Dilemma! (Re extending my prefix!)

Fahrenheit

Fahrenheit

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I contacted CHAPS the other day (following the instructions on the cover certificate for my foal) about using my already registerd prefix with them and they (very curtly) told me I need to deal with the CPR, so ive just been on the CPR website and downloaded the form to extend my prefix to cover CHAPS and the CPR website says you have to send the prefix extension to the breed society........ so which is it, do I send it to CHAPS who say I have to deal with the CPR or the CPR who says I have to send it to the breed society, I don't actually want to contact either of them and ask which because I am frightened of being told off again and made to feel 1cm tall
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I had this problem too but TBH, it's a few years ago now and I've forgotten how it was done! CHAPS are always less than helpful I've found too, quite snotty about it as if you are too much trouble! If stallion wasn't graded with them I'd think about using the BSPA instead and it would serve them right!
I think I rang CPR, had a word from them, they said apply to CHAPS with your prefix (think I just rang to find out is was available with them too, it was) , so I sent in dosh (£18) to CPR; I also sent in foal registration with prefix added and a note that I had applied to CPR for an upgrade and passport came back correct quite quickly. I also had to send my prefix certificate back to CPR to be updated - they sent out a new one with SHB and CHAPS on.
Just looked on back of cert' and it says if you wish to include another breed society/ies that are CPR registered, then send a letter with details of your wishes with your certificate and fee to CPR. That was September 04 so they might have changed methods by now!
 
HG, you need to send your form to the breed society to extend your prefix. I do the CPR forms for the SSH and this is what we do. We send forms to our breeders to fill in, they then send me the form along with the fee (as each breed society can be different in what they charge). We then fax/send the form on to the CPR who then invoice us direct.

If you go to the CPR direct then they may charge you more, as each breed society has a set fee to pay per prefix registered through them.

What you can do is contact the lady at the CPR and let her know that you wish to extend your prefix, she can then check this against CHAPS and put the prefix on hold until she receives the paperwork.

Hope this helps....
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Thanks MFH and Anastasia (Anastasia are you involved with the SSH then or is it justthe prefix side because if you our can you PM me stallion grading information please
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I did contacted CHAPS because this is what I thought I had to do (and its what it says on their covering certificate) but I basically got a snotty message back telling me it was CPR I had to deal with.
I already have my prefix registered for SHB and its only 1 foal I got to register with CHAPS but it clearly says if your prefix is registered to cover CHAPS they'll just strike the prefix and register without, so I politely emailed CHAPS and well..........I wish I hadn't asked! They basically didn't want to know so it left me in a 2 and 8 as to whether to send it to CHAPS or CPR or not bother and register the foal SHB because the mare is graded with them!
 
Follow Up: I got the vet out to do the diagrams today for my foals - I have deceide to get two filled out of the foal in question, the CHAPS and the SHB(GB) and make a decision later as to which one to send in, I have just reread the CHAPS one an I have to get a DNA kit from them and I don;t want to ask incase I get a stroppy message again, so it might actually work out better to go SHB(GB) anyway as I already have their DNA kit. Then I can send his passport in for overstamping with CHAPS. Decisions Decisions! i don't think the cost will work out must different anymore:
CHAPS is £20 foal reg, £20 extend prefis and probably £40 DNA kit,
SHB(GB) is £35 foal reg (as only 1 parent is graded) and £40 DNA.
So I was thinking it was going to cost me more to go via SHB(GB) but actually it won;t and I get to deal with happy friendly people too, so I can't go wrong really can I?
Unless anyone can think of what advantage registering the foal CHAPS has over SHB(GB)??
 
HG I understand that the stallion is Graded with the SHB (GB) but what about the mare? which studbook is she graded with?

If both parents are Graded SHB (GB) then they will have the stallion and the mares DNA on record so you will only need to DNA the foal.

If the mare is not Graded and no DNA is held for her then she too will need to be DNA tested as the foals DNA needs to be matched against both parents DNA profile.

Or if you hold a DNA profile of the mare that can be sent in with the foals DNA.
 
The stallion is CHAPS graded and the mare is SHB graded and yes its the foals DNA I am talking about sending in, I didn't realise I had to send it in for CHAPS (because he was concieved artificially, you don't if its natural cover!), I am undecided as which to register him with because I was going to register him CHAPS (because thats who the cover cert is with) but they aren't very helpful when I have contacted them with questions so I am thinking of registering him SHB (as he can be because of the mare) because at least you get service with a smile
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Ok but if the stallion is not SHB (GB) Graded what registry will the foal be in?

I'm not getting the natural V AI difference though, DNA testing should be carried out regardless of how a horse was bred no?

register the foal KWPN REG B and be done with it all....... LOL
 
Lol. Well SHB they all get DNAed, AES they don;t unless they are already weaned and CHAPS it says that they require DNA testing if foal was concieved artificially - nothing like unformity across the studbooks is there lol!

The foal would be in the Auxillary studbook with SHB, until either the sire grades or the foal grades then it will go full studbook.

I should register the foal CHAPS but its the fourth time ive asked something (previous was re change of ownership and cover certs for CHAPS stallion) and its the fourth time ive had a curt/snotty/rude reply and don't really feel like being delittled by them again for having to ask for something else, i'll probably give in in the end but feeling abit anti spending my money with people who can't be nice to customers when the customer has been polite (i'd understand it if i'd been rude!)
Perhaps I should just register them all KWPN Reg B!!!!!!!!
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or the foal grades then it will go full studbook.

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?? Really? so SHB (GB) do not stipulate that the stallion has to be Graded with a WBSHF approved stud book with a certified stallion performance test result? and that it can automatically enter Main or head stud book regardless of the stallions status if it receives a successful result at the age of three?

Or is it because they have an additional clause that recognises CHAPS Graded stallions?

genuinely interested in knowing, like you say learning all the rules and regulations of all the studbooks is a challenge.....

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AES they don;t

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I didn't know that either, i thought all foals had to be DNA tested as had some breeder ranting the other day that it cost them £200 or so to register a foal recently....
 
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I am only going on what I was told with regards to the SHB, I maybe wrong...but the way I took it that if the pedigree was there and they successfully graded themsemlves that would over rule the fact that one parent wasn't graded with them, i'll put that on my list to double check the next time I email marian with aload of questions.
All I can tell you is my stallion went full stud book when he graded, he had a full pedigree but neither parent was on SHB at the time although dad was graded abroad and I have just looked at when my mare graded into the Main Studbook, her passport got update to the Full Studbook from Auxillary!

The AES cost £47 to register foals as long as they are registered in the year of birth and the diagram is done on the cover certificate by a vet prior to weaning (I just enveloped mine up for this year so I can guarantee that is correct!) Its also on their website! If they are register after this date its £58.75 plus a DNA test which is £40ish per horse, so £40 for the foal/youngster and £40 for wac aprent if their DNA isn't already held (ie not graded!)
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I have always thought of starting my own studbook but will never get round to it, where the horses are graded on their conformation etc and then they upgrade purely on their performance record but I am sure it would be far more complicated in reality
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I am only going on what I was told with regards to the SHB, I maybe wrong...but the way I took it that if the pedigree was there and they successfully graded themsemlves that would over rule the fact that one parent wasn't graded with them, i'll put that on my list to double check the next time I email marian with aload of questions.

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yes I would check, I know for instance that one of our mares was accepted into the Head Stud Book when graded because her parents met the studbook guideline criteria that both parents were by "Approved" stallions with a recognised EU studbook but still do not know what their main studbook criteria is, so update welcome!

I "think" that foals who are by non - approved WBFSH stud books do not qualify for Main Stud book, which is why I ask if they recognise a CHAPS grading.

In the case of your stallion, chances are that his sire and his dams sire "are" by two fully approved stallions with a SHB (GB) recognised studbook and that is probably why he was entered into the main stud book automatically.

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I have always thought of starting my own studbook but will never get round to it, where the horses are graded on their conformation etc and then they upgrade purely on their performance record but I am sure it would be far more complicated in reality

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I think it would Good Luck! LOL
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yes I would check, I know for instance that one of our mares was accepted into the Head Stud Book when graded because her parents met the studbook guideline criteria that both parents were by "Approved" stallions with a recognised EU studbook but still do not know what their main studbook criteria is, so update welcome!

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See now this is interesting, I have a graded Head Studbook mare and she is by a HIS stallion but she is out of a Welsh Sec D! I also have a Head Studbook mare that is by a gelding (obviously before he was gelded but my point being he was never graded!) out of a mare with no pedigree and she has also gone Elite with another society! You'll be glad to hear my third Head Studbook mare is 100% cosher to what you thought they needed to be to go Head Studbook. Its all very interesting isn't it and very
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All my Main Studbook mares have full pedigree by stallions like Voltaire, Goodtimes, Calvados so can't really use them for comparison!

Ahhhhhhhh but thinking about it I may have worked it out!
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They can go Head Studbook or Main Studbook without the pedigree if they reach a higher mark at the grading i'm sure.

Yes Yes I remember now, critera was:
Head Studbook with 3 generations of proven pedigree and score 8+ at grading or less than 3 generation of proven pedigree score 8.5+ at grading.
Main Studbook with 2 generations of proven pedigree and score 6+ at grading and less than 2 generation and score 8.5+ at grading
and
Foundation Studbbok is just score 5+ at grading!

(Really I just looked it up - lol)
 
Bingo! Your right, they require a higher score of 8.5 for animals that are by non approved stallions with studbooks outwith their recognition....... but they don't grade geldings at three do they? so unles he is kept entire he would remain in the auxilary book. ??
 
hmm just butting in here, if you have a mare reg with one society and they DNA test her one year with a foal at foot then surely you wouldnt need to pay the same society again to DNA her the following year with a new foal??? Because i have just paid again for one of my mares in this way???

As for the cost being £200 i can believe that but did it include branding? For my foals this year as i have to brand at home i am paying

£125 for the first foal and £75 for the other, then £17 each mare and each foal DNA then £20 a mare for breeding rights and £40 membership which i have to be to register, then of course the vet fee for doing the ID, so to average this all out per foal not including the vet is £348 then divided by 2 = £174 per foal.
 
To be fair if i hire a lorry, get hubby to take time off work and go to the reginal show it is £50 for branding but things havnt worked out for us to do that this year hence why branding at home
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but i did think paying again for DNA wasnt right, unless i have it wrong and will have a cheque back in the post
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Madness at times this breeding lark, one of my last year foals i needed to sell in a hurry due to ending a bussiness with a partner, she was a fully papered Hannovarian, cost me a fortune with vets fees to AI mare, stud fees, registering and then rearing her for a year and struggled to get £2000 for her??!!
 
I know, people don't like paying for decent youngsters, I had someone come once to look at a £800 pony foal and they asked me if I had anything a similar price I said I had, thinking of 2 other pony youngsters I would take £1000 for each, they arrived went into the foal pen, didn't like the pony foal but liked one of my best foals, when I told them that thats was a £2500 foal they said but you said you had things a similar price, I said I have and I took them to see the 2 pony yearlings and they said but I don;t want a grey (because they were both grey!), they went back to the foal pen and wanted the £2500 foal and they couldn't understand why I wouldn't sell them the foal for £800 and got really narky with me, like I pointed out to them £800 wouldn't even cover the stud fee for the sire of that particular foal, they didn't get it and left with the hump!
 
Honestly, i just dont think they understand the work and money that goes into it all, bloody numptys! Seems foals in Europe can fetch maga bucks but i see at the Brightwells auction last weekend a lot didnt reach there reserve on £3500...hmmm quickly packs bags and moves to Germany/Holland lmao
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