Disclosure Agreement (?)

digitalangel

digitalangel

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Has anyone been asked to sign one of these before?

Ive been sent one today but a potential buyer, it ran to two pages and basically ran through everything to do with the horse, from why he has a straggly mane by his poll and wether he would be strong in a field, what he was like with farm machinery and what he was like in a snaffle ( er he was tried in a hanging cheek )

Basically it went on to declare me to say that the horse was suitable for their daughter ( who ive never met ) to do x y and z with and that i must disclose full vet records at *any* time in the reasonable future, for any reason.

I have NOTHING to hide with this horse and have sent them scans on his passport, a note from my vet saying the horse is sound and open to vetting, his poast vet cert, his previous owners details and maybe even the kitchen sink!

Anyway i refused to sign the document! Is this more common practice now? ive not sold a horse for years...
 
If I was asked to sign one of these, I'd run a mile! You are a private seller at the end of the day, not some business selling electrical appliances!

Are they very experienced people? :-/ I would've thought someone has told them that it's the done thing and they've just gone along with the idea. In my experience, I've never come across such agreements when it comes to buying/selling! I know the BHS loan template states (or used to anyway) that you should outline x, y and z- including any quirks/ways in which you'd like the horse managed etc... but that's loan, not sale. Buyer beware and all that.

In saying that, it also states at the bottom that horse riding and care carry their own risks and that the owner will not be held accountable for injury- or something along those lines anyway.

I would not be signing it at all. It leaves the door open for a can of worms.

Even if your horse has been 100% in all ways in all the time you've had him, what if that one day, for no apparent reason other than the fact he's a living creature with his own brain, something spooks him and he runs a mile? They could then go back to you and to be honest, it just seems like more trouble than it's worth.

If they are like this having tried him and before they've even bought him, imagine what they could potentially be like if something did go wrong and they had your name on the dotted line.
Though, I don't think loan agreements/terms of sale etc are worth the paper they're written on in a lot of cases where private homes are concerned, certainly when no solicitor has looked at it in the first place.

Stick with your gut! Don't do it! :p

I know times are hard but I'd be looking for another buyer if this one spits their dummy out.
 
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Let them have acces to your vets notes showing nothing to hide, as for a disclosure... What the heck do they think they are buying.... Valegro!!!!!
Horse could injure itself on way to new home or when it gets there.
No don't take any notice, tell them vets notes ect and that's all... Take it or leave it..
 
Blimey, never heard of this before. Is one of the parents a solicitor?

I agree that you can give approval for them to contact your vets but as a private seller that is as far as I would go.
 
I wouldn't sign it and personally I'm trying to sell atm.
They can use it against you in court and sue you with a right solicitor because imagine that horse goes to new home they hop on it straight away and the daughter accidentally falls off, then it's down to you.
I would put them in contact with your vet and explain you are not a dealer and if they are not certain of the horse then they shouldn't buy!

And this is written by an owner that's just been miss sold a dangerous horse.
 
Difficult when I bought my ISH I was careful and wrote down a few things that would be a dealbreaker for me and asked the seller to sign and the owner of the BSJ equestrian centre where we was kept to witness. Both signed and in the few days I was able to cope with him on my yard he pretty much covered most things on the list:( It's useful on for court action and can't give her any more than that.
 
I think what they need for their daughter is a bike, rather than a horse....:rolleyes:

Just because a horse has been fine with one owner...it may not be fine with the next....change in routine/feed/riding style.....anything and everything could upset it.

I wouldn't sign it.....
 
Thank goodness for that !! id never heard of this before and just about tearing my hair out today 14 emails from them so far... according to them its standard practice ? this is what they said

"The agreement I draw up was a layman version of contracts drawn up by Equine Legal Solutions and Vets and organisations recommend them in support of a vets certificate"

WTH?

No im not signing it but i did answer the questions in it to the best of my ability. They didnt strike me as particularly novicey but have some VERY strange ideas about buying horses and keep likening it to buying a car!!! They have even asked me to use my Dutch boyfriend to contact the breeder to make sure ' theres no claim on him' !!!

BTW this is a 4k horse, not a 25k superstar!!! ive gone very far out of my way to get them x info and y documentation but its all not good enough. Then they said i couldnt be the owner because my name isnt in the passport - so then i was on the phone to Defra trying to sort that out! ( i was right, passport isnt proof of ownership, but you must have your name in passport when bought within 30 days which i didnt know, see other thread )

I have another lady who is practically biting my arm off for him! These buyers came first so i gave them first choice, but im regretting my decision now!!!
 
As a seller I've made a buyer sign a receipt stating exactly what the horse has been known to do, so they can't claim they weren't warned!

During vettings these days, the vet asks about vices and makes the seller sign a disclosure form - had that both when buying and selling recently.

I always ask for a copy of the full vet history when buying.
 
Stay WELL away from this. They will simply use it to sue you if they think there is a hair out of place on the horse! It's almost like they want to use you as an insurance policy!
 
uh oh. should i not have answered the questions at all? i outright said i will not sign it, but i answered all the questions in writing to the best of my knowledge and did not declare to say the horse is suitable for her daughter etc.

im wondering if i should pull out now? i'm a a bit spooked.
 
I would run a mile. In fact more than a mile. No private seller in their right mind would sign that. And they clearly haven't understood that buying a horse is a risk, riding a horse is a risk and a seller who isn't guaranteeing forever risk free horse and riding it isn't dodgy but just someone who understands that this isn't a guarantee you can give with a horse ESP when it's not a professional business.

I'm married to a lawyer but he wouldn't dreeeeaaammm of anything like that.

It's not standard. It's a little bit nuts. Run awaaaaaaayyy!!
 
Yeah. after much soul searching ive decided to let them know they cant buy him. But i can just see the whole thing being dragged out and while her daughter rode him beautifully, the parents have really put me off. It was all, we need proof of x y and z.. and the wording of the document was frankly, terrifying.

Ho Hum! i guess the other lady will be over the moon!
 
I'm another one that would run for the hills. I would say that although you can to the best of your knowledge say the horse is fine, you haven't seen the daughter ride, and can't guarantee what he would be like in someone elses hands. Sell to the other lady.
It just sounds like they are setting it up for a court case.
 
Definitly offer it to the other woman. In my book it doesnt matter who comes or rings first its who stumps up the cash gets the horse(providing they are the right home of course!).
 
digitalangel said:
Thank goodness for that !! id never heard of this before and just about tearing my hair out today 14 emails from them so far... according to them its standard practice ? this is what they said

"The agreement I draw up was a layman version of contracts drawn up by Equine Legal Solutions and Vets and organisations recommend them in support of a vets certificate"
Click to expand...

This is what happens when laypeople (i.e. non-lawyers) try to act like lawyers for themselves. Although there is no such thing in law as a "layman version of contracts" - a contract is either legally binding in law, or it is not.

I've never heard of this for buying a 4k horse. Contract law will apply to you but sale of goods legislation will not, unless you are selling in the course of business. I could perhaps understand it for buying a 100k horse, or buying a hotel, or something commercial, but I suggest you tell them to take a running jump. You just know they are going to be hassle the first time the horse spooks and little Mandy falls off and bruises her knee. Or if the horse has the temerity to refuse a jump or something. Even the 14 emails is too much to put up with. Pull out of the sale - you haven't got a contract until you have agreement on all main points.
 
Very good advice, and i have indeed pulled out. The horse is lovely, and im sure he will do fine with the other lady. I just feel for the daughter who rode him so well, and has now missed an opportunity thanks to her parents!

I guess as people are, they have been ' burned' before and it happens and its sad. Hell, its happened to me too. But throwing all this legalese into the mix makes them harder to deal with and its really made me feel like im guilty or something, or im trying to hide something which i havent!

Thing is, had they asked me all that without a Disclosure Agreement, i would have been happy to answer, but its the way theyve gone about it like i have to somehow say he will never windsuck or be strong in a field and jump to 1m20 ( hes capable but never jumped a course at that height! ) or my a*se is hung out to dry and ill be dragged through the courts because the horse doesnt meet their expectations!

Not only that but they argued for the tack to be thrown in for free, which i ended up relenting because id rather it go with him than not, but they didnt want to pay even a token amount.

i am NEVER selling another horse again. i dont know how dealers do it!!!
 
I have put something similar on Breeders Forum with regard to a standard Spanish contract for sale of horses, which includes vendor responsible for horse for ten days after sale - WHAT? 3 year old in transit for 700kms at my risk?

If any vices show during first 6 months vendor will refund purchase price or take horse back. NO way. Think of the damage that could be done to an unbacked 3 year old in the wrong hands.

I have walked away from this sale.
 
i do find it interesting how the europeans do it. In Holland at least if they horse passes the buyer pays, if the horse fails the seller pays!
 
i have thought about it.... but dont want to keep it dragging out. Maybe they will get the idea when they realise noone wants to a sell a horse to them. So theyve now accused me of hiding something. this makes me sad because im not. i replied very politely and said i was sorry but i couldnt risk it.
 
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