Disciplining the horse

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Amaretto

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Last night I was kicked as I tried to lift a youngster's hoof, who is well used to having it done. I'm not hurt, just got a big bruise on my elbow.

How would you have disciplined the horse directly afterwards?
 
I've have yelled and given him a good smack. Its different if they don't know any better but once they've learnt then there is no excuse. My girl used to be really bad with her back feet, but once she'd learnt how to pick them up she was told off if she tried to take the piss.
 
if it had kicked me i would have whacked it or kicked it back but it depends if it did it on purpose or not and there's probably some kind of hippy dippy way you're supposed to deal with it
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despite thinking i'm overly fussy and gentle with horses, if my horse kicked me, my immediate reaction would be to hit/kick him back.

whilst i do think horses should be treated gently etc, i can't imagine in the 'horse world' they'd be allowed to do that to a more dominant horse without some repercussion.

i think any discipline needs to be immediate though, that's the key. even if you're just saying 'no'. they need to have an immediate consequence, instead of brewing up a slap, then delivering 10 seconds later.
 
I worked with a pony who would not pick his back feet up, he used to spin, squash etc. Whatever he did i just followed his leg around until he stood and let me pick it up, or even touch it. Any time he tried to kick me he got a slap on the bum and a firm 'no' though, that's not acceptable for a horse that knows better. It was never a hard slap, probably wouldn't have hurt a human since i'm quite feeble at the best of times, but the surprise and the noise made sure he knew that kicking was not going to be tolerated. After a few weeks he was pretty much perfect (at least for me) so can't have done too much wrong. And we had a very close bond, so he wasn't scared of me. Sometimes a smack can reflect what they would get if they kicked someone in a higher pecking order in the field.
 
I agree, kick the horse back, but it has to be instantly. We had a very cheeky chap at out yard that used to bite all the time, as soon as he done it we pinched him, he took that as a bite back and he soon stopped doing it.
 
A very firm wack under the belly and said NO and gone for the hoof again, but it needs to be done straight away, no point rolling around nursing your wounds and then going back to the horse a minute later and telling them off, because they don't link it with the action they did (which people often do) which never disiplines a horse.

I was once kicked my a younster when it was eating, a nasty kick and he knew better, I kicked straight back, might of looked rather agressive on my part but I can tell you he never did it again, why because he wouldnt dare.

Thats what makes youngsters so intresting, they try things on and see what they can get away with, its part of their learning and horses in a heard would soon put them right, so we also have to, even if it means getting a swift boot in the side.
 
Yes and firm smack and a no. Kicking is a potentially fatal misdemeanor and on the grand scheme of things a smack to a horse is nothing compared to the blows they inflict upon each other.

There is a time and a place for nicely nicely - I dont think this is it!!
 
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if it had kicked me i would have whacked it or kicked it back but it depends if it did it on purpose or not and there's probably some kind of hippy dippy way you're supposed to deal with it
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Well I kicked him back and was sharply told off by a fellow livery, as it was done on purpose. He is pushing the boundaries at the moment.
 
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if it had kicked me i would have whacked it or kicked it back but it depends if it did it on purpose or not and there's probably some kind of hippy dippy way you're supposed to deal with it
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Well I kicked him back and was sharply told off by a fellow livery, as it was done on purpose. He is pushing the boundaries at the moment.

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Horses double barrel each other in the fields, yes it does looking rather shocking for someone to see someone kicking a horse but if there is good reason for it, in which case this was, then really the other liveries should look the other way if they don't want to see something that will upset them, harsh but once nipped in the bud, is actually less cruel than forever battling and shouting/arguing with a horse for the rest of its life every time they stick there ears back and threaten to kick out, its part of learning and trust me if you don't do it, a good furrier will set them straight.....and its before it comes to this stage that is has to be sorted, because it puts horses off been shod which is something you don't want.

So explain that to tree hugging livery person next time they shout at you.
 
Would have been told no and given a hard boot back - Chancer had one this weekend - raised a leg to the freezemark lady - didn't kick but threatened to. Hence told no and a boot from me - I won't have a horse even think about kicking out.

With mine a boot from me is more effective as they are big thick skinned beasts and a hand slap only hurts me.

It must, however, been done instantly so they realise why they have received a telling off.

Farra once threatened a kick, got a boot from me and a big telling off, and has not lifted a leg since.

Ignore the livery, they were not the one on the end of the kick. Ditto if they bite - they receive a quick boot or hard elbow in return.
 
Kicking a horse looks a bit harsh but tbh i think it's more of a shock to the horse than anything and its what they do to each other. next time ask the livery what they suggest you should do if they are so knowledgable. I don't agree with unnecessary violence towards horses but they need to learn boundries young because without manners they are dangerous and if they learn young then they don't end up beaten up later on for hurting people
 
If a horse had kicked me deliberately, then I would have probably done the first thing that came to mind - my reaction most likely instinctive rather than thinking 'hmm, what shall I do?'.

This would have been both verbal and physical knowing me! So would have been loud scary voice shouting (most likely growling and a few choice words!) and most likely a smack or kick back.
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Kicking a horse looks a bit harsh but tbh i think it's more of a shock to the horse than anything and its what they do to each other. next time ask the livery what they suggest you should do if they are so knowledgable. I don't agree with unnecessary violence towards horses but they need to learn boundries young because without manners they are dangerous and if they learn young then they don't end up beaten up later on for hurting people

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He was immediately reprimanded with the kick and stern 'No'! I was told I should have shouted at him, so I said that other horses would not shout, they would kick him back to teach him some manners!
 
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Kicking a horse looks a bit harsh but tbh i think it's more of a shock to the horse than anything and its what they do to each other. next time ask the livery what they suggest you should do if they are so knowledgable. I don't agree with unnecessary violence towards horses but they need to learn boundries young because without manners they are dangerous and if they learn young then they don't end up beaten up later on for hurting people

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He was immediately reprimanded with the kick and stern 'No'! I was told I should have shouted at him, so I said that other horses would not shout, they would kick him back to teach him some manners!

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Well done, unless you were obviously beating the horse up or being cruel then i think people should mind their own business
 
I think you did the right thing - I'm sure you didn't hurt him, especially compared to how hard they sometimes kick each other in the field! Hopefully he will think twice about that next time! I've only been kicked once - a 2 year old show pony I was holding tried to double-barrel me (luckily only one hoof caught me). She got a massive slap, and all the way back to the lorry I was muttering evil things at her lol. She obviously didn't understand a word but it made me feel better!
 
I don't do kicking, and the disciplinary action I took would depend on the circumstances.
If he was relatively unhandled, etc, I may be more forgiving.
If I was confident he was just being a brat, I'd have said 'no' in a stern, but not shouty voice, and smacked him with my hand.
However, when he did pick it up, I would praise him lavishly. I find that people often forget to praise horses for the absence of naughtiness.
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Horses do 'shout' at each other - have you never heard them squealing when another horse gets too close, gets teeth/feet happy? I would have used my voice in this instance, a 'No' followed by picking the foot up again, holding it and then putting it down with a 'good boy'.
 
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I don't do kicking, and the disciplinary action I took would depend on the circumstances.
If he was relatively unhandled, etc, I may be more forgiving.
If I was confident he was just being a brat, I'd have said 'no' in a stern, but not shouty voice, and smacked him with my hand.
However, when he did pick it up, I would praise him lavishly. I find that people often forget to praise horses for the absence of naughtiness.
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I am a big believer in positive reinforcement too - he is praised when it is appropriate to do so, so he understands what is expected of him. He understands that he has to have his feet picked up and kicked me, so he was reprimanded. I always try to be consistent to ensure he understands my rules and adheres to them. I was made to feel like I was cruel, when I was trying to show him that what he had done was wrong.
 
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Horses do 'shout' at each other - have you never heard them squealing when another horse gets too close, gets teeth/feet happy? I would have used my voice in this instance, a 'No' followed by picking the foot up again, holding it and then putting it down with a 'good boy'.

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Yes, their version of shouting is done in a completely different tone that a human shout and I do not feel in this instance that he would have understood that it is totally unnacceptable to kick out at me, if I had purely told him off.
 
Never mind Amaretto.
In a few years, when you have him behaving perfectly, after having disciplined and handled him carefully since he was young, you will have the joy of these same people telling;
'You're so lucky, your horse is so well behaved'.

As if luck had anything to do with it!
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PS Devil, I sound bitter, don't I?
 
I think most horses know exactly what a sharp 'no' from a human means - I have dealt with hundreds of horses coming through the yard, and can't think of any off hand who don't appear to know what is intended from a 'NO'.
 
I think my girl has thrown her toys out the pram and kicked out twice in the time I've owned her, once when I was clipping her, and once when I jabbed her in the belly with my elbow by accident. I kicked her back both times. Felt guilty but it has to be done.
 
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I think most horses know exactly what a sharp 'no' from a human means - I have dealt with hundreds of horses coming through the yard, and can't think of any off hand who don't appear to know what is intended from a 'NO'.

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I agree completley - not saying that they don't understand 'No' , but would it actually make them think "I'd better not do that again"? 'No', in most cases is sufficient, but where the behaviour is potentially dangerous such as kicking/biting, is this enough? What do others think?
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With the majority of them, yes. There are some, where the behaviour in ingrained, where it doesn't, but I would say, of the young horses we broke in / started handling, most tried kicking / biting, and in 85% vocal aids were all that was needed to stop the behaviour - certainly if it was the first time, I would use voice alone (can't see original post at themo, but I think you said he is normally good, so this was a first offence?) I can honestly say I have never kicked a horse back - there are far too many delicate things in the leg for me to risk it - I have slapped down the shoulder tho where voice doesn't work, and I have bitten horses back when they are habitual nasty biters.
 
There is a little saying about getting a horse to work something like
ask - tell - demand?

Maybe try the 'No' and re-picking up as others have suggested first to 'ask' him to behave, with praise if he does. You might find that is all that is needed.

If it doesn't work and he tries to kick again you can 'escalate' to a scarier voice/slap or similar to 'tell' him to behave, again, with praise if he does.

And so on...

Obviously is some situations (e.g. taking off towards a road) you don't have time for this. But when you do it can keep things as calm as possible and you won't feel as guilty if you do end up getting physical because you've given him a chance to understand and behave first.
 
I'm afraid I am a terrible owner and on the rare occasions Monty threatens to kick, I pinch him on his belly. It is the only thing he really doesn't like, a slap usually hurts me more than him.

There is no point just saying no since, after 28 years of life, he knows that he's not meant to do it.......which is exactly why he does it!
 
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