Dirty stopper, any experience s?

[Luck of the devil]

Does anyone have experience s/success stories with dirty stoppers? As in a last second brake (literally nearly taking off then just saying no)
Horse in mind is a 16.2 tb in her 20s(has been passed fit by vet etc) who following another horse will jump anything but a course on her own is very hit and miss. It isn't at any particular fence or filler or going away from other horses etc. I have only had her a few months and don't know how much she has done and I am at my wits end. Single fences she flies over 1.10m but in a course of 80s she stops. I could have a clear round then go straight back in over the same height and not be able to get over a single fence first time round! I have had other riders on her (my trainers included) and the general consensus is that she is a dirty littler *******!
So do I give up and go dressage (she isnt mine, on loan for the summer in exchange for making her saleable) or is there any chance for her?

 

[be positive]

I think as she is in her 20s that she is either set in her ways or has an underlying problem that makes her less willing than she may be if she were younger.

I find it rather sad that she is being expected to jump in order to sell, why not help her find a low key hacking/ schooling home where she only has to jump now and again, she is hardly likely to be bought as a competition horse at her age anyway so let her be what she wants to be and give her the benefit of the doubt, she may be fit but more than likely is feeling her age at times or in some way whatever the vet says.

 

[Micky]

Think I'd be inclined to happy hack her from now on...in her 20's is settling down time

 

[Luck of the devil]

Thanks for your replies.
As said vet has already passed her as fit for purpose (low jumping and schooling) but yes I do take on board what you are saying and feeling her age, however from what the pwner has told me, this has gone on for many years but didn't bother her as she was used primarily as a hack and didn't jump often.
I should have made it clearer but jumping is not necessary for her selling, she was out of work for 6 mths (pregnant owner, not injured or anything) and owner just wants her sold. She doesn't care about price, good home is the most important thing and I am just bringing the horse back into work for her.

 

[Tangaroo]

Yes, i owned a dirty stopper.(The bay in my sig). He would go to take off, put back down again and then drop a shoulder and throw me straight onto the fence! He only ever did it show jumping and we discovered he was overfaced as a youngster. I kept him for 4 yrs and he took me to the Grassroots champs at Badminton. (Did it in the warm up there!). Eventually i totally lost my confidence in him and i would sit outside the SJ ring thinking 'this is either going to go well or its going to bloody hurt!' That is no way to feel when competing i assure you.
The fun went out of competing altogether with him and i sold him to a fantastic home, a pony club girl who i knew and i was totally honest about him. (People actually told them not to buy him!) They still have him and he hasnt changed but i think she is young enough to deal with the confidence issue.

 

[Luck of the devil]

Ok thanks for that! Thats exactly how she stops except I haven't hit the deck yet(my instructor did! ). So probably not going to improve much at this stage, I guessed as much. That's ok though, I don't think owner cares what she ends up doing as long as she goes to a 5* home!

 

[Orangehorse]

Yes I had one too. That was a mare and unless she was 100% right she would stop, even out hunting. She would never give the rider anything. She could jump a clear round and go in to the jump off and stop at the first fence!


Needless to say, she wasn't one of my favourite ever horses!

 

[Luck of the devil]

Yes I had one too. That was a mare and unless she was 100% right she would stop, even out hunting. She would never give the rider anything. She could jump a clear round and go in to the jump off and stop at the first fence!


Needless to say, she wasn't one of my favourite ever horses!

Yes this mare isn't one I would buy given the chance....

 

[chestnut cob]

Does she hack and school on the flat nicely? Is she a nice person generally? At her age, I doubt anyone considering buying her would expect her to jump. It's sad that a horse of that age is being sold on, but the situation is what it is. I wouldn't bother with the jumping and would just make sure she's hacking and schooling well, then if the owner is insistent on selling, market her as a happy hack for a bit of low key DR.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

My mare was exactly like this to jump, she too would take off with her front end and then twirl round and bog off but other times jump brilliantly! With her it was mostly we think down to arthritis in her fetlocks which obviously must have hurt or at least twinged on landing, which was only discovered by x-ray. She wasn't x-rayed for the jumping and was totally sound when asked to jump, so sometimes there can be a problem even when the horse is sound, fit and well.

For the record Doodle was x-rayed at around 15/16 years old and is 21 now and still sound with careful management, we just don't jump! I'd echo the others and say stick to what she likes doing, you've not said what sort of horse she is but there is plenty to do without jumping, could she do some veteran showing? As with the qualifier routes these days if she does well at this it could help boost her saleability.

x x

 

[Dizzle]

My old TB! He was 'interesting', he hurdled when racing and had an awful technique so I think it stemmed from there, some days he would refuse to even walk over a pole on the ground there was NOTHING you could do to change his mind, beating, bribery or following another horse just wouldn't work.

The only time I got him jumping fairly happily was with my old YO giving me 2-3 lessons a week jumping over the same set of jumps, he proved himself a careful and scopey jumper but he go over a 1m10 fence then through a hissy at a 60cm course.

When he was rehomed I had told them about his jumping, they started him off with trotting poles, day one and two he was fine, day three he trotted up to them and slammed on the brakes and dropped a shoulder, they said they'd never seen anything like it, no rhyme nor reason to it.

I spent lots of time and money on saddle, physio, farrier and no real issues ever came up, it was just his nature, if he wasn't sure he wouldn't do it and he's the only horse i have ever ridden that wouldn't step over from a standstill.

If he was going to jump he would and when he did he was amazing, he'd lock on, prick his ears, collect up and ping but if he didn't want to do it, you just couldn't make him.

ETA: He was like this jumping before I got him and with other riders, in fact most people didn't believe what he was like until the sat on him or saw him in full action and I had plenty far more experienced people than me sit on him.

 

[Clare85]

If the mare is fine jumping single fences or in straight lines, but not round courses then I would say there is probably some sort if issue making twists/turns uncomfortable/painful and she's looking after herself by stopping. To be expected at the age of 20 to be fair, especially if she's not really been used for that type of work up until now. Poor girl, can the owner just not sell her as a hack?

 

[khalswitz]

My boy used to be a horrific dirty stopper (think front fee toff the ground to jump then throwing his front end down at an angle to tip me off the front).

We spent ages working away and nothing really improved - he got confidence at home but out and about would stop at 60cm when jumping 80cm quit happily at home.

Whole problem was solved for us by a change in saddle for me (my legs now much more secure) and a change of bit for him (back to a snaffle). I have less control between fences, but he is happy to jump (jumped scary arrowheads and corners that we built in the school the other day, which would never have been an option before).

For him, it was a sign he wasn't happy.

 

[paddi22]

If the mare is fine jumping single fences or in straight lines, but not round courses then I would say there is probably some sort if issue making twists/turns uncomfortable/painful and she's looking after herself by stopping. To be expected at the age of 20 to be fair, especially if she's not really been used for that type of work up until now. Poor girl, can the owner just not sell her as a hack?

completely agree with this. I had a horse who would sail over any size fence but struggled on courses and it turned out it was due to arthritis in the hocks. If this horse is 20, then its an ingrained habit that isn't going to change, or else its a physical issue.

 

[twiggy2]

pain, fear, lack of confidence from rider, not being able to see a stride for herself and rider not setting her up-I really don't think horses stop a fences just to p**s us off

 

[CSP]

I had a horse who I rode for a friend for a while and he used to put in 'dirty stops'. He was only 9, was sound, the vet was happy with him and he had had all of the normal checks done (saddle, back, physio, teeth etc.)

I decided to do a test though and gave him some bute for a couple of days. Low and behold he jumped everything in sight, whether it was a filler, in a straight line, off a corner, was a spread etc. etc. He was like a different horse.

For him, it obviously was a pain issue (perhaps muscular?) and my friend decided to just stick to dressage (he did move beautifully too which was good).

 

[icestationzebra]

So the vet has passed her for low level schooling and jumping and you are putting her at 1.10 fences. Not very fair is it?

 

[siennamum]

Poor old bird. If she is stopping, then at her age it should be her perogative to not have to jump any more. No point trying to analyse why, even if you/your instructor make her jump, there's no guarantee a new person wouldn't have the same problem.
She will clearly pop the odd fence, if she is good in all other ways and has to be sold then that is all that needs to be said, she's hardly going to be going competing is she.

 

[ester]

how much in 20s? There is a big difference between a 20 yo/25 yo/28 yo tb IMO, that and the older they are the harder it often is for them to come back from a break.

Essentially it is either pain related and therefore you aren't going to change without treatment or how she is in which case you also aren't likely to change it. I'm not sure an aged TB who has had a break from work needs to be jumping much regardless and def not 1.10m

 

[mirage]

Knobberpony is a dirty stopper.We were at a PC rally today and she screeched to a halt all the way around the Working Hunter,15 minutes later she flew around the same course like a rocket,jumping everything.There is no rhyme or reason to it.We've talked to people who taught her in her younger days and they all say 'fabulous pony,but by God she teaches her jockeys to have a good seat,her speciality is slamming on the brakes and sending the child flying'.She is 24 now and I don't think she'll ever change,and both my girls have learnt to stay on board when she stops.It is so frustrating though.

 

[Bestdogdash]

'Getting her ready to sell' - in her 20's. Good grief. I am sorry but I find that somewhat greedy, and very very distasteful.

 

[Luck of the devil]

'Getting her ready to sell' - in her 20's. Good grief. I am sorry but I find that somewhat greedy, and very very distasteful.

Well I'm sorry to offend you with the fact that peoples circumstances can change and they may have to give up their (much beloved) horse. It is not the owners fault that she went through a difficult pregnancy and ended up with a gorgeous little boy who unfortunately has special needs and she no longer has the time to care for a horse. I am not the owner nor am I a dealer - just someone helping out a family friend.
I will put the mare on a bute trial for the next few weeks just to check that the vet didnt miss anything during his workup on her but tbh I don't think it will make a difference as she has been this way as long as anyone can remember(made was bred locally and has always stayed in this area). If it is not pain related and she does not improve her jumping ( as the general consensus on here is that probably will not) she will be sold/gifted as a happy hacker, as I mentioned owner not concerned with price as long as she goes to a 5*home.
ETA for those that asked she is 22.

 

[Fides]

Be aware that a Bute trial doesn't work with SI problems as the pain can be that severe that Bute doesn't work.

 

[AmyMay]

If she was bred locally then there is every chance that the breeders would be able to offer her a final home.

 

[Luck of the devil]

Be aware that a Bute trial doesn't work with SI problems as the pain can be that severe that Bute doesn't work.

I didn't know that so thanks! If bute doesn't affect her I may get the vet back for another workup just to be extra sure.
And amymay that's actually not a bad idea, I'll check them out tomorrow and see if they would be approachable about something like that (don't know them personally).

 

[MileAMinute]

Thanks for your replies.
As said vet has already passed her as fit for purpose (low jumping and schooling)

Fences of 1.10m are hardly low jumping.

 

[Moomin1]

Perhaps it would be a good idea to ask the vet for what reason they feel the horse should stick to 'low jumping' and what sort of levels they are talking about?

Nothing worse than seeing people blatantly ignore when their horse has a lameness/soundness issue and continue riding/pushing them beyond what they can physically do.

 

[Leo Walker]

Shes in her 20's I cant imagine a buyer will want a 1m10 horse! My boy is a happy hacker. He is a pig in the school. Shouldnt be due to physical issues as he had a full work up about 8 months aog, but I reckon it probably is even though nothing was found! He is an AMAZING happy hack! Bombproof but not a total plod. Interested in everything and just an all round joy to ride out. I would, and have let my non riding OH take him for a pootle up the track and back having explained riding along the lines of car driving

I managed to buy him as his owner picked me out of a huge list of people interested in him. I broke my hand 2 weeks ago and advertised for someone to ride him, I had literally hundreds of messages. A good, safe hack is worth a LOT more than a good jumper when your horse is late teens or above.

Your trying to do the right thng, but your going about it the wrong way! Even if the horse was jumping 1m tracks with no competition history the market isnt great! But a safe happy hack has a market all day long! And if its 100% to handle in all situations then you can add a premium. So in you shoes I'd be making sure the horse is 100% box/shoe/clip and as bombproof safe hacking as I could get it

 

[Luck of the devil]

Fences of 1.10m are hardly low jumping.

To my vet it is. He treats the likes of Cian o Conners jumpers etc. Please don't think I am going against my vets advice and whipping an injured/lame horse over fences it is not able for. As I have already said the vet gave this mare a clean bill of health and was cleared for the height jumped.
As I have said I will be trying a bute trial and possibly getting the vet to check her again and if the issue is not pain related and doesn't improve she will be sold/gifted as a happy hacker. I spoke to the owner last night after reading your answers to me and she said try bute,vet and if it is pain related that may not improve (arthritics/SI) PTS. She understands that this mare doesn't owe her anything and is not simply trying to avoid the decision to pts while making a quick buck.
ETA I am not intending to sell her as a 1.10m jumper or anything. I have been trying to persuade her round courses of 70-80cm but she has no rhyme or reason (that we+vet can see!) to her stops. I am simply trying to see if she could be sold as a alrounder (I.e. can jump) or just as a hacker.

 

[AmyMay]

Please stop trying to jump her. Either sell her as a quiet hack or a companion. A 22 year old horse does not need to be jumping big tracks. She's telling you she's not interested. And whilst she may be fit and well according to your vet - she's quite clearly saying 'no thanks'.