Dilema re; Tildren & Shockwave treatments?

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MissMincePie&Brandy

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*********THE QUESTION IS:
If I retire my horse from ridden work, would it be ethical for me to keep him on just bute and corrective shoeing, and not put him through the Tildren and Shockwave, which the vets are pushing me to start ASAP. He is currently not in any apparent pain and is quite cheerful and relaxed again. My vet is very keen to start this, but I have my doubts and I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the stress my horse will have to go through every 6 months, particularly if he's not ridden, not to mention the expense.

Do you think retiring him may cause his degenerative bone problems to get worse faster or would the rest be beneficial to him?


***********THE VERY LONG BACKGROUND STORY (sorry its so long)

2 weeks ago, my 9yr old TB went in for a poor performance investigation. He was not obviously unsound at all, but seemed lazy, was developing an occasional buck, and with all the schooling and work we were putting in, he was struggling to show any improvements. My instructors and myself all thought it was behavioural, but I had the vet out to rule out any problems before we started to get tougher with the way we rode him.

Flexion tests were not too bad, but showed about 1/20th lameness on the off hind, and marginal lameness on the near fore (both quite hard to see). He appeared stiff in the hind legs on a soft ground circle, but not really lame. He seemed a little pottery as well on a hard ground circle. The vet thought he was showing a little discomfort in his back upon palpation, and x-rays were the next step.

He spent two days at the vets before I received the dreaded diagnosis from x-rays and nerve blocks that wrote off my horse.
SPINE
Very severe Kissing Spine, starting at the wither and continuing all the way along the back.
Lytic lesions along the spine (holes forming within the bone – arthritic changes in the spine along the back)

RIGHT FRONT FOOT
Advanced Navicular disease in both front feet. Osteoarthritis of Pedal bone. Massive holes in bone, meaning very sever Navicular.
Bony Spur on pastern, where an old scar is (not active – old lesion)

LEFT FRONT FOOT
Similar to right foot - Navicular lesions. Bone remodeling on wings.
RIGHT HOCK
Enlargement of proximal suspensory ligament in hock. Proximal Suspensory Desmitis (PSD)
Narrowing in Joints. Mild loss of joint space.
Some, arthritic, bone spavin type changes, but not too bad.
He is sore and showing unsoundness behind in this leg, due to the high suspensory pain.

LEFT HOCK
Early bone/arthritic changes, not too bad yet.


He came home from the vets very lame, and in a very agitated state.
A few days later after returning home, he suffered right dorsel displacement colic on 2 consecutive days. (He's never colicked before, but I believe it was the combination of the drugs & stress from staying at the vets for 2 days)
The colic was a week ago, and he's all settled down, and his lameness has subsided again. To walk and trot him out in hand he appears to be sound again.
The vets have advised that with Tildren (to treat Navicular), Shockwave for the KS and the PSD, plus bute and corrective shoeing he can continue to do light hacking, but no dressage, jumping or lunging.
I've decided I want to retire him from riding, but I will keep him. He's the type of horse (17.2hh TB ex-chaser, who gets over-excitable if not in enough work, and) I believe he would be dangerous to ride as a light hack, which for me is straight onto roads.

So...
If I retire him from ridden work, would it be ethical for me to keep him on just bute and corrective shoeing, and not put him through the Tildren and Shockwave, which the vets are pushing me to start ASAP. He is currently not in any apparent pain and is quite cheerful and relaxed again. My vet is very keen to start this, but I have my doubts and I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the stress my horse will have to go through every 6 months, particularly if he's not ridden, not to mention the expense?

Do you think retiring him may cause his degenerative bone problems to get worse faster or would the rest be beneficial to him?
 
What an awful lot of problems with such a young horse. Poor you.

I can't advise but will be interested to hear what others have to say.
 
As in impartial observer there are several points.
1. You mention expense. You aren't going to be able to cure him, but you could spend a lot of money treating him. If you don't have the money to spare, then your vet is asking you to play an expensive game. It is your horse, don't let the vet bully you.
2. He sounds like a competition horse who will not settle as a hack, and you know your horse best.
3. Horses do not understand the word ethics, all they care about is being comfortable.

If he was mine, I would retire him for as long as he was comfortable with the aid of bute and any other non invasive/ reasonably priced treatments.

Good Luck.
 
Tildren is great IF it works. Our big fella has had 2 treatments for hock pain and neither have worked. We manage him with corrective shoeing and bute. If that makes us unethical then so be it.

You know your horse. Im always dubious about what a vet can find wrong. Run me through the scanner and I bet Im a walking miracle.

The choice is yours but if it was me and I could afford Tildren Id have a couple of goes with it before making any further decisions.

Big hugs to you.
 
If you're happy to retire him this is probably the best option. Our boy was diagnosed with PSD (LH) and collateral ligament damage (RF) albeit 3yrs apart. We threw everything we had at both injuries and he returned to work as a hack, however he was constantly on/off lame and it was heartbreaking. After nine months of trying to hack we had the vets back out who then started querying his hocks and back as well as his front suspensories. I decided to retire him and not put him through anymore investigations or treatments. It was the best decision I've ever made. He put on weight, never had colic (previously he was prone to it) and was happy. He was managed with corrective shoeing and danilon. Unfortunately he had to be pts two months ago as his DDFT in his LF had ruptured, but he had a very enjoyable 18 month retirement prior to this and looked a picture of health until his last day.
In short you could spend all the money in the world trying to fix this horse but it is likely another problem will develop. When injured horses move incorrectly to compensate for the pain it puts more strain on other joints/soft tissue causing further damage. It's a viscious circle.
You know your horse best. If you're happy for him to retire I wouldn't personally put him through further treatment. I'd let him go and enjoy himself in the field for however long his pain can be managed.
 
I know a horse that was retired at 7 due to arthritic changed in both hocks and Iam sure if the vets had carried on xraying and scanning there would of been much more found but as that was 10 years ago it just wasn't done.
He just had his shoes taken off and put out 24/7. He is still out in the field on no medication and is happy :-) I think sometimes vets can mess about too much as soon as they find out your insured.
 
I think it's totally ethical for you to do nothing.

Fundementally, veterinary medicine is about welfare of the animal. Sure we all like to do stuff and fix things....we like to feel good and to know we can do treatments that might help is great.

The vets are right for giving you every option available to chose from. But you should never walk away feeling pushed one way or another. Personally, I would say IMO I think this is not in the interests of your horses welfare once I feel he/she is in ongoing pain. Until that point, the choice is yours. You know your horse. You choose. :o

If the horse can be "patched up" to hack, and he's going to be unsafe for that work, don't bother putting him through it. What are you going to achieve. That's right for some...not all. I think (and I hope!) good vets won't judge you. We are there for information and guidance, not to belittle.

Best of luck, personally, I think you already have your decision.
Hope he's happy!
Imogen
 
Misinterpreted said:
*********THE QUESTION IS:
If I retire my horse from ridden work, would it be ethical for me to keep him on just bute and corrective shoeing, and not put him through the Tildren and Shockwave, which the vets are pushing me to start ASAP. He is currently not in any apparent pain and is quite cheerful and relaxed again. My vet is very keen to start this, but I have my doubts and I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the stress my horse will have to go through every 6 months, particularly if he's not ridden, not to mention the expense.

Do you think retiring him may cause his degenerative bone problems to get worse faster or would the rest be beneficial to him?


***********THE VERY LONG BACKGROUND STORY (sorry its so long)

2 weeks ago, my 9yr old TB went in for a poor performance investigation. He was not obviously unsound at all, but seemed lazy, was developing an occasional buck, and with all the schooling and work we were putting in, he was struggling to show any improvements. My instructors and myself all thought it was behavioural, but I had the vet out to rule out any problems before we started to get tougher with the way we rode him.

Flexion tests were not too bad, but showed about 1/20th lameness on the off hind, and marginal lameness on the near fore (both quite hard to see). He appeared stiff in the hind legs on a soft ground circle, but not really lame. He seemed a little pottery as well on a hard ground circle. The vet thought he was showing a little discomfort in his back upon palpation, and x-rays were the next step.

He spent two days at the vets before I received the dreaded diagnosis from x-rays and nerve blocks that wrote off my horse.
SPINE
Very severe Kissing Spine, starting at the wither and continuing all the way along the back.
Lytic lesions along the spine (holes forming within the bone – arthritic changes in the spine along the back)

RIGHT FRONT FOOT
Advanced Navicular disease in both front feet. Osteoarthritis of Pedal bone. Massive holes in bone, meaning very sever Navicular.
Bony Spur on pastern, where an old scar is (not active – old lesion)

LEFT FRONT FOOT
Similar to right foot - Navicular lesions. Bone remodeling on wings.
RIGHT HOCK
Enlargement of proximal suspensory ligament in hock. Proximal Suspensory Desmitis (PSD)
Narrowing in Joints. Mild loss of joint space.
Some, arthritic, bone spavin type changes, but not too bad.
He is sore and showing unsoundness behind in this leg, due to the high suspensory pain.

LEFT HOCK
Early bone/arthritic changes, not too bad yet.


He came home from the vets very lame, and in a very agitated state.
A few days later after returning home, he suffered right dorsel displacement colic on 2 consecutive days. (He's never colicked before, but I believe it was the combination of the drugs & stress from staying at the vets for 2 days)
The colic was a week ago, and he's all settled down, and his lameness has subsided again. To walk and trot him out in hand he appears to be sound again.
The vets have advised that with Tildren (to treat Navicular), Shockwave for the KS and the PSD, plus bute and corrective shoeing he can continue to do light hacking, but no dressage, jumping or lunging.
I've decided I want to retire him from riding, but I will keep him. He's the type of horse (17.2hh TB ex-chaser, who gets over-excitable if not in enough work, and) I believe he would be dangerous to ride as a light hack, which for me is straight onto roads.

So...
If I retire him from ridden work, would it be ethical for me to keep him on just bute and corrective shoeing, and not put him through the Tildren and Shockwave, which the vets are pushing me to start ASAP. He is currently not in any apparent pain and is quite cheerful and relaxed again. My vet is very keen to start this, but I have my doubts and I am not sure if the benefits would outweigh the stress my horse will have to go through every 6 months, particularly if he's not ridden, not to mention the expense?

Do you think retiring him may cause his degenerative bone problems to get worse faster or would the rest be beneficial to him?
Click to expand...

My boy who is a 13yr old WB had three lots of Tildren. The side effects following treatment weren't nice but it appeared to work. Then after the three tildren (over the course of 12 months) the vets said it hadn't worked. However he is jumping up to 3ft, and unaffiliated dressage upto elementary and he is fine. I'd go for Tildren, it is very beneficial in cases of mild BS. Also get the horse on MSM as that is very useful in cases of mild BS.
 
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