DIY Liveries

[Anita B]

On the H&H forums I see a lot of people complaining about DIY livery yards, the costs, politics, yard rules and most of all the YO. I own my own small yard and have run it as a DIY livery yard for 8yrs. But I have now come to a decision.... I am only going to accept Part liveries from this point forwards.
After my experiences I would advise anyone who owns or rents property to read this before they think that trying to generate a bit of extra income is worth having DIY liveries. I am a responsible and qualified horse owner who was just trying to supplement my own horses keep.

After 8yrs, I will now avoid taking in a DIY livery as it isn't worth £30 a week for all the mess, aggravation, abuse and damage that they cause. DIY liveries are irresponsible in their behaviour, horse care and respect for my property. They have destroyed my paddocks and gateways (now unusable knee deep in mud), caused structural damage to the stable buildings, stolen my property, given me verbal abuse, threatened me with physical injury, threatened to set fire to my yard, refused to pay monies owed (went to small claims court), flooded the yard with water, blocked the drains, broken the toilet seat.... The list goes on! The most upsetting part is their so called 'horse care' - I have had horses left unattended for 5 days, underfed and malnourished, owners refusing to call the vet when necessary, refusing to worm their horses when requested, and refusing to poo pick their paddocks.
In 8yrs, I have called the police twice, gone to Court once and had visits from the RSPCA, this is despite having a comprehensive Yard contract/agreement. That is without the mental stress of recieving text messages and phone calls from 5.15am until 11.30pm, having abusive comments posted on Facebook, and worrying that they have closed gates, locked up, turned off lights etc. when I am not there.
Having had DIY liveries, I now realise that they caused me much more work than if I was just keeping my own horses. DIY owners are needy and their horses cause damage and chaos. In short DIY liveries are not worth the hassle! Next Summer my horses will benefit from the extra grass available and next Winter my bank balance will benefit from having more grazing available for my own horses (less hay to put in field). My yard is now immaculately clean and tidy, and I am now stress free

 

[Mitchyden]

We're not all like that!

 

[AmyMay]

Wow, you've had a shocking experience! But you certainly don't describe all the people I know who are on DIY.

 

[benson21]

Sorry, but how judgemental!! How can you say ALL DIY'ers are like that. you mean to say just because someone is a full livery, they wont break something, cause damage, etc etc.
dont get me wrong, i can see from hwhat you have written you have had a tough time with liveries, but not all DIY'rs are the same. I know, I am one!!! if I have broken something, I get it fixed. if my pony trashes anything, I try my hardest to sort it. I pay my money on time, and I am polite to YO. I care for my horse to my utmost ability, I worm him regularly, I see to him every day without fail, I dont text early in the morning or late at night....do I need to go on.

 

[EffyCorsten]

Poor you I wouldn't ever have liveries personally as I know I'd never get the lovely ones just the mental lot! I know a lot of people who are diy and they are great but I know a few wrongens too.

 

[xgemmax]

Wow a bit judgmental! You've obviously had a bad experience but we're not all like that!

 

[benson21]

DIY owners are needy and their horses cause damage and chaos


Sorry, that has really made me laugh!!! So if I started on your yard as a DIY, then after 6 weeks I changed to full, my pony would know that and go from a complete arse in the field to an angel???

 

[Anita B]

Sorry just sharing my experiences with you as a YO. Yes I know there are some good DIY liveries out there (as I have had a couple of nice ones on my yard) but most of them (95%) are a pain. It seems to be that if the owner is good then the horse is a pest - if the horse is good then the owner causes trouble! The money earnt from taking in DIY just isn't worth the hassle.

 

[patchandloopy]

We are not all like that - but by the same token not everyone has the same respect care and dignity as the 'good' DIYers and those that are bad spoil it for the rest of us.

I have been on both sides and completely agree with OP sadly, DIY is just not worth the aggro and stress you get back in return!

 

[Tiddlypom]

Agree that not all DIY yards are like that! I was on one that was ruled by a dragon lady with a rod of iron and it was great!

I have my own place now and would never have a livery here, even a nice one, as I value my privacy too much though.

 

[AmyMay]

Sorry just sharing my experiences with you as a YO. Yes I know there are some good DIY liveries out there (as I have had a couple of nice ones on my yard) but most of them (95%) are a pain. It seems to be that if the owner is good then the horse is a pest - if the horse is good then the owner causes trouble! The money earnt from taking in DIY just isn't worth the hassle.

As I've said before - and I expect others are sick to the back teeth of me repeating myself - I've only ever been on professionally run yards. And always DIY. Yard ruled with a rod of iron - end result, absolutely no problems.

A horse on part or full livery can still destroy your field and will still churn it up. The owner can still threaten you and can still refuse to pay you.

The only change you're making is charging more money for a horse that's on part livery. The owners haven't changed......

 

[webble]

Sounds like you have had a horrible experience but plese dont tarr us all with the same brush. I am on diy livery at someones private yard and would never dream of doing any of the above. The only slight thing that has ever happened is a fence getting broken but I dont know if that was my horse or hers and she just fixed it

 

[benson21]

have you thought maybe its because you are tarring everyone on your yard with the same brush, and not as individuals?

 

[Moomin1]

Good grief, we aren't all as bad as that!!

I have only ever vandalised my YO's property on a couple of occasions, and that only involved smashing a few windows, and graffiti-ing his car...

And as for my horse, well, she's an angel, she's actually self taught herself to hover over the muddy areas of the field.

 

[AmyMay]

Good grief, we aren't all as bad as that!!

I have only ever vandalised my YO's property on a couple of occasions, and that only involved smashing a few windows, and graffiti-ing his car...

And as for my horse, well, she's an angel, she's actually self taught herself to hover over the muddy areas of the field.

 

[AshTay]

I don't think it's DIY liveries per se - rather a failing on your part to be selective about who you allow on.......

 

[fatpiggy]

have you thought maybe its because you are tarring everyone on your yard with the same brush, and not as individuals?

In the 18 years I owned my horse I was on two DIY yards, the second being a farm. Sadly I saw plenty of what the OP describes. Of course there were some of us who treated everything with respect and as someone elses' home, but too many (and they usually went to every yard in the area in due course) who frankly were lazy, slovenly, thieving liars who cared little for their equines. I suspect that some DIYers see it as the cheapest option and some YOs just want to take the rent every month and get involved as little as possible. It it all blows up in their face,well they throw everyone off and start with a new batch of liveries, but don't learn from their mistakes so the cycle continues and what could have been a decent yard if it was run properly gets a dodgy reputation.

 

[skint1]

Good grief, we aren't all as bad as that!!

I have only ever vandalised my YO's property on a couple of occasions, and that only involved smashing a few windows, and graffiti-ing his car...

And as for my horse, well, she's an angel, she's actually self taught herself to hover over the muddy areas of the field.

Get you madam and your hover pony!

OP I understand how you feel, sounds like you've met some really bad people and I am sorry for what you've been through. I am not going to bother to say we aren't all like that because you sound totally traumatised, but I will turn your argument round another way.

Personally, I would never stable my horses, DIY or otherwise, on a small, privately run yard, especially if it were very immaculate with not a hoof print to be seen in any of the fields nor a wisp of hay blowing down the yard because IMO these places are not often run with the best interest of the horses at heart, it's all about appearance!

Most of the horror stories about crazy or overly restrictive rules I have heard emanate from that type of yard and I think when it comes down to it it's because they don't really want you there messing up their home, I can't blame them, I wouldn't either if I were in their position, but I don't see why they advertise for liveries, get them, put them through the wringer and then complain every one of them is horrid when their expectations are nigh on impossible for anyone to live up to, unless they went round 24/7 with a broom strapped to them. I see that a lot in my area, not saying that's you though OP, just a different point of view

 

[Megibo]

There's not a single person like that at the yard I'm on, and we are ALL 'DIY'ers' !

 

[catdragon]

In the 18 years I owned my horse I was on two DIY yards, the second being a farm. Sadly I saw plenty of what the OP describes. Of course there were some of us who treated everything with respect and as someone elses' home, but too many (and they usually went to every yard in the area in due course) who frankly were lazy, slovenly, thieving liars who cared little for their equines. I suspect that some DIYers see it as the cheapest option and some YOs just want to take the rent every month and get involved as little as possible. It it all blows up in their face,well they throw everyone off and start with a new batch of liveries, but don't learn from their mistakes so the cycle continues and what could have been a decent yard if it was run properly gets a dodgy reputation.

^^ Have to agree with this. I am on a small private DIY yard (4 of us - 5 horses). I treat the place with respect, as do the other liveries. We all pay on time and comply with the YO's requests. We provide our own elec tape/energisers to fence off our own paddocks. We all poo pick. All of our horses are seen twice a day and all their needs attended to. If one of us can't get there we arrange among ourselves to ensure that the horses are not compromised. Please, do not tar all DIY-ers with the same brush, we aren't all the same. Alas though I have met a few of the kind of people you describe, and yes they seem to move often... for a reason. Would advise any YO to make a few enquiries in the area before saying yes whether they are DIY, full or part liveries... And for the record I went from full TO DIY because not all yards are what they say they are and after years I came to realise I just have to get on and look after pone myself... so its not always about money..

 

[ester]

I am struggling to see how DIYers are responsible for muddy gateways... presumably they have to be used and just aren't stoned properly (or you have to put up with them like we did last winter). I have just moved from private yard to DIY, YO runs a tight ship but I'd rather that than the alternatives and everyone looks after their horses and the property well.

 

[hoggedmane]

I have seen plenty of bad behaviour and lack of respect on DIY yards over the years and see where the OP is coming from (not mine I hasten to add - I hope). My current yard is fab but the yard owner is very selective who she has on the yard.

A friend of mine who is not horsey has been renting her field plus shelter and tack room for about a year and has just given the second lot of renters notice. They dumped ponies in the field and didn't visit for weeks (7 the last time). They didn't pooh pick despite it being in the contract and she got fed up of being the bad guy and chasing them about it. The ponies broke out through the fences and were left there. The ponies never saw a farrier the whole time they were there (about 5 months) The first lot were similar - she ended up having to check troughs etc. Luckily none of the horses were injured or ill while they were there. It is a shame as it is a lovely field in a nice area but she is getting reluctant to rent it now due to the bad behaviour of the people she has had in (and she knew both sets of people beforehand!)

 

[Mitchyden]

I'm on a large yard with 35+ horses and most of the DIY are very good. In fact, it's the ones that are are on some sort of part livery that are the pains in the arses!!

 

[skint1]

In answer to Esters post- I guess DIY horses are often hovering by the gate waiting for their owners to finish work so they can come in for the evening maybe, like ASBO kids round the estate corner shop

 

[Merrymoles]

Ouch! I'm a DIY on a small, happy, yard where everyone looks after their horses, helps each other out if necessary and has a great relationship with the YO. There are few rules and everyone respects everyone else's property (and all the horses are treated equally by everyone).
I'm not sure how offering part livery will make a difference to the state of your gateways or weed out the bad apples who don't pay, cause damage etc.
I also opted for DIY because I want to ensure my horse gets the best of care and that's down to me!

 

[ester]

lol maybe!

Or not enough grass/hay out to keep them occupied...

 

[dogatemysalad]

The best YO's are a good judge of character and will keep boxes empty rather than accept bad liveries. It'd be awful to be on a yard with people like the OP has accepted.
Part and full livery owners just come with a different set of problems unless the YO is selective.

 

[Buddy'sMum]

OP, I feel your pain. I stopped providing DIY livery a couple of years ago for much the same reasons as you. I did have some lovely liveries over the years but many more who cared not a jot about their horses or my property! When I finally decided enough was enough and gave the last liveries notice, I knew it was going to be a tough few weeks but OMG I was not prepared for the verbal abuse and threats or the deliberate damage to my property. All of which went on for many months after they left my yard.
Good for you, and enjoy the peace!

 

[honetpot]

I have had horses for 40+ years, have only been on five DIY yards mainly the basic sort where you pay for a field space, stable, water and a bit of leccy, if you are very lucky you may get a light in your stables; A part from the odd young person not feeding their pony enough and petty thief, its mainly be a good experience. The last yard was owned by a friend ,purpose built, floodlit huge school, wash, tea room toilets all for not much more than a basic yard and did people look after it, no, but we had only one real nutter in 3 years.
Last year I took on my own land and stables and wanted just someone to keep me company, renting a block of land and stables. Well I got some right fruit loops, and I thought I was a good judge of character but I got stung and was left out of pocket by £600 plus the aggravation of evection notices.
Anyone that think the average YO is making any profit from their livery is deluded, but yet they seem to have little care and consideration for other peoples property and it seems to have got worse in the last few years, the more facilities you provide the more they want. Basic things like sweeping up after you muck out, stacking the muck heap, washing cups( we even had a dishwasher good grief), not trailing hay all over, not leaving lights on, the hosepipe running and then the is the land issues. You want to look after the land so you arrange to harrow it and fertilise, give them fair notice and then there are a whole string of excuses why they can not move their animal.
I was talking to a friend this morning who shares her paddocks and stables with one other, she charges her £80 a month, because the women keeps leaving the lights on she reckons her electric bill will almost be that. I think if most YO sat down and worked out the trues cost of providing DIY livery they would not do it

 

[L&M]

Ditto! I stopped offering DIY livery too, and although had some lovely clients, had my fair share of 'wrong uns' too. I suppose it goes with the territory, but I found it very tough, especially when having to ask anyone to leave.

In the 5 yrs I ran the yard (from home), I had my car crashed into, my dog run over, broken glass left in the hay barn, one client who was having an affair which she used the yard to conduct it from, numerous unpaid bills, and could go on.

For me the difficulty with DIY was all the coming and going, and the fact the horses routines were all different which was unsettling to the horses, especially in the winter. Also any profit made was nearly always put back into maintenance, and for £25 per week didn't always balance, so often it was me who was out of pocket.

I pretty much gave up doing livery last year and just kept a couple of grass liveries who are lovely and have been with me for years. I now work seasonally for the NT and my yard has become my own again, earn more, and have never been happier!