DIY Liveries

[Wagtail]

I won't have DIY on my yard either. But I don't believe all DIYers are bad, far from it. I have been a DIY client on two different yards and I wold estimate that three quarters of them were good responsible horse owners who were respectful of the YO. However, the other 25% spoil it for everyone else. Even if all are perfect, it still does not pay financially to have people on DIY. Business rates are the same whether you fill a stable with a part livery or a DIY. They use the same amount of water, electricity, and grazing as a part livery. My friend had to close her yard as it was costing her more to run it per person than she was getting in livery (£25 per week). She was making a loss.

I don't know what the answer is though, because if I didn't have my own place I would want to go DIY. But with costs spiralling, I can see a situation where there are not enough vacancies to meet demand. Prices have to go up I think.

 

[MasterBenedict]

Sounds like a management problem to me. People only do what you allow them to. If not, I would have thought notice to leave would be appropriate.

 

[Kadastorm]

Im a DIY'er on a DIY yard and i can honestly say it is the nicest, friendliest yard, clean, tidy with well cared for horses. Sounds like you just need to be more picky about who you let on your yard.
ive had a horrid experience on a full/part livery yard will now never be on anything other than DIY.

 

[L&M]

I am sure that I will be shot down for this, but I think some of the problem with livery yards (and not just DIY), is that people who have never owned their own land and facilities have little concept of the time and money involved in the management.

Most of the problems I had were weather related - I found clients expected excellent all year round grazing but had little understanding of how the seasons affected it. I rarely asked clients to restrict turnout, but when I did was often met with 'well I am paying for it so should always be allowed it'. They didn't seem to understand that if their horses churned the paddocks up in winter, the grass would not be as productive in the summer, when they inevitably wanted 24/7 turnout.

And for those that think livery yards should have more grazing available, at the end of the day the clients chose where to keep their horses, and if feel the grazing is not sufficient, should not put their horses there in the first place. Grazing is at a premium, and in the future will only get less with the need for housing etc, and if owners want larger fields, they should be prepared to pay a premium for it.

 

[Lamb-Ski]

To be fair to the OP only decent, caring, considerate, fee paying liveries are going to respond to this post. The nightmare liveries that she is referring to are hardly going to pop up and agree they were destructive, disrespectful, neglectful owners, are they? And as for policing/vetting prospective liveries, this is nigh on impossible. I have my own place, self funded and have taken in the odd livery or two to help pay the bills. One I have had for 6 years and she will never leave because she knows she is on to a good thing. Her horse lives with mine in a herd of five and is treated exactly the same as mine. She pays £20 per week but does more than her fair share of poo picking which is done everyday. That said she has never replaced or offered to pay for any damage her horse has caused and complains about everything there is to complain about. I simply tell her to shut the flipping heck up. The other DIY I had left in the summer, she was a serving police officer and drove me demented with her demands. I had a very tough winter watering/haying and feeding her horses last winter for no extra fee and her wage was triple mine!! And the thank you's were very few, which I find really offensive. One of her horses became unwell, I called the vet 4 times in two weeks, in the third week I had to demand she called the vet and get her backside down to the farm. He was put down a week later having been diagnosed with colic. The one before was a professional and her horse trashed fields, fencing and when broken out caused serious injury to one of mine on a number of occasions. She would never use the farrier when the other livery was shod and her horse was always losing shoes (mine are barefoot) I really resented this as lost shoes are dangerous. She also never offered to pay for damaged caused. I always make it clear that I do not blame horses for being horses but I do expect liveries to acknowledge damage that has been caused or mess that's been left. The livery before that passed the door twice a day on the way to and on return from work but only came on Saturday's, was not married and had no kid's and her horse pooed for england. When it suffered a serious injury it took her 3 days to come and see the horse and 2 weeks to get the vet. He then went away and took 6 months to recover which was a 50/50 prognosis. Like everything in life there is good and bad and I think the OP has clearly had her fill of the bad.

 

[Holly Hocks]

Wow - OP I don't think you should tar everyone with the same brush! I consider myself a pretty considerate DIY'er as are most of the people on my yard. My area is always clean and tidy, I throw my much up onto the muck heap and poo pick obsessively. I visit at least twice a day, some days three times a day.

 

[Arizahn]

I prefer the yard we are already on anyhow, as does pony

So there.

 

[Tiddlypom]

I prefer the yard we are already on anyhow, as does pony

So there.

Were you one of these allegedly misbehaving DIYers, then, Arizahn ??!

 

[irishdraft]

I dont accept DIY anymore either as my husband says "want the most pay the least " even my grass liveries are on a part livery basis, just not worth it otherwise.

 

[charlie76]

The best YO's are a good judge of character and will keep boxes empty rather than accept bad liveries. It'd be awful to be on a yard with people like the OP has accepted.
Part and full livery owners just come with a different set of problems unless the YO is selective.

ΔΔΔ
This!

 

[Toffee_monster]

I await the thread when you get a part livery who is just as bad !!!
How silly! I wonder how many of your so called terrible liveries would consider you as one of the batty YO's we see, or one of the YO's who dont feed their part livery horses to save money ?

 

[splashgirl45]

i feel quite offended for all of the diy ers out there...including myself...i am on diy with one other person at a private yard... we both respect the property, always keep everything tidy and clean. both horses are looked after properly and are groomed everyday, checked at least twice a day, poo picked daily. if either of them break the fence, we pay for it to be replaced. we are allowed to keep them out 24/7 in summer and yo likes them in at night in the winter to save the fields, so thats what we do. i think im a good DIY er!!!!!!

 

[The Fuzzy Furry]

OP, I'm among the YO's who have had liveries over the years (have had them on & off for nearly 30 years) and will never have one again, but have not gone quite so far as to label all DIY's as a bunch of 'xyz's..........

 

[MadBlackLab]

Sorry you have had bad experience but not all DIYers are like that

Even with part or full livery you may still get the same problems. You will still get churned up fields, muddy gateways (cant be helped this time of year), rude owners, abusive owners, non-paying owners and rude horses. The only difference is you get more money and more control over the welfare of the horses

 

[MillyMoomie]

I have either kept my horses at home or run a large full livery/eventing yard myself but Due to where I am currently working I have to be a DIY. I can't afford full and I actually enjoy looking after my horse. I wouldn't dream of doing any of those things and I feel that DIYers are often stereotyped.
On the other hand I spent a long time finding the right yard and YO and that happens to have a couple of full liveries... Some of which are TOTAL NIGHTMARES. Some people it seems. Particularly horse people are just idiots.

 

[chocolategirl]

I have run a livery for 18 years assisted DIY and while I admit, there is absolutely NO MONEY to be made on the basic weekly charge, I still do it because it's company for me and it gives the land something to be used for. I know that if you allow them to, some people will walk all over you, some people are fine and do appreciate all I do for them. I am interested to know what part of the country you are located, not that that would really make any difference, but just my own curiosity. I am sorry you had such horrid experiences, but you have to be very very firm with people and 99% of the time you will get their respect. One of the things I find most difficult is making sure everyone gets on! Some people just don't mix well together but generally speaking, I havnt had too much trouble all these years. You are right though in that people can be very demanding and expect a lot for their few quid ( I charge less than £4 per day!) and you would not believe some of the c**p I have to out up with sometimes for it

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Am so sorry for your situation OP.

We've been here for 21 years now, doing DIY livery all that time, and in that time have had five liveries in total, and only had one really bad livery; and she only stayed for a month, thank heaven.

We've also had one who was a bit of a lazy madam, she basically paid for DIY but expected full, kind of thing, and expected me as YO to run around after her and wipe her horses bum, you get the picture. She was here for about two years if my memory is correct, and left of her own accord quite amicably.

The livery we have now is basically the "perfect livery". She is kind, considerate, and keeps her horses in tip top condition. She always tells me if there are going to be visitors to the yard (we live on-site) and always pays on time!!! And she's never rude or sullen, always bright and polite.

So sorry you've had all this hassle OP......... but, sorry if appearing insensitive here, think you may just need to be a bit more selective as to your choices when taking people on in the first place???? Yes I know its easy to get to the position where you're maybe a bit cash-strapped and need someone to fill a vacancy on the yard, and the last time we let the yard out we had a good few people come to look at it and a lot of them were timewasters, so it would have been easy to have allowed someone to come in that we weren't 100% happy with, but as we live here too we needed to be totally happy with whoever we took on, so although the yard was vacant for a few months before the right person came along, it was deffo worth the wait!!

The way we operate here is to have just the ONE livery; so there's no question of people not getting on which is where I think a lot of YO's have difficulties. Our set-up would probably not be suitable for more than one other livery in any case.

 

[sarahann1]

I must be a terrible DIYer, just awful, so awful in fact that my YO who is on our local BHS committee has put my name forward to become a BHS welfare officer.

DIY bashing is just mean, some of us really enjoy looking after our horses and want to do it ourselves.

 

[Anita B]

I knew when I started this thread that there would be some very indignant people and I accept that not all DIY liveries are as bad - however I am only sharing some of my experiences with the forum. I too used to be a DIYer for over 20yrs before I was lucky enough to buy my stables, so I am sympatheic to DIY needs. However would you allow someone in your home, renting a room for the equivalent of £4.50 a day? That is the question.... at least with Part or Full livery, I can manage the turnout to protect the ground (no poached fields), adjust feeding to each individuals requirements (no welfare cases) and ensure that the horse is treated quickly by a vet when needed, preventing unnecessary suffering (without threats to my yard or physical abuse). Yes, I have been traumatised by the problems and aggravation that I have suffered through taking DIY. I believed that I could run a good livery yard (having been on some awful ones in the past). It appears that despite my best efforts, some people take the ****. I have always gone beyond being the YO, I have repaired DIYers cars FOC, picked them up from their home when they had no transport, stayed late to remove loose shoes and help change dressings, and stayed at the yard until 2am for the vet to attend - all done FOC. Obviously I am just a kind hearted mug! Lol... Well no more thank you - at least Part and Full livery will earn me some money, and if I get any problems with them, then they will be asked to leave...

 

[Echo Bravo]

I have helped two people over the years both had been asked to leave their previous yards and like a mug I listened to them, and both of them did take advantage of believe it or not of my good nature. the first started off ok(she was only going to stay till her OH built the stable for her daughters pony) but by Xmas they turned up hours late to fed the mare and how can you leave a horse with no food when you have just fed your own around her and listen for 2 hours of her banging the stable door(my door) Xmas day they didn't turn up at all, so I fed her turned her out and mucked her out, they used my stable tools, while I was there (they were going to buy some), so gave them a months notice which was better than their previous place as they gave them a week and can understand why. The 2nd person had a fallout with her boss, she had a pony stallion, 2 mares with foals, 1 2 year old and a little pony she was trying to sell on someone's behalf. by the time she went my big paddock was ruined for grazing from over grazing, she did sell the little pony and the yearling. The stallion well I fed him mucked him out and gave him free hay and straw, she said she was depressed, hubby gave me notice to give her notice and she finally went with a backwards glance or a thank you and no money passing my way, so I ended up depressed, as I had to balance my books and do the repairs the stallion had created.

 

[Moomin1]

I knew when I started this thread that there would be some very indignant people and I accept that not all DIY liveries are as bad - however I am only sharing some of my experiences with the forum. I too used to be a DIYer for over 20yrs before I was lucky enough to buy my stables, so I am sympatheic to DIY needs. However would you allow someone in your home, renting a room for the equivalent of £4.50 a day? That is the question.... at least with Part or Full livery, I can manage the turnout to protect the ground (no poached fields), adjust feeding to each individuals requirements (no welfare cases) and ensure that the horse is treated quickly by a vet when needed, preventing unnecessary suffering (without threats to my yard or physical abuse). Yes, I have been traumatised by the problems and aggravation that I have suffered through taking DIY. I believed that I could run a good livery yard (having been on some awful ones in the past). It appears that despite my best efforts, some people take the ****. I have always gone beyond being the YO, I have repaired DIYers cars FOC, picked them up from their home when they had no transport, stayed late to remove loose shoes and help change dressings, and stayed at the yard until 2am for the vet to attend - all done FOC. Obviously I am just a kind hearted mug! Lol... Well no more thank you - at least Part and Full livery will earn me some money, and if I get any problems with them, then they will be asked to leave...

I would say my YO makes a good profit from his DIY liveries tbh.

 

[Pidgeon]

LOL 95% of DIY liveries are bad! Never had such a laugh for a long time. Good grief you must have had the pick of them, yes some don't take care of their horse or your property but to be honest the majority I know are so far removed from what you have described.
I personally prefer DIY to part or full as I like to know my horse is done to my high standard, and I feel my bond with my horse is better.
What on earth gives you the right to be so judgemental about people who choose to keep their horse on DIY rather than part or full? I would imagine those that treat other people's property badly will do whether they are on DIY part or full.
Ho hum

 

[MadBlackLab]

well if 95% are bad then god the countryside is over-run with them.

 

[starandgarfy51]

Hi Anita B
I think I may know you although my username will not provide many clues!
Are you in Hertfordshire area?
If you are I loved being at your yard and I thought you were a great yard owner,who worked really hard full time elsewhere as well as looking after your own and liverys horses.
I hope I wasn't too bad as a livery but I know there can be some really bad ones too.Mine was the one with the blue eyes don't want to give too much away!!!!!
Star*

 

[Honey08]

Hello Pidgeon, how are you? Haven't seen you on here for a while.

We used to have DIYs and didn't find it a nice experience generally. If I had people on the yard again I would only have part/full liveries. That said, I don't think all DIYs are bad, just that we were perhaps a bit too soft and picked the wrong types. Hubby would rather cut off his bits than have anyone on the yard at all though, DIY or full!

ps. Hope that Starandgarfry is an ex-DIYer of the OP. OP sounds like they need a bit of appreciation. I know OP has seemed a bit negative in general, but I was once in her shoes and can empathise a bit!

 

[Pidgeon]

Winters here so earlier nights mean I can spend time on the internet! Pidge is far too well for his own good and refuses to act his age (16 now). How are you?

 

[starandgarfy51]

Hi guys
Yes I left because my job was too far away! I tried for a while but the travelling was too much.
This was a couple of years ago now, so maybe op is not the person I thought. I just would hate her to give up as was a good yard owner. No other reason for posting!
star*

 

[babymare]

Hey not all DIY people are bad.I was a good person.. only one trying to ragwort and poo pick field of 11. Always sweeping yards. Etc etc till I gave up and did for my horse only. give me a yard that all think same and i would have been happy. Some DIY are good horse people honest .

 

[Doublethyme]

How rude to imply DIYers can't possibly keep horses to the same standard as a YO running a livery business. Completely ridiculous sweeping statement.

In my experience too many YO's are too soft, too weak and need a backbone to say these are the rules, live by them or leave. Most yards would run better that way. I have been a DIY for 30 years and every yard I have ever been at, I know I would be welcome back, but have seen a fair few fellow liveries run riot thinking they own places, when a firm hand and tighter rules would prevent issues occurring.

If there is no money in it, why do it anyway! Again I get fed up of the woe is us brigade. Find a different business.....funnily I know a few full livery yards go to DIY because they couldn't make the money on full livery to justify working at it full time.

Mind you I have yet to meet a poor YO yet in my DIY experiences. ....

 

[Doormouse]

On the H&H forums I see a lot of people complaining about DIY livery yards, the costs, politics, yard rules and most of all the YO. I own my own small yard and have run it as a DIY livery yard for 8yrs. But I have now come to a decision.... I am only going to accept Part liveries from this point forwards.
After my experiences I would advise anyone who owns or rents property to read this before they think that trying to generate a bit of extra income is worth having DIY liveries. I am a responsible and qualified horse owner who was just trying to supplement my own horses keep.

After 8yrs, I will now avoid taking in a DIY livery as it isn't worth £30 a week for all the mess, aggravation, abuse and damage that they cause. DIY liveries are irresponsible in their behaviour, horse care and respect for my property. They have destroyed my paddocks and gateways (now unusable knee deep in mud), caused structural damage to the stable buildings, stolen my property, given me verbal abuse, threatened me with physical injury, threatened to set fire to my yard, refused to pay monies owed (went to small claims court), flooded the yard with water, blocked the drains, broken the toilet seat.... The list goes on! The most upsetting part is their so called 'horse care' - I have had horses left unattended for 5 days, underfed and malnourished, owners refusing to call the vet when necessary, refusing to worm their horses when requested, and refusing to poo pick their paddocks.
In 8yrs, I have called the police twice, gone to Court once and had visits from the RSPCA, this is despite having a comprehensive Yard contract/agreement. That is without the mental stress of recieving text messages and phone calls from 5.15am until 11.30pm, having abusive comments posted on Facebook, and worrying that they have closed gates, locked up, turned off lights etc. when I am not there.
Having had DIY liveries, I now realise that they caused me much more work than if I was just keeping my own horses. DIY owners are needy and their horses cause damage and chaos. In short DIY liveries are not worth the hassle! Next Summer my horses will benefit from the extra grass available and next Winter my bank balance will benefit from having more grazing available for my own horses (less hay to put in field). My yard is now immaculately clean and tidy, and I am now stress free

I do sympathise, I have just had an abusive call and then several abusive texts calling me all sorts of names and threatening me with things because I asked for £20 for muck removal over 6 months. Never worth it IMO.