Tnavas
Well-Known Member
How long would you say this horse has been under saddle?
Disgraceful - Surely this horse is far too young?
- Thread starter Jsye
- Start date
julie111
Well-Known Member
Well I beg it differ, doing work like that with a 2/3 yo is detrimental to its long term well being no matter how good/experienced the rider is!
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
I see my efforts at thwarting this thread has gone awry...
I'm sure time will tell if this horse will break down in three months or go on to live a lifestyle your gran in a nursing home would envy. No owner or trainer would see a horse of this quality break down at 6 at this level, that happens mainly at the lower echelons if anyone cares to discern the difference.
However, I do empathise with the concern, as, we do see a lot of what happens to these super-Equids bound for stardom, not ALL, might I add. Not all. It is right we should show concern, it shows that we care as a nation and not many can deny the truth behind some circles of competition.
I think we do need to listen to the people here, who have trodden this path, and can tell us that this horse is being treated with five star care.
Instead of saying, it just shouldn't be so, perhaps we could ask how is it done and how does it prepare the horse? I'm sure we would get much further than going over the same old ground each time a post like this appears.
I'm sure time will tell if this horse will break down in three months or go on to live a lifestyle your gran in a nursing home would envy. No owner or trainer would see a horse of this quality break down at 6 at this level, that happens mainly at the lower echelons if anyone cares to discern the difference.
However, I do empathise with the concern, as, we do see a lot of what happens to these super-Equids bound for stardom, not ALL, might I add. Not all. It is right we should show concern, it shows that we care as a nation and not many can deny the truth behind some circles of competition.
I think we do need to listen to the people here, who have trodden this path, and can tell us that this horse is being treated with five star care.
Instead of saying, it just shouldn't be so, perhaps we could ask how is it done and how does it prepare the horse? I'm sure we would get much further than going over the same old ground each time a post like this appears.
oldie48
Well-Known Member
Yes, the paces he showed quite naturally were just like the paces he showed under saddle. Beautiful. As Cortez implied this is how he moves, nothing forced just natural athleticism and no, I couldn't keep up with him in walk, far too old and creaky! A joy to watch. He's built for dressage, I'm built for pushing a trolley round Sainsburys.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
How long would you say this horse has been under saddle?
I posted this to show that some horses carry themselves well regardless of how long they have been broken.
In the above photo the horse has been under saddle for less than three weeks - from this photo she sold within 3 days.
She is a first cross warmblood, she is naturally uphill and offer this outline from day one. She's rising 5 in this picture
Four Seasons
Well-Known Member
^^^ This! Instead of blurting non-sense, people should first investigate in how horses like Talegro are broken in, how long it takes, what goes on with the preparation. Young horses like these have special schedules and aren't ridden an hour every day, seven times a week, by a bog standard local competition rider.
And to the pic above, we can't judge how long a horse have been backed by one picture?! We can take a good guess on a video, but pictures make stuff look better than that it is in reality or on video.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
That is my point, you can't tell! The colt may very well only been under saddle a few days/weeks - or possibly months so we can't get up in arms over the video.
In general its advisable to leave any horse as long as possible so that they are mentally and physically able to cope with the work.
Go on to USA forums and their horses are constantly having hocks injected at crazy ages of 5! This is the result not of being backed too early but being schooled to determindly in a more advanced frame. They have to use their hocks to such a degree that damage results.
In the second video of the colt working at home he wasn't that exciting to look at in his action - he was behind the vertical with a short neck - long!!! and low is what he should be doing and yes even the WB's with naturally up in front build can achieve this.
Gingerwitch
Well-Known Member
I just wonder if this is what TWH looked like in years gone by before it got americanised ?
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Also, lets remember the reason we have our horses.
Some for the sheer pleasure of being in the presence of such a being.
Some for the pleasure of riding and showing off their beloved steed.
Some enjoy doing all sorts of fun things and maybe wining a few things!
Some are bred for the scrutiny of the competition circuit, to be the best, to excel and to dominate their world.
What you cannot deny, is the fact that we breed horses to ride. That's right... to ride. Have fun with or to stun judges with spectacular presence. Each horse needs to be conditioned to cope with the future so very differently than its cousins. The colt is a prospect as a dressage stallion soon (it has probably sired some select progeny already) and so needs to show off it's athleticism in the field in order to attract breeders.
It is no different to a stallion who is bred for the village show. This stallion might be shown in-hand at three... never ridden but already has a progeny list as long as his lunge-line... and that is great if his temperament as a show pony is excellent. There will be lots of gorgeous little show ponies out there, carrying children gaily around like perfect gents.
If I were a breeder... I need to see the horse I want to breed from for sure! I'd want to get in there early, or else it'll get expensive!!! I need my wits about me and these are the crucial years.
Some for the sheer pleasure of being in the presence of such a being.
Some for the pleasure of riding and showing off their beloved steed.
Some enjoy doing all sorts of fun things and maybe wining a few things!
Some are bred for the scrutiny of the competition circuit, to be the best, to excel and to dominate their world.
What you cannot deny, is the fact that we breed horses to ride. That's right... to ride. Have fun with or to stun judges with spectacular presence. Each horse needs to be conditioned to cope with the future so very differently than its cousins. The colt is a prospect as a dressage stallion soon (it has probably sired some select progeny already) and so needs to show off it's athleticism in the field in order to attract breeders.
It is no different to a stallion who is bred for the village show. This stallion might be shown in-hand at three... never ridden but already has a progeny list as long as his lunge-line... and that is great if his temperament as a show pony is excellent. There will be lots of gorgeous little show ponies out there, carrying children gaily around like perfect gents.
If I were a breeder... I need to see the horse I want to breed from for sure! I'd want to get in there early, or else it'll get expensive!!! I need my wits about me and these are the crucial years.
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
You only have to google... they look normal.
Crugeran Celt
Well-Known Member
As of jan 2014, it is 3. Just as my horse, born in July 2006, is 8 now.
We have no idea what month it was born, therefore we go by The year
Whether you go by the year or not is completely irrelevant, if the horse was not born in January then it is still TWO!!!! Just because breeders decide that all horses turn another year older on 1st January doesn't make it true or right. Your horse will not be eight until July like mine will be 21 in JULY NOT JANUARY as she was born in JULY!!!! Do you do the same for yourself, are you a year older on the 1st of January each year??
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
^ like.
I think its stupid using January as a date a horse is born when its born, and if you don't know the exact date you can estimate roughly.
babymare
Well-Known Member
you guys can argue but personally i look to likes of carl hester and awe at his quiet way of bringing them on. And they go out x
xwench
Well-Known Member
I've watched a DVD this evening by Monty Roberts on lunging and long lining horses.
One of his models was a two year old, who only had a rider on him a few times...
One of his models was a two year old, who only had a rider on him a few times...
ILuvCowparsely
Well-Known Member
Explains why so many horses flood the market damaged.
To hear a vet say "there is nothing we can do his legs are shot he has done to much too soon" brings it home.
" sorry his tendons are over stretched he has done too much when he was growing|"
Would not send a kid out to do a mans work ,but sends a baby out to do a grown horse work does not make sense,
To hear a vet say "there is nothing we can do his legs are shot he has done to much too soon" brings it home.
" sorry his tendons are over stretched he has done too much when he was growing|"
Would not send a kid out to do a mans work ,but sends a baby out to do a grown horse work does not make sense,
only_me
Well-Known Member
Calm down, you are getting very worked up about this!!
I consider the horse 3 as I do not know what month of the year it was born, therefore I will use the year.
I consider my horse 8 due to his year of birth. His actual month of birth doesn't affect anything.
In fact, I feel this is the most accurate way as all affiliated competition societies (BE, BD, EI, DI, SJI, BS etc.) all use the Jan 1st of the year as age of horse.
Competitions do actually use age on Jan 1st as a way of creating age competitions for comps - Junior eventing is under 18 on the 1st of January. Depending on where your birthday falls, you can get an extra year in juniors.
Tnavas
Well-Known Member
As does the racing industry and all other countries in the Northern Hemisphere. In the Southern hemisphere the horses official birthdate is 1st August
Crugeran Celt - it is a very sensible way to unify all registrations.
Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
What's the point of the Monty DVD? The man broke racehorses for years. Guess they weren't
politcally correct models for a DVD.
As far as the double standards, well kind of like this video. Probably hundreds more available but this one is by ToTo out of a relation to Valegro. And I don't think it is a double standard. This is part of a business like it or not. If you don't want to start at 3 don't. Even if some horses don't do young horse classes doesn't mean they weren't started early. And starting one at 5 or 6 and doesn't gaurantee soundness. Especially those left to mature in a field. Or those who get way too fat, get confined to a dry lot and then go into work. So don't kid yourself on that one.
Talk about double standards, how about the video of the horse broke on the Continent. First time ridden bucks for 4 mins and clearly has no idea what's going on. Oh but how we marveled at the stickability of the rider. Now if I posted the same video of me starting babies this way I'd have the ISPCA at my door.
Terri
politcally correct models for a DVD.
As far as the double standards, well kind of like this video. Probably hundreds more available but this one is by ToTo out of a relation to Valegro. And I don't think it is a double standard. This is part of a business like it or not. If you don't want to start at 3 don't. Even if some horses don't do young horse classes doesn't mean they weren't started early. And starting one at 5 or 6 and doesn't gaurantee soundness. Especially those left to mature in a field. Or those who get way too fat, get confined to a dry lot and then go into work. So don't kid yourself on that one.
Talk about double standards, how about the video of the horse broke on the Continent. First time ridden bucks for 4 mins and clearly has no idea what's going on. Oh but how we marveled at the stickability of the rider. Now if I posted the same video of me starting babies this way I'd have the ISPCA at my door.
Terri
cptrayes
Well-Known Member
Horse and Hound Online is not one person. There are only double standards if the same people who admired the stickability of that rider are decrying the early breaking of this horse. I haven't checked all the posts, but I'd be surprised if they are.
Regarding the age, it is irrelevant to this discussion how horses are aged for eligibility for competition. A horse could have been born in December and be three by eligibility rules, but I don't think it would be sensible to call it a three year old or treat it like one.
This horse is two. I would not personally work a horse that young the way he is being worked in either video.
Regarding the age, it is irrelevant to this discussion how horses are aged for eligibility for competition. A horse could have been born in December and be three by eligibility rules, but I don't think it would be sensible to call it a three year old or treat it like one.
This horse is two. I would not personally work a horse that young the way he is being worked in either video.
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Equilibrium Ireland
Well-Known Member
They saw nothing wrong with the process of introduction to being ridden and he was 3. Again I'd rather see, not specifically this riding, sympathetic starting and straightline work rather than horses being overweight and then starting work. Metabolism changes around 3 to 4. And obviously not hard or continual work. But to each his own.
Terri
Terri
Goldenstar
Well-Known Member
I have one horse with American parents who could have ended up that world if he had been born in the US instead of holland .
He has a pretty extreme uphill conformation he moves when excited like a spider missing a few legs on speed , when he arrived he would stand in that silly stance they use with no prompting .
He has a very high natural head carriage and a lot of wawwww look at me presence .lucky escape Tatts .
fburton
Well-Known Member
Is this really true? How can you tell if a young horse is bored?
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
I thought I'd chuck my two pennyworth in......I don't think I can see anything particularly wrong. The horse is travelling nicely forward - the rider seems to be doing a reasonable job, theres no 'collection, - I think the horse just looks more advanced because of his natural movement and build. All its doing is walk, trot and canter - so what? I'm very impressed with his attitude to the big atmosphere - what a beautiful horse (he would be with a daddy like that!) I'm sure the people that are producing him know exactly what they're doing.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Lots of ways!
Casey76
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter what "system" you use to label the horses age; unless he actually was born in Jan or Feb, he is chronologically 2, and personaly I wouldn't sit on a horse that young.
Having said that, the rider was sympathetic, even if he couldn't quite keep up with the huge and unbalanced movement of the colt.
Having said that, the rider was sympathetic, even if he couldn't quite keep up with the huge and unbalanced movement of the colt.
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fburton
Well-Known Member
Such as? I'm genuinely interested to know.
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Well, this is probably subject for a whole new thread, and of course each horse is an individual - but with youngsters I've had (and some old ones too) boredom can manifest itself in a variety of ways. Sometimes its a change in the horse 'manners' - they can deteriorate, they can run around winding up the rest of the herd, its almost a surplus of energy or they can appear to start dismantling fencing, stables,etc etc. putting them in work can really help to settle them and give them something to do. I think I've said it on here before, but give 'em a job or they'll go self employed......
tallyho!
Following a strict mediterranean diet...
Chewing gum....
Hanging around street corners....
Wearing jeans around their ankles....
Tweeting all the time....
...mostly about how bored they are...
littleshetland
Well-Known Member
Oh yes, and this too....
Perfect_Pirouette
Well-Known Member
This
This is the way this horse naturally moves. The contact is a little short and tight sometimes for my liking, but perhaps the alternative would've been him pI$$ing off?! He is trotting and cantering around the school, as would most horses of his age be doing. If they were doing canter half passes and pirouettes then I could understand your point.