Disgraceful

WelshD said:
If its any consolation I believe both lost HOYS qualifications, The pony did also qualify at another show though so if they had membership of another society they may well still be at HOYS

I do feel a bit for the connections of the pony, they are decent people and it could be that they did not realise the problem, plenty of small ponies are given antihistamines primarily for itching or allergies (not sure why this particular pony was given it I'm not saying it has sweet itch or anything) and given a few days confined to a flimsy stable I can see why it may be given to a pony at a stay away show, it may be banned but I am one who would not think it would be on a banned list - that's no excuse for not checking but I would guess that's the reason why one punishment is more lenient than the other

The horse I think is an awful situation but again if they have (and I would say they definitely do) membership of other societies they will be back in the ring soon

In the great scheme of things not showing in NPS shows is not a big deal to some, there are plenty of other shows and that's why punishments like this are no real deterrent
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Unfortunately cetirizine is well known for it's main side-effect - drowsiness.
 
When the ROR dope tested the other year they had 3 positive tests. All 3 were produced horses and all 3 owners were fined - not the producers! The owners probably didn't know half of what was going on! And the producer gets away scot free!
 
I thought the antihistamine could easily be a mistake, and reading the owner's comments it seems that this pony was taken at the last minute (although it must have been entered?) and was given some antihistamine for a sting the day before. I can see how easily this could have happened, and that is why the penalty is much reduced.
 
It's a non-drowsy antihistamine but still a side effect for some.

I'm just a bit gobsmacked that anyone can be doing affiliated competion and administer medications the day before an event without seemingly thinking, let alone someone for whom it is their profession.
 
I was tested under SHB (GB) rules, Royal Shrewsbury HOY's qualifier class, not that I had any clue the authorities were on the ground and it was an interesting morning to say the least. Loads of entries in the catalogue including all the great and the good in the hunter world, there was no doubt the standard was going to be red hot. I was a little confused to see only a few in the lights and panic set in that my horse (a MW) was still on the truck, a quick text back to folks on the truck to get him ready quick.

There was even less in the middles than the lights, yet the horses were on the ground. The penny dropped when I was told to take the horse to a waiting vet in the collecting ring !

There were plenty of lorries that did not unload and non of the hunter classes were well supported. We didn't stay on the ground so no idea what happened later in the day or even if the vet was working for other societies.
 
tallyho! said:
Unfortunately cetirizine is well known for it's main side-effect - drowsiness.
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In humans yes but I'm not sure if there are any studies on equines. Certainly my pony was having 40 tablets a day at the height of his problems with no signs of drowsiness. I just think if you knew something was on the banned list and was traceable in a sample then you'd pick something with a more certain result if you really wanted to run the risk
 
Orangehorse said:
I thought the antihistamine could easily be a mistake, and reading the owner's comments it seems that this pony was taken at the last minute (although it must have been entered?) and was given some antihistamine for a sting the day before. I can see how easily this could have happened, and that is why the penalty is much reduced.
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At most shows you can enter HOYS qualifiers on the day, the pony just needs to have been logged on the HOYS database and have a ref number.

People send ponies to these people because they do right by 'their' ponies, I may be in the minority but I do believe that this was an unintentional breach of the rules
 
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WelshD said:
At most shows you can enter HOYS qualifiers on the day, the pony just needs to have been logged on the HOYS database and have a ref number.

People send ponies to these people because they do right by 'their' ponies, I may be in the minority but I do think this was an unintentional breach of the rules
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The NPS summer champs entries close 8+ weeks prior, (like most huge shows) there is no way the pony was entered on the day in this instance.
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
The NPS summer champs entries close 8+ weeks prior, (like most huge shows) there is no way the pony was entered on the day in this instance.
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Nearly all shows have a closing date, entering before the closing date usually gets you a reduced entry fee compared to that of entering on the day. A lot competitors in HOYS qualifiers enter on the day as once they have qualified they wont need to go on to pay £50 or so for the next qualifier so they play it show by show
 
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People do give shop bought anti histamines to horses that get stung. My pony got stung his leg swelled up & gave him some piriton & he was fine the next day. However one would expect professional producers to know what is on the list of banned items in order to prevent their clients being caught out. Even if unintentional in the case of the pony it makes the producers look either ignorant of rules that it should be their business to know or dishonest neither will be great for their business reputation. As to how random the sampling should be may be two random selections & then a further one that is one of the champions.
 
conniegirl said:
Phoenix, Helen Pickles; - Inhand Native youngstock ( I think)
So Sweet, Rachel Cowan; Non Native ridden horse
The Panda, Elle Waters-Jones; Native ridden pony
Hello Dolly II, Steph Bradshaw; Native ridden pony
Broadband, Mrs D Rutherford; Show Cob
Cavalier Jack, Lorraine Taylor. MAxi Cob

All coloured obviously
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Phoenix is a 5yo but was tested from an in-hand class.

I would like to know whether all of those tested are HP or are some also pro produced?
 
Dolsey1 said:
Phoenix is a 5yo but was tested from an in-hand class.

I would like to know whether all of those tested are HP or are some also pro produced?
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Sorry thought she was one of your youngsters,

I'm fairly sure Hello Dolly is professionally produced but I dont know about the rest
 
WelshD said:
In humans yes but I'm not sure if there are any studies on equines. Certainly my pony was having 40 tablets a day at the height of his problems with no signs of drowsiness. I just think if you knew something was on the banned list and was traceable in a sample then you'd pick something with a more certain result if you really wanted to run the risk
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It's banned for a reason.
 
Orangehorse said:
Oh right, there it is in print. I didn't know the rules as my local County Show entries close weeks before the show date.
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Some shows do still have a closing date rather than allow entries on the day as it is less paperwork. But many do allow you to enter on the day as many people want to wait for the weather, can't decide which pony to take, which show to go to etc and it gets expensive to enter long in advance if something goes wrong vs an extra £3-10 on the day.
 
meleeka said:
I wonder why dope tests are so expensive?
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Because they are testing for every known banned substance. If you knew you were testing just for bute or just for a normal bog standard sedative - such as in vetting - then it would only be a couple of hundred. But to test for the more obscure and not testing for 1 specific thing takes a lot of time and effort hence why it costs so much.

And that's before you get the shows taking a small cut to be able to afford having a vet there.
 
I actually think that is pretty cheap to test for everything! I know how much lab time costs let alone everything else.
 
ester said:
Yes I did see about the HOYS ticket too, as it should be. Interestingly it seems that they did not have to pay the dope test fee as it is specifically mentioned for the other pony.

In some ways this is where it is a shame there are so many societies as neither of them are really stopped from showing compared to say any of the other equine sports where if you were caught BE you wouldn't be eventing affiliated or able to do any qualifiers.

Given the former is a producer and the latter is owner I presume the lead rein is home produced? Or does it just depend who does the entry/puts the pony forwards?
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It was stated that both had to pay the testing fee!
 
I've sometimes wondered, if they included an amount towards dope testing in entry fee, it might deter a few more... it would be a jolly substantial fee to behold I'm sure :D
 
tallyho! said:
I've sometimes wondered, if they included an amount towards dope testing in entry fee, it might deter a few more... it would be a jolly substantial fee to behold I'm sure :D
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All that would do is put off everyone who is not a millionaire! showing horses is already very expensive with some classes being in excess of £80, when you add fuel and stableing to that often 1 class at a big county show can cost £300.
 
Everyone needs to be very careful. If you have a competition horse and it is in a yard of other horses you need to take precautions not to cross contaminate.

My horse had all his own coloured buckets, haynets, water buckets etc and no one else in the yard was allowed the same colour. All my staff knew that my horse was not to be given anything unless it was out of his own colour and no other horse was to use his stuff, including the mixing spoon for feeds.

Never stand your horse in another horses stable, especially if that horse is on any drugs and don't let other horses stand in your horses stable.

Avoiding accidents with drugs is hard work and everyone in the yard has to be up for it.

I know someone who had their horse sedated for the farrier and competed 5 days later and the sedation came up in a dope test, she just didn't give it a thought so if your horse needs sedating to clip or shoe make sure you know the withdrawal time.

We don't know the inside story for these horses but before we condemn them it just might have been an accident, no excuse but it does not mean it was a deliberately act either.
 
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