DIY Livery question, is this reasonable?

charlimouse

charlimouse

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I have my own yard, which I keep my horses on, and also take on some schooling/holiday liveries. I good friend of mine who comes up and rides some of my horses with me is now in a position to buy her own horse and asked if she could keep it with me on DIY. I am happy to do this, but having never offered DIY I want to check my ideas are reasonable before I go back to my friend with a proposition. I am not looking to make money, but need to cover my costs.

My yard has 6 acres of grazing, and I currently have 6 horses here, and also a minature shetland and a donkey, so the grazing is limited. I try to get the horses out as much as possible in the summer, and would rather them be out, with extra haylage, than in stables for long periods of time. But I don't put them out if the weather is completey foul and the ground a bog as I do need the preseve the land I have. All fields are post and railed with automatic water troughs. The stabling is in a 3yo monarch american barn, and all stables are 12x14, with rubber matting. There is a large under cover tie up area for farrier, vets, grooming ect. I have a horse solarium, and heated rug drier, and feed area, which she would have access to. There is also a very well maintained 20x40 outdoor arena with floodlights, which are good enough to do flatwork under, but you couldn't jump as they are a bit shadowy. A full set of decent showjumps including fillers and water trays and a XC paddock including ditches, bank, tyres ect. I live on site, and am a BHSAI.

So I was thinking £25 per week for stable, grazing, use of all facilities including lights ect. Then I would charge her cost price on shavings (£5.25 per bale) and haylage (which currently works out a £1 per day). I will poo pick all the fields as it is easier this way. She will provide her own feed.

Insurance is sorted as I already use the yard to take on schooling liveries and use the arena to teach, so we are fully insured.

Does this sound reasonable?

I was also thinking of having a token system for favours, so if my friend wanted me to get her horse in for the farrier she would give me a token, and likewise if I was teaching and wanted a small job doing I would give her a token. Possibly had 5 tokens eack, and use it as a currenncy to make sure that neither of us risks taking advantage of the other. What do you think?
 
I see you are in Yorkshire and i am based in Sussex - but reasonable..... I would bite your hand off. Very good price for all that you are offering :-)
 
i think that sounds ideal, even though you are friends i would also get a contract drawn up and signed, best to start as you mean to go on, a lot of friendships can be spoilt otherwise.
 
Sounds good to me. From someone who had friends on her yard as DIYs, be very clear on ground rules etc before you start - I didn't have a contract/notice period etc because they were friends, and ended up getting messed around a bit at the end.. Also be clear on how you expect things to be kept - ie, yard swept/muckheap forked. It can be quite a shock having someone else on a small yard after having it all your own way!
 
Hi

Sounds a good deal. Rather than tokens I would set a rate for "services" and not too cheap other wise you may get taken advantage of.

I would suggest you point out that you will be doing the poo picking and are keeping the DIY rate low but in return if you need a favour you expect her to help. I understand your token system may seem fairer (she is having to pay but you get favours!) but I think you will find you will be doing a lot more favours being on site so its easier if you get paid!

I would also suggest you agree a notice period in the event one of you isnt happy. Payment in advance and by direct debit.

Best to have the "business" conversations up front and set the scene then you can get on with your friendship.
 
It sounds very fair,the only thing to really clarify is the turnout,that you will not turnout if very wet or that it may be for a limited time only each day.
I get my DIYs ,if I have any,in during the winter,and dont charge,so that they are not hanging around churning the gateways up.
 
I would bite your hand off for that too! I am from south/east though but that is incredibly cheap - for £5 a week more I get use of school, turnout all year round (daytime winter, option of night if wanted summer) and my stable! £1 for lights in school also not good enough to jump under and have to source and buy in own hay, feed and straw (which I now do for the whole yard) :)
 
Sounds a great bargain for your friend - but in your shoes I would think very very carefully if you actually want someone else on your yard. It sounds like you have a fab set up - for you and yours. Are you absolutley certain that your friend has the same standards as you do - if she doesn't sweep up to your standards will you get fed up? If you are regularly poo picking after her horse will that irritate you. And last but by no means least - as it is your friend will you be in a position to ensure that you get your livery money when it is due and you will not have to chase her up for it?

I have seen far too many friendships break up in circumstances like this, where initially it works out well - and then a bit down the road some-one feels that the other is taking advantage. xx
 
I'm in Lancashire and pay £15 a week for DIY but my facilities are nothing like as good as you describe, in fact very basic. There is little turnout in winter (saving the fields), what turnout there is between Oct - April is entirely at the YO's descretion.

I'd probably move to your yard and willingly pay the extra £10! Just the use of your off-road all-weather riding facilities (with LIGHTING.. sigh) would be bliss.
 
EllenJay said:
Sounds a great bargain for your friend - but in your shoes I would think very very carefully if you actually want someone else on your yard. It sounds like you have a fab set up - for you and yours. Are you absolutley certain that your friend has the same standards as you do - if she doesn't sweep up to your standards will you get fed up? If you are regularly poo picking after her horse will that irritate you. And last but by no means least - as it is your friend will you be in a position to ensure that you get your livery money when it is due and you will not have to chase her up for it?

I have seen far too many friendships break up in circumstances like this, where initially it works out well - and then a bit down the road some-one feels that the other is taking advantage. xx
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Wise words. It's like when great friends share a house, they go into it all excited but often don't stay great friends afterwards!
 
Tbh friend or not I would be inclined to charge a little more than that for the facilities you are offering!I was bitten quite badly by a friend,and hand on heart think you are best keeping the friendship seperate to the horse ownership,if she wants to keep horse at your yard then charge as you would anybody else and explain why!Many a friendship I have seen destroyed by good natured friends offering of cheaper livery and other friend taking advantage!You know your friend better than any of us and am sure you will make the right decision,but please be careful,especially if it is a valued friendship :) x Good luck x
 
You will be increasing your income by £100 per month, so apart from the poo, and if I were you I'd get her to do it at weekends for you, I think that it will be worthwhile, make sure there is no insurance conflict. I think you should insist she insures her horse for vet bills, as you will be taking on "horse keepers" responsibilities.
Friend or not the tax man might want a bite!
 
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That is really cheap,i am from East yorkshire and pay roughly the same amount for somewhere without most of those facilities. I know of alot of yards around here that charge the same/more for a lot less also.
 
i think it sounds like a great deal. yes (as you admit) you have limited grazing but it seems that you are very careful with this and supplement with haylage so i don't see the problem (certainly all of your horses look in great condition so seems to suit them! :))
I would probably have a price system wherby your friend could pay for jobs to be done- for example £2 for a turnout/bring in or whatever- could keep a running total and then if she has to do jobs for you could knock the appropriate amount off her bill every month.

i would just say that you should be really clear, right from the start, what the ground rules are- its much easier to go through it all at the beginnning than to start nit picking once she has moved on. so rules re. use of arena, tidying up, jobs to be done around yard, turnout, hours of access etc etc....
good luck - am very jealous!
 
SusieT said:
You already have too many horses for the land-don't take on any more!
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I think the land:horse ratio is totally dependent on the condition of the land itself, the management, and whether the grass available is intended to actually sustain the horses. IF forage is fed, either in or out, then it is plenty of land. The old BHS one and a half acres per horse is outdated and intended merely as a guideline.

I have a floating population of between 20 and 30 horses (most 15h +) on around 30 acres in various paddocks sized from 8 acres to half an acre, there is no crowding, my land stands up to it and I could easily take up to 35 without there being a problem. 90% live out. I don't expect my land to actually feed the horses, that's what hay is for.
 
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Instead of "favours" something like this may be a better idea, so there is no arguments over who has done what.

DIY service with additional services as agreed on a case by case basis. The ‘plus’ service can be whatever suits your individual requirements, eg: Get in/turn out and rug change if required £1.50 each way.
Mucking out/filling ha netsy/waters £5,
Clipping, mane pulling, ridden work, lungeing all available if required.
Haylage £30/bale, £15/half, shavings/straw mix £7.00/bale.(haylage/ shavings may be subject to change).
Alternatively you can also have any of the additional services as charged for extras with the DIY service if you don’t need them routinely (eg holiday/sickness cover, clipping, etc, etc).


^^^ comes from a local livery yard website- this is the DIY plus service and it costs £125pcm and then these bits extra :)
 
Sounds very reasonable to me, I pay £25 a week per horse for grazing/arena and american barn stabling but I have to do buy in hay/bedding, poo pick fields and pay for any damage my horses do, ie fencing.

Remember to make sure she has public liability insurance at the very least.
 
You are massively undercharging. I think you should charge double that if you do all the pooh picking and those floodlights will cost you a lot in the winter months. In my yard we pay £1 each time we use the floodlights (sometimes sharing the menage - so 50p each):)
 
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