit off to ride, not lame, not even unlevel, it was realy weird. That was untill the abcess burst out of his coronary band! once it had burst out and been treated hw went back to his normal self.
 

conniegirl

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I would argue the hoof needs to stretch and contract to be entirely healthy - to get good blood flow to tissue that has been constricted long term. Yes, it might cause minor inflammation to begin with as blood gets into to constricted areas, but longer term it can only be good. It always used to be the case that shod horses had a month or so every year without shoes to give their feet a rest and develop their health but no-one seems to do that these days. Imagine having your feet permanently in shoes that if not tight were restricting and inflexible. I'm not sure whether he was arguing for or against being shod the whole time?

I was taking it to say that he supported it but that in the initial stages if the hoof is not totaly healthy to begin with then there will be some inflammation from stretching etc and that is to be expected and that you are silly to panic over a raised digital pulse.
 

scats

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not always, I had one horse who was just a bit off to ride, not lame, not even unlevel, it was realy weird. That was untill the abcess burst out of his coronary band! once it had burst out and been treated hw went back to his normal self.

Yes, hence why I said usually and not always :) I had one who was on-off not right for a few days, hoof testers showed nothing, no heat in foot, then out of nowhere an abscess erupted- same as yours- out of coronet band.
 

Christmas Crumpet

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I would argue the hoof needs to stretch and contract to be entirely healthy - to get good blood flow to tissue that has been constricted long term. Yes, it might cause minor inflammation to begin with as blood gets into to constricted areas, but longer term it can only be good. It always used to be the case that shod horses had a month or so every year without shoes to give their feet a rest and develop their health but no-one seems to do that these days. Imagine having your feet permanently in shoes that if not tight were restricting and inflexible. I'm not sure whether he was arguing for or against being shod the whole time?

Farrier was def. saying that horses NEED to have their shoes removed for a portion of the year. His point was that when shod, the hoof cannot contract and stretch and therefore does not. So when the shoes come off, the hoof does start to stretch and contract which will possibly cause a bit of inflammation and therefore a raised digital pulse. Farrier was very much in the horses "need shoes off for a holiday" camp.
 

Christmas Crumpet

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I was taking it to say that he supported it but that in the initial stages if the hoof is not totaly healthy to begin with then there will be some inflammation from stretching etc and that is to be expected and that you are silly to panic over a raised digital pulse.

Exactly what I was trying to say!!
 

meleeka

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I agree with your farrier :)

Mine gets them raised when her feet are full of solid mud. She has soft soles anyway which is probably why she feels it more.
 

brighteyes

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If a horse does not have a digital pulses it's dead .
Digital pulses will be raise for lots of reasons including normal exercise it's healthy and normal .
The issue is we say digital pulse as short hand for saying raised digital pulse with no normal reason for it being raised .

It's also good to know what is most normal for each horse or pony. Takes me ages to find one on my TB and Welsh x TB. A pony we have had for 15 years has historically had a variable one, usually more easily detectable than the other two but especially in hot weather. He's also odd in that he doesn't sweat properly and I think this is linked, but my vets think he is (otherwise) fine. He hasn't slowed down at all with his age, 20, and been kept at a sensible weight all his life. I still worry though, as that's my job!
 

twiggy2

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It's the same as knowing the horses normal resting temperature and heart rate, it's not the same for all and if all appears ok and the temp, heart or pulse rate are up rest the horse for 20-30 and check again.
There will be natural variation from one horse to the next and also fitness dependent/environment variation.
It's important to know what is normal for the individual.
 

brighteyes

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It's the same as knowing the horses normal resting temperature and heart rate, it's not the same for all and if all appears ok and the temp, heart or pulse rate are up rest the horse for 20-30 and check again.
There will be natural variation from one horse to the next and also fitness dependent/environment variation.
It's important to know what is normal for the individual.


True! I flat-out panicked with ponio's 'impending laminitis', having dealt with (the inherited) EMS and laminitis in our ancient loan pony. Learning curves all the time!
 

holeymoley

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Yes, but as my farrier has always said- inflammation of the laminae is laminitis, regardless of whether it's been caused by grass, too much work on hard ground, frost, being newly shod or bad shoeing etc. Strong digital pulses are a sign of some sort of inflammation, if this is in the feet, I would still consider it a form of laminitis.

The bit in bold is correct- laminitis is the inflammation of the laminae.

However I disagree with the second part of the quote. If a strong digital pulse is felt, it's not necessarily an indication of inflammation in the laminae, so therefore would not directly be laminitis, there could be many other reasons.
 

SEL

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Brighteyes - I have one that doesn't sweat in summer and she can get a decent digital pulse. She's off grass and x rays showed no sign of laminitis (navicular damage from an injury) so I think the inflammation in her body on a hot day causes problems in her feet too
 

sherry90

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My horse had a very mild bout of laminitis last year due to being overweight. At the time the vet said he had mild digital pulses in all four feet.
Despite being off grass for three months and being sound, he still, on some days, had a detectable (but not pounding pulse) and still to this day can.
I check his pulse daily and for heat in the feet. He wears overreach boots for turnout as he catches his heels. He almost always feels warm at the coroner when he comes in and also tends to have a pulse on warmer days moreso than cooler days. In hindsight, I don’t think his pulses last year were any more raised than they can be at times now. He has even had a pulse mid winter but granted that was after exercise.
I don’t think they can be 100% relied upon and must always be looked at in conjunction with other signs and symptoms and ultimately you knowing your horses vital stats.
 

brighteyes

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Brighteyes - I have one that doesn't sweat in summer and she can get a decent digital pulse. She's off grass and x rays showed no sign of laminitis (navicular damage from an injury) so I think the inflammation in her body on a hot day causes problems in her feet too

This fits exactly with my thoughts on it.
 
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