Dilemma .....

[applecart14]

I don't understand why some people are against buying RS horses (a friend of mine is trying everything to stop me buying him, she has a beautiful dutch warm blood dressage horse who spooks, spins, bucks and rears at the drop of a hat) - they are in the main better trained than some of the one's on the open market and have had a good standard of care. Yes, some of them are dopey but there are a few diamonds amongst them too that shouldn't necessarily be overlooked. And yes, Dougal is one of them !!

They are against buying RS horses because of the potential problems they may encounter with them as riding a horse continually in a cirle as the riding school format is, on a poor surface causes all sorts of joint problems. My friend imported one from France, used in a riding school. She used to ride the mare when she was abroad on holiday and when she found the riding school was selling up bought her.

She had her imported and had lots of problems with her, and within a year of owning her was having the vet out for athritis of the knee joints.
If you don't listen to anything else from this situation please at least listen to so many of us who are saying get her vetted.

Good luck

 

[Joanne_Stockport]

They are against buying RS horses because of the potential problems they may encounter with them as riding a horse continually in a cirle as the riding school format is, on a poor surface causes all sorts of joint problems. My friend imported one from France, used in a riding school. She used to ride the mare when she was abroad on holiday and when she found the riding school was selling up bought her.

She had her imported and had lots of problems with her, and within a year of owning her was having the vet out for athritis of the knee joints.
If you don't listen to anything else from this situation please at least listen to so many of us who are saying get her vetted.

Good luck

She already mentioned that she was getting a 5* vetting done so I think she will know if there are obvious problems from that.

 

[Dougal9]

Yup 5* vetting was always going to happen. By the way, he doesn't ride round and round on a continuous circle and the surfaces at the school are not poor either (rubber/sand). He jumps/hacks/dressage up to elementary level and goes xcountry - a real mixture of disciplines which kind of knocks out the argument of him just going round and round all day ....
Yes, I may find that he has problems - but then he may pass the vetting with flying colours. The same applies to horses bought on the open market. There are arguments for and against buying any horse, I just don't think that a horse should be written off just because they've been in a RS environment. I have, by the way, looked at others and tried a couple outside of the RS - but I just didn't feel confident not knowing their temperament as I do with Dougal. Really knowing your first horse before you buy, has got to carry a lot of credence surely !

 

[be positive]

They are against buying RS horses because of the potential problems they may encounter with them as riding a horse continually in a cirle as the riding school format is, on a poor surface causes all sorts of joint problems. My friend imported one from France, used in a riding school. She used to ride the mare when she was abroad on holiday and when she found the riding school was selling up bought her.

She had her imported and had lots of problems with her, and within a year of owning her was having the vet out for athritis of the knee joints.
If you don't listen to anything else from this situation please at least listen to so many of us who are saying get her vetted.

Good luck

You are speaking from one bad experience that may have had nothing to do with the RS, your own horse is hardly a good example of a sound non RS horse with all the issues Bailey has had, including arthritis, you know full well that some horses will stay sound, others will break and in my experience it is just as much down to luck as anything else, good conformation will help as will the horse being kept fit enough for the job it is doing, if Dougal has been well looked after, had a variety of work and passes the vet there is no reason to think he will be any more likely to go lame in the near future than any other horse, if he fails the vetting then the OP will probably look elsewhere but I think at the price even with a few minor issues he could be a really good buy and wish her good luck with him.

 

[FestiveFuzz]

It sounds like you're going into this with your eyes open and whilst it's nice to ask opinions on a forum I would take it with a pinch of salt to a certain agree as really your instructor and the YO are best placed (albeit potentially biased) to say whether you and Dougal are the best match as they know both you and Dougal.

Personally I would always avoid RS horses as I would be concerned of the impact of being ridden by so many people of varying abilities and how they would cope with the decreased workload of being in a private home...but to me hacking alone and being able to hop on after a week of no work is vital. That said I am under no illusion that there would be RS horses out there that would be totally able to cope with that, but it's not a risk I would want to take. But then again I have been riding for 23 years and owned many horses during that time, so I put less emphasis on the value of knowing a horse well before I buy.

The only thing that made me a little wary of whether Dougal would be the perfect horse for you was when you said...

to be honest I kind of hope he does change a bit, as he can be lazy so a bit more oomph would be nice - although obviously not too much - haha !!

Whilst there's a lot to be said about buying a horse on gut instinct (my current boy is the only one I didn't sit on and just "know" and he's also going to be the only one I've ended up selling). Much like a relationship I wouldn't be too keen to go into it wishing the horse was different temperament wise and would probably hold out for one that ticked all my boxes. Also, reading between the lines if you're not able to buy him until March you may find that your riding has progressed to a point where you're looking for something more by then...so just bear that in mind too.

 

[Goldenstar]

dougal 100%. he sounds exactly what you want.

Me too , you can very lucky with an old horse and 19 is old but you also be unlucky and hit issues quickly .

 

[Booboos]

So this horse is a bombproof competition all rounder but he's being sold for £2,500? In the open market he would be worth 5-10k based on his quality so this is a massive reduction. His owner is either a saint who truly wants a good future for her horses regardless of money or something is not quite right in all of this.

I am not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, I just think that when buying a horse it pays to be really really sceptical and questioning.

 

[paddi22]

Riding horses often do have a lot of issues transitioning from a riding school to a single home. The main ones are the change from a lot of daily hours of work, to just being ridden by one owner. They can also be very clever and quickly realise they can take advantage of their new owner if they get away with stuff uncorrected (but same with any horse). They can start coming alive and feeling a bit better in themselves and get sharper and more energetic. They also can have issues with being unresponsive and getting dead to the aids as they have had people bashing their mouths and sides, and bouncing round unbalanced.

I've never seen a horse go from a RS horse to a personally owned one and not change. usually its for the best though! It's lovely to see them blossom with some personal attention and get a new spark in their eye.

If they have mainly been ridden in a school they can often be spooky in new enviroments.

 

[Aleka81]

D

So this horse is a bombproof competition all rounder but he's being sold for £2,500? In the open market he would be worth 5-10k based on his quality so this is a massive reduction. His owner is either a saint who truly wants a good future for her horses regardless of money or something is not quite right in all of this.

I am not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, I just think that when buying a horse it pays to be really really sceptical and questioning.

Totally agree!

 

[Booboos]

Just to add...I bought a totally unsuitable first horse from my RC many years ago. Like a total fool I trusted them to look after me and they sold me a complete lunatic (which was not as obvious pre-purchase as you might have imagined).

 

[Dougal9]

I think i will bow out of this thread - as like some (but not all) riding school horses we seem to be going round in circles. Apart from some very supportive comments, which I am grateful for, I'm left feeling a bit battered and bruised by the more brutal ones. Not so much the content, but the tone used - maybe unintentional maybe not. No doubt my feeling like this will be used as another reason why I shouldn't buy a riding school horse or even some may say, a horse at all. Sorry to disappoint those that doubt my sanity - I haven't been put off at all, just put off posting any more comments on this forum !

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Just remember that you are the only one who has seen Dougal in person. Everyone else hasn't, so take their RS horses comments with a pinch of salt as they don't know this specific RS horse.

 

[SO1]

I am sorry to hear this and I have a feeling that I know the RS you are buying from and that the horses there do have a variety of life and it is not a massively busy one so that horses I don't think will have been overworked.

You are taking a risk when you buy any horse and one that you know and your instructor knows is in my opinion less risky. I presume your instructors will go on to get new jobs or may be available freelance to come and support you. They probably won't want their reputation damaged by giving you poor advice or suggesting a horse that would not be suitable.

I think the price seems fair he is not a top competition horse as he will probably be only have been competing at the RS school competitions and he is a coloured cob and there are quite a few of them around.

The only issue I would say is that if he kicks other horses a lot you may find you need individual turnout when you move to livery as you might not be very popular if he kicks his field-mates and hurts them.

As a Riding School horse is unlikely he has been doing a lot of fast work or jumping huge jumps on hard ground, hunting or eventing and if he is the quieter sort he may have been used more for the beginner lessons and hacks which are sometimes less demanding. He will probably have done no more circles than a dressage horse that goes out competing a lot and is schooled on a regular basis. Riding Schools tend to be careful with their horses as a lame RS horse is no use to them.

You are getting a vetting, you are having your horse on full livery, the horse has been deemed suitable by your instructor, the majority of people would say you are doing all you can to reduce the risk of an unsuitable horse. Yes some RS get more lively when taken out of the RS environment if kept on the same levels of feed and turnout, however you may be able to adjust his management to take into consideration the drop in work levels. I think the most likely scenario is that if he is a steady cob type he won't become much more lively but you might might have issues managing his weight if he is not being ridden so much as cobs tend to be very good doers. If hacking out on your own is something you want to do then you may have to find a way to test that Dougal is ok with this as RS horses rarely hack alone.

As a comparison my pony lived out for 6 years and I moved yards last year and he is now living in at night. A lot of people say that horses that live in at night are more lively to ride than ones that live out. My pony's energy levels have not changed at all since his on a new routine at a new yard.

Good Luck with Dougal and don't let comments put you off- you may find livery yards can be a bit like that at times too, as not everyone has the same opinions on what is best and not everyone is good at putting their point across in a gentle considered way.

I think i will bow out of this thread - as like some (but not all) riding school horses we seem to be going round in circles. Apart from some very supportive comments, which I am grateful for, I'm left feeling a bit battered and bruised by the more brutal ones. Not so much the content, but the tone used - maybe unintentional maybe not. No doubt my feeling like this will be used as another reason why I shouldn't buy a riding school horse or even some may say, a horse at all. Sorry to disappoint those that doubt my sanity - I haven't been put off at all, just put off posting any more comments on this forum !

 

[wench]

I've had plenty of working horses on working livery, and none of them have developed any type of problems from "going around and around in ever decreasing circles on a rubbish surface"

But I would be suprised at a RS owned horse that is actually schooled up to elementary level dressage, without having been competed/trained in a private home first.,

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Older horses will have more problems. Add that to a riding school environment where the horse is expected to go round in ever decreasing circles most probably unbalanced and on a less than perfect surface and its a recipe for disaster. I'd steer clear of both to be honest, sorry that might seem harsh but you have a massive choice of horse out there on the market at the moment, why compromise?

Sorry it might sound harsh but its just my opinion.

I have bought several horses that have worked in RS, none of them has been a problem on their own. They (bar the gelding who had a field accident) have lived long and happy lives as family horses and have thoroughly appreciated the change of pace, as they got older. So long as the new owner realises that they do not need feeding for hard work, they are fine.

ETA And all 4 have been as near to 'bombproof' as any horse can be. I can actually remember every 'spooking' incident with each of them because they were so rare. They were all wonderful at hacking and completely traffic-proof.

I am not surprised that OP has decided to bow out of the thread, although I hope that she is still reading, there has been a lot of unhelpful nonsense based on a few posters single unfortunate experiences.

 

[applecart14]

You are speaking from one bad experience that may have had nothing to do with the RS, your own horse is hardly a good example of a sound non RS horse with all the issues Bailey has had, including arthritis, you know full well that some horses will stay sound, others will break and in my experience it is just as much down to luck as anything else, good conformation will help as will the horse being kept fit enough for the job it is doing, if Dougal has been well looked after, had a variety of work and passes the vet there is no reason to think he will be any more likely to go lame in the near future than any other horse, if he fails the vetting then the OP will probably look elsewhere but I think at the price even with a few minor issues he could be a really good buy and wish her good luck with him.

Yes I agree with your comments. But as I already stated I know someone that bought from a riding school too and had problems because of the stress on the joints.

I too wish the OP well, I was just pointing out my experience. You might say "its the luck of the draw" but if the odds MAY already be stacked against this horse (and who knows if they are or not) then IMHO its simply not worth the hassle for a first time owner. That was all I was saying.

And yes there are plenty of horses of all ages, breeds and disciplines who are the same or much much worse off than my horse, you probably don't hear about them on this forum because of the negative comments given to their owners. I was just trying to save the OP the stress that she COULD find herself in given the horses situation as a riding school horse.

I think when you are a first time owner you want to buy something that might not already be compromised in some way, that was all I was saying. And look at my horse, he passed two vettings and then went on to develop spavin, the second degree heart block and coffin joint athritis were not picked up on either vetting, because they were not advanced enough or present at the time of the vetting.

I was only trying to prevent future possible heartbreak. Of course I wish the OP well.

 

[applecart14]

I am not surprised that OP has decided to bow out of the thread, although I hope that she is still reading, there has been a lot of unhelpful nonsense based on a few posters single unfortunate experiences.

Just because my experience differs from yours, its a bit unfair to label it as 'unhelpful nonsense' but then I am not entirely suprised as you always seem to object to everything I write these days. There are others on this post that did agree with me, so I am not the only one who believes that this horse may already be compromised. And how many more than a 'few posters single unfortunate experiences' do you need until it becomes a valid point Pearlsasinger??

I spoke to my physio weeks ago now about someone else I know who was buying a potential riding school horse and she said that in her experience the majority and I stress the word 'majority' come with physical problems consistent with leg and joint problems due to the stresses placed on them through poor surfaces and unbalanced riders.

And before I get accused of saying 'all riding school patrons are unbalanced riders' I am not stating that. But beginners will not be of the same calibre as more experienced riders.

In the same way I would not contemplate buying a horse that has been ridden in a menage six days a week every week for years, I was expressing the same opinion of Dougal.

 

[Dougal9]

Ok to make a final summary of my situation, put the record straight and answer the constant trickle of critics........

Dougal is NOT ridden 6 days a week round and round in a circle.
The MOST he does is 2 hours a day, and that is not every day
The SURFACES at the school are of a good quality
His Workload WILL NOT change drastically when we move yards
We will be surrounded by EXPERIENCED people in the new yard to assist if needed
He WILL BE 5* VETTED as I mentioned before


Just because I am coming back to riding after having children DOES NOT mean that I am totally new to horses
He will be my first horse - and be assured I will be better prepared for ownership of him than some of you so called more 'experienced' people
He was in a private home to the age of 4, and then for the last 5 years at the RS where he HAS been trained up to Elementary Dressage Level and competed at that level - now fancy a RS horse doing that !!
He HACKS without issues
He can complete a XC course
He can complete a SJ course
Yes he kicks if another horse gets to close to his behind but only in CONFINED SPACES and NOT in the PADDOCK

I joined this forum because I thought I would get some good sound advice - I would like to say a huge thank you to those of you who have answered this thread with such advice. But for those of you who seem to be just looking down your noses at the horse I am about to buy because he is from a riding school - then get over yourselves ladies !! A privately bought horse is no less likely to have issues than a RS horse and there is not one of you out there that can prove it - no matter how much you would like to. And as for using the forum to have a go at each other - well, I'm glad I'm out of it.

 

[be positive]

You have defended Dougal, the RS and yourself extremely well, it is a shame you had to, for some reason you have had some of the most negative opinions of RS horses I have ever heard, mainly based on a single bad experience, I have dealt with many horses from all different backgrounds over the years, inc RS horses as I ran a RS for some time, no horse is perfect and can go wrong despite every care taken.
I really hope you can buy and enjoy owning Dougal and if you feel you can come back please do most of us will be welcoming, you can always block the others.

 

[applecart14]

But for those of you who seem to be just looking down your noses at the horse I am about to buy because he is from a riding school - then get over yourselves ladies !!

For goodness sake love, no one was looking down their noses at you! Far from it. You asked for advice. I gave you my advice. My physio has seen it first hand. So it can be proved. But whatever. I don't have to get over anything, because I haven't looked down my nose at you. I have already expressed you luck TWICE!

Your tone, like your quote 'fancy a riding school horse doing that' makes it clear that you believe that I think less of a riding school horse than a privately bought one, nothing could be further from the truth. You are making assumptions which are incorrect whereas my assumption is borne from a friend who took one on, and her experience and also from discussing a similar case with my physio friend where a mutual friend wanted to buy a RS horse and she said she has also witnessed first hand that RS horses are likely to have more problems than ' A OTHER' horse.. I would happily of bought a riding school horse years ago before I bought my first horse. However, I now know the pitfalls. Like I would be extremely unlikely to buy another WB again, now I know the pitfalls they can present with, again something borne from experience!

So please don't accuse me of looking down my nose at you, I don't even know you and find it infuriating and annoying that you think I am doing so merely by expressing an opinion that you asked me (and others) to express.

 

[wren123]

Well said Dougal9, I think you are doing all the right things and Dougal sounds great, and good luck with him. I look forward to hearing your progress

 

[Booboos]

G

Ok to make a final summary of my situation, put the record straight and answer the constant trickle of critics........

Dougal is NOT ridden 6 days a week round and round in a circle.
The MOST he does is 2 hours a day, and that is not every day
The SURFACES at the school are of a good quality
His Workload WILL NOT change drastically when we move yards
We will be surrounded by EXPERIENCED people in the new yard to assist if needed
He WILL BE 5* VETTED as I mentioned before


Just because I am coming back to riding after having children DOES NOT mean that I am totally new to horses
He will be my first horse - and be assured I will be better prepared for ownership of him than some of you so called more 'experienced' people
He was in a private home to the age of 4, and then for the last 5 years at the RS where he HAS been trained up to Elementary Dressage Level and competed at that level - now fancy a RS horse doing that !!
He HACKS without issues
He can complete a XC course
He can complete a SJ course
Yes he kicks if another horse gets to close to his behind but only in CONFINED SPACES and NOT in the PADDOCK

I joined this forum because I thought I would get some good sound advice - I would like to say a huge thank you to those of you who have answered this thread with such advice. But for those of you who seem to be just looking down your noses at the horse I am about to buy because he is from a riding school - then get over yourselves ladies !! A privately bought horse is no less likely to have issues than a RS horse and there is not one of you out there that can prove it - no matter how much you would like to. And as for using the forum to have a go at each other - well, I'm glad I'm out of it.

You've lost the plot now a bit. None of this is about snobbery of RC horses, what utter rubbish. You got plenty of advice and different points of view on buying a specific horse which happens to be an RC horse.

P.S. If you threaten to flounce in a huff you need to flounce in a huff - coming back ruins the flounce.

 

[stencilface]

Hope dougal loves his new home.

Having bought a horse aged 4 who has very low mileage now aged 15, and has been basically off work for 4 years due to lameness, it doesn't matter what work a horse is or isn't in - if they are going to break, they are going to break - you can never tell which horse it will be either!

And FWIW the riding school I went to as a kid still does loads of hacking, and lets pupils take the horses out hunting too, so they are far from dull rides. And I don't think his price is off either, I just think a lot of horses are very overpriced for what they can do. Horses that can do BE90 for £5000 + is ridiculous imho, its only 90cm for flips sake, most horses should be able to trip over that!

 

[Joanne_Stockport]

it's getting a bit silly this thread really !
I can understand why the OP is getting defensive, she is only new on this forum and and it has obviously open a can of worms !
She did not even ask if there should be a reason why she shouldn't buy a RS horse, she was only asking about a choice between two horses.
They are both from a RS horse.
Fair enough you can warn her put there is not point of going on and on about it.

 

[applecart14]

She did not even ask if there should be a reason why she shouldn't buy a RS horse, she was only asking about a choice between two horses.
.

Sorry but I beg to differ. To quote the OP's last sentence in her original post "Any thoughts, ideas would be very welcome here"

I am only defending myself because I have been told that I am, (and I quote) 'looking down my nose at the horse I am about to buy because he is a RS horse' which is really unfair and not the case at all. I like all horses, big, small, hairy, clipped, WB's to cobs, Gymkana ponies to Grand Prix show jumpers, Riding School to Spanish Riding School of Vienna, I have no particular 'type' I do not like in general although admittedly we all have our own personal preferences.

I never said RS horses were dull plods either, far from it, I used to love my lessons in particular I was the only one who loved to ride the RS bucker and rearer for the challenge!

I won't bother to make any further comments as they are only going to be misconstrued and not taken in the kindly way they are intended.

 

[paddi22]

I can't see why the OP is flouncing off - no-one suggested all rs were crocks. If I was in her place I'd be grateful to people for pointing out situations where their exRS horses had issues, as it could be useful at some point in the future if there WAS an issue, or it might be handy to flag with a vet during a vetting just to double check. It happens here all the time with exracers etc, were people flag possible back or si injuries - and if the new owner has a problem with the horse rearing then they have the knowledge of what others have experienced with theirs.

I don't think its out of the blue to assume some ex rs horses might have physical issues. Most yards I've been in over 30 years have had deep surfaces, with horses doing repetitive movements with unbalanced riders. If the OPs has a good surface with a horse doing 2hrs max that's brilliant, but most don't, and people were speaking from their own rs experiences.

I read back the thread and can't see anyone being snobby about RS horses??. Most people have nothing but respect for RS horses, and most are absolute saints.

 

[LovesCobs]

The transition from riding school horse to privately owned is generally a challenging one. The owner thinks the horse will be grateful for the special cuddles, the new expensive livery, the new tack, etc...the horse is more likely than not freaked out by his security blanket being removed and his work load slashed. By buying a riding school horse you are taking a risk that he will adjust to his new life and do so smoothly. If you were to buy a privately owned first horse that had been out grown you'd have less of an adjustment issue.

I bought a riding school horse, he'd only been there 9 months and wasn't a beginner ride. However what others have said about the adjustment is very true. The decrease in work load and for my horse the increase in time stabled led to a few challenges in the first year! He's likely to become a different horse. With that in mind I'd go for the steadier horse of the two as the horse you've been riding who's a bit livelier may become a lot to handle in private ownership. I hope it all works well for you
Just to add I've never regretted it, my lad is great

 

[FestiveFuzz]

Ok to make a final summary of my situation, put the record straight and answer the constant trickle of critics........

Dougal is NOT ridden 6 days a week round and round in a circle.
The MOST he does is 2 hours a day, and that is not every day
The SURFACES at the school are of a good quality
His Workload WILL NOT change drastically when we move yards
We will be surrounded by EXPERIENCED people in the new yard to assist if needed
He WILL BE 5* VETTED as I mentioned before


Just because I am coming back to riding after having children DOES NOT mean that I am totally new to horses
He will be my first horse - and be assured I will be better prepared for ownership of him than some of you so called more 'experienced' people
He was in a private home to the age of 4, and then for the last 5 years at the RS where he HAS been trained up to Elementary Dressage Level and competed at that level - now fancy a RS horse doing that !!
He HACKS without issues
He can complete a XC course
He can complete a SJ course
Yes he kicks if another horse gets to close to his behind but only in CONFINED SPACES and NOT in the PADDOCK

I joined this forum because I thought I would get some good sound advice - I would like to say a huge thank you to those of you who have answered this thread with such advice. But for those of you who seem to be just looking down your noses at the horse I am about to buy because he is from a riding school - then get over yourselves ladies !! A privately bought horse is no less likely to have issues than a RS horse and there is not one of you out there that can prove it - no matter how much you would like to. And as for using the forum to have a go at each other - well, I'm glad I'm out of it.

Unless I've missed something I really don't see how this response is warranted? I don't think anyone has looked down their noses at the horse you're about to buy, just merely suggested things to watch out for or issues you may run into on your request! At the end of the day there's a risk attached to buying ANY horse. A girl I once knew spent years saving for a horse, was finally in the position to buy, found the horse of her dreams and 2 weeks later had to have him shot after a bad slip/fall in the field. You can only minimise risk...the rest quite frankly is down to luck.

 

[Orca]

I can understand op eventually becoming defensive. There's helpful advice and then there's hammering home a point which had already been made several times over. I'm sure most of us know the excitement of buying our first and can imagine how deflating it would be to have a horse or worse, the idea of a type of horse pulled apart.

OP, I think you're making a good choice of first horse. My first, a cob, had worked hard his entire life and continued doing so until his 30's with barely a creak. Another family horse was lightly used and young when she came to us and had to be pts shortly after because of the acute onset of a devastating condition. In fact, most people who have had horses for a long time will have had the unfortunate experience of one breaking - and most of those will not be RS horses! So, it can go wrong or right either way (as I'm sure you know!).

On a more positive note, buying a horse should be and more usually is a positive, enjoyable experience and overall, a horse you know well is likely to have less surprises in store than one you don't. I'd trust a year spent with a horse over a 5 stage vetting, personally ��

 

[Auslander]

I know the riding school in question very well - I used to teach there. It's one of the good ones. The horses are far from overworked, have a life filled with variety, and are well managed and well ridden. The owner is someone I respect enormously, and her staff, certainly when I was freelancing there, were super.
I'd have no hesitation in buyng a horse from there to do the job that Dougal wants hers to do. I've also seen some very nice horses go through that yard who all went on to competitive homes. The owner appears to be trying to find good private homes for the horses, and I think that's very commendable, after they have given her good service over the years.
Best of luck Dougal - I hope you have many happy years with your new boy