Disputed livery - rights of owner? Complex!

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cameo

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This is complicated.
A friend's estranged husband died and the horse that was then inherited, was moved by the estranged husband's girlfriend, unbeknownst to the friend, to a private yard.
The yard owner is now claiming livery fees from my friend (who didn't know where the horse was). In lieu of fees, the yard owner is now claiming Lien and has sent a cheque for the amount of what they think the horse is worth - less the livery fees they claim they are owed.
My friend has no agreement whatsoever with the yard owner (she didn't even know where the horse had been sent and wasn't even informed that it had been sent anywhere - was just aware that it was no longer at their previous marital home). The yard owner wont tell my friend where they live and subsequently where the horse is.
My friend doesn't know where the horse's passport is (suspects the livery yard owner has it. It has her husband's name on it as far as she knows).
The police say it is a case of disputed ownership and they can do nothing.
I feel that the horse should simply be removed as soon as possible (my friend has made some extensive and difficult enquiries and think they are pretty sure where the horse actually is).
Any ideas/ advice anyone!!?
 
Firstly your friend really needs the support of a solicitor here. And surely the YO has no leg to stand on as there was no contract made between them concerning livery?
 
contact missing horses on loan on here. they are a welth of knowledge.

also call the passport agency that hte horse is with and make them aware od the situation, dont be fobbed off!
 
Wow cant give any advice but thats very complicated and I hope that they resolve the situation sooner rather than later - Im pretty sure a livery yard cant just effectivley steal a horse, even if they are owed money - its not like I could just give another livery on my yard a cheque for what their horse is worth minus what they owe me just because they are late for paying me as a freelance groom!
 
The livery yard owner must claim against the estate of the late owner, it is nothing to do with your friend at all.
Contact the executor and they must sort ant debts out, or the solicitor who dealt with probate.
A letter to the livery owner from the above should help clear the situation. Lien as far as I know has to be administered by fomal letter with a three month warning of intent to sell the horse, unless it's changed recently.
 
I also understood that right of lien had to be written into the livery contract, if I am right then the YO won't have a contract signed by your friend and therefore no right of lien. I hope they manage to sort it.
 
The original contract was made with the new partner of the late owner and she is/was not the true owner. The YO will have to claim the livery cost from her, through the Courts if necessary. DO NOT accept any payment or all will be lost.

You need to contact the Passport issuer and tell them what's happened. You need a duplicate which will come back in your name and you'll have to pay a fee. This should arm you with something to show the YO when you collect the horse back. But you need to act fast.

Horsewatch is another organisation good at tracking them down and lots of knowledge to share
 
They are all really useful answers thank you. Yes - my feeling is that the partner of my friend's husband is with whom teh contract is (if any - as we don't know under what "terms" this yard owner ended up with the horse - my feeing is that she fancied having the horse as he is quite a good un, working and competing at a semi-professional level ).

I will contact Horsewatch and how do I get in contact with Missing Horses on Loan please?

It is a complicated and tragic situation that has far more difficult things going on - that I worry deeply for my friend for - as they are huge and look insurmountable. If I can help with at lest this - she may sleep a little better.

I appreciate your helpful responses - thank you.
 
What I am trying to get at is, if your friend has no interest in the horse then why is she worried about being sent a cheque for it? After all, doesn't that free her of any obligation? The YO has obviously had this horse dumped on her and has had no response back from your friends ex's partner and so she is just trying to get ownership from someone who actually responds. It is not your friend's problem at all. If however, she wants the horse then she should agree to pay the fees and have a proper contract written up. It is not fair that the YO should be paying for the keep of a horse she doesn't own. I hope your friend gets sorted out. It must be terrible for her, but if she doesn't want this horse then I fail to see why this is her problem at all.
 
Bad advice Wagtail. The YO should be paid by the person who put the horse on livery with them. The girlfriend has moved an asset from the ex-husband's estate, which I think is theft, but certainly isn't a situation that the true owner of the horse has to just give in to. She has taken a horse without the owner's permission. If that happened to you, would you expect to pay the resulting livery bill?
I can't see anywhere in Cameo's postings that says that her friend has no interest in the horse.
Thinking about it, if the estate is still in probate then this is even more complicated and the executor would have to be involved in decisions about taking cheques in payment for the horse surely?
 
and of course - is there a will? because if there is no will which names the GF as an beneficiary, then that will be theft!. If the horse has been left to GF though then can't see your friend can do much about it. Think the advice about stopping this process while your friend sorts out what is happening is good though.
 
If I had been the YO of the yard where the horse was moved to, I'd have to take some responsibility for not having established in advance (and in writing) who was responsible for the upkeep of the horse.

If 'girlfriend' turned up at YO's yard and said, "My boyfriend's just died and left this horse which I don't want" [to look after] and, "In anycase his 'wife' has inherited it from him, so would you take it on livery please?" I'd have been alerted straight away that things mightn't be straightforward.

Persumably the 'girlfriend' provided the YO with the OP's name and address, so why didn't the YO check FIRST that the livery agreement was acceptable to the person YO assumed would be PAYING THE BILLS - BEFORE accepting the horse on his/her yard???

Still, if the OP knew she'd inherited this horse she needs to know the exact date on which it became her responsibility. Is this when the Will is read, or at some later date? Between the husband's death and the date when the OP takes responsibility for the horse, the husband's estate is liable for all costs. Who is his Executor and who has inherited the bulk of his estate? From the official date the OP was aware she'd inherited the horse, she needed to make it her business to know where her property (the horse) was as she is liable for it.
 
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Ok i may be reading this wrong, but it sounds to me like the GF and the YO know each other, and the horse is prob worth a fair bit, so i am reading it that GF moved horse to YO friends yard did not tell OP's friend where horse was so YO's bill was run up and then they can claim the horse for small money.
OP you friend needs to get in contact with the solicitor that read the will and leave them to sort it out, the estate or the GF will have to pay the outstanding livery bill as your friend was not who the YO drew a contract up with.
Hope she gets it sorted with minimal hassle
 
sounds to me like a set up ie gf and new YO have got together to work out a way to buy this horse cheap.

If horse was left to your friend and she can prove this she needs to do so asap and return cheque to YO with letter stating that horse is 'taken without owners consent'

They are probably just thinking your friend will accept the cash
 
miss_bird - I think you read into it the same as myself (and my friend to be honest). It was competing semi-professionally and is a nice animal.
My friend and her husband have a youngish son - who is devastated by the loss of a parent - and no knowing what is happening to the horse is not helping.

Yes - tinypony - there are all sorts of questions that don't add up - like why didn't the YO get an agreement with the GF when horse was "given"/ "presented"/ etc to them.

I too believe that any bill is to be resolved with the estate.
We don't know if there is any will. None is apparent.

When the husband died, the horse "disappeared" and my friend only found out about it when they got a phone call demanding livery fees. The YO wouldn't identify themselves or their or the horse's whereabouts, OR how they came to have the horse.
(I'm tempted to drive over and collect the horse!)
 
cameo said:
miss_bird - I think you read into it the same as myself (and my friend to be honest). It was competing semi-professionally and is a nice animal.
My friend and her husband have a youngish son - who is devastated by the loss of a parent - and no knowing what is happening to the horse is not helping.

Yes - tinypony - there are all sorts of questions that don't add up - like why didn't the YO get an agreement with the GF when horse was "given"/ "presented"/ etc to them.

I too believe that any bill is to be resolved with the estate.
We don't know if there is any will. None is apparent.

When the husband died, the horse "disappeared" and my friend only found out about it when they got a phone call demanding livery fees. The YO wouldn't identify themselves or their or the horse's whereabouts, OR how they came to have the horse.
(I'm tempted to drive over and collect the horse!)
Click to expand...

If YO/GF won't tell OP's friend where the horse is, how can they expect payment of livery fees? No-one can just demand that you 'give' them a horse for livery fees owed. They would have to give an opportunity to pay any money owed.
Not that I believe that OP's friend owes any livery fees. They IMO are owed by GF who took the horse to the livery yard. Failing that the fees should be paid by the estate. If no will can be found that the wife inherits the first £250,000 of an estate and the rest is inherited by the children, is my understanding of the situation.
OP's friend needs to contact a solicitor asap. I think that she should restrict her communication with YO to notifying her(?) of the solicitor's contact details.
Contacting MHOL seems like a good idea to me.
 
firstly your friend needs to find out if there was a will. if there is then she will need to contact the person in charge of it and explain the situation.

if the horse is left to your friend or their son in the will then the gf has stolen it and can always be done for that.

however there is another side, if the ex is in debt then all his belongings will be sold to pay off all the debts, the gf might have known this and moved the horse to prevent it from being sold but has now got problems paying for it so your friend has got the bill.

the will is the most important thing to sort out at this moment in time. don't accept the cheque from the YO. contact the YO and explain the situation and say that if the horse is not subject to anything in the will (or bequeathed to anyone) then if your friend wants it then she will pay the cost of livery in return for the horse.
 
Would it be worth a go posting the horses details on here as someone might be able to help with it where abouts ?

I think your friend needs a solicitor but surely they need an address to send the letter to the YO/GF regarding the horse ?
 
You are getting some good advice on this thread and some bad. Your friend needs to get some legal advice as quickly as possible (if for no other reason because she needs to know what will happen with the rest of her ex husband's estate). Until that time she should not agree to pay anything to anybody. She could start by ringing CAB for advice, they will point her in the right direction.
This question is bigger than a missing horse, although of course the horse is important.
 
Thank you Tinypony.
My friend is struggling to hold anything together - so that's I am making enquiries. I don't want to put any more details than I feel I need to Lwvtb - obviously as I don't want to make things more difficult.
I do appreciate everyone's input.
 
If the horse was removed without permission and it is clearly obvious that your friend is the actual owner, could she not report it to the police as stolen? Because in effect it has been and now she has someone who will not identify themselves to her claiming to have said horse and will only release it for X amount of money?

I am no legal eagle and don't claim to be! Just a though.
 
Difficult as it is for her, I think your friend needs to get legal advice asap regarding the entire question of inheritance. I can fully appreciate why emotionally this is difficult to deal with now, but she will seriously regret not getting proper legal advice later and it may affect her rights and those of her child with respect to their rightful inheritance.
 
The GF may not be totally in the wrong here.

From what I can gather the horse was kept at the home of her BF. We do not know whether she actually lived there or is anyway horsey. Her BF died and she has made arrangements to send the horse to a livery yard where it will be looked after.

Probably she should have let the wife know, but we don't know the circumstances and the wife may well have not wanted any contact with her.

The probability is that the estate will have to pay the livery costs for the horse, and if the estate can't pay then the horse may well have to be sold to pay debts.

Unless the wife retrieves the horse and cares for it herself she will continue to incur livery fees so it may well be in her interests to negotiate with the YO and sell.
 
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Are you the lady I used to "know" on IHDG some years back Cameo? You were thinking of trying out a picture from the avtar I had there...
 
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