DIY yard rule regarding when to muck out..

Tinypony said:
This reminds me why I'm happy to no longer be on a livery yard. One reason for a start - get away from trivial rules.
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Unfortunately without rulers chaos ensues! I have been on yards over the years that have been total crap fests riddled with vermin, muck heap out of control, the list goes on. Most of the yards in operation, are also people's homes, and therefore, they have a right to expect people to keep the place tidy surely? And before you shoot me down in flames and say that if they don't like the mess, they shouldn't run a yard from their home, how many yards do you think there would be if that where the case?! As a yard owner, sometimes I would just love it if people would stop and ask themselves what would they do, say or think if they were in yard owners shoes?
 
Surely if the stables are designed correctly to drain pee away, the smell shouldn't be a problem? Our RDA ponies are kept in during our carriage sessions apart from when they're taken out to be used for 5 hours on an afternoon and one or two may pee inevitably as they wait to be turned out in the yard again at night (locked in by two gates). I find after 10 mins or so the wee drains away so quickly there is no smell. They are just kept on rubber mats though.
I'm not a tidy person by nature anyway but a slightly untidy yard doesn't bother me. Seeing the odd poop or so actually tells me this a nice relaxed yard that has no strict rules. I agree sweeping could be done at least twice a day or if there is a big mess like clipping but if it doesn't cause a hazard then it could be left until a more convenient time.
 
MerrySherryRider said:
My friend was a firefighter and managed fine. Another was an ambulance driver with 6 horses. Again, no problem. I managed with young children and nursing shifts . Basically, if you want to, you do. If time is so limited perhaps diy is not the right choice.
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I totally agree, I was a retained firefighter for 5 yrs before I had my son on top a full time job and still managed, sometimes little sleep but it can be done. I looked into full time firefighting but wasn't fit enough after having my son so left for the job I'm in now. Also worked shifts when I was younger and still coped fine and that included 11.30 finishes and opening the place at 6am, its getting out of bed. Can't do it then I agree that DIY isn't right for you
 
Have to say my horses stable never smells bad! The only time I've seen the pink bedding someone mentioned is when digging out a deep litter bed. If my horse is in box rest then I pay to have him mucked out in the mornings but I can't afford it the rest of the time.

If your yard has very restricted turnout and the horses get brought in again at twelve then I can maybe see the point, but I wouldn't be on a yard like that, and certainly not on DIY. I love my horse and I have kept horses for 22 years but they are my hobby and 'down time'. They're not my whole life and they need to fit in round about that I'm afraid.
 
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blimey I am so admiring of all you early birds - well done you! I am afraid I would pay rather than have to be at the yard by 6!

Might be slightly off topic, but I am not sure why the rule is about mucking out, rather than tending to the horse in other ways? The thing I really can't stand is some poor horse being stood in its stable, having eaten all its hay, until 11 am when the owner bothers to come and turn it out. THAT is what there should be rules for, IMO!
 
3OldPonies said:
At the risk of causing an almighty ruck - and I can see that for shiftworkers or people who don't have yards close or even at home mucking out a.m. can be awkward, how do you justify to yourselves allowing the ammonia to build up during the day/week if you muck out in the evening? Would it not be better if you struggle to get it done, to go assisted DIY or have a sharer so that stuff doesn't build up and have a chance to affect your horse's breathing? What would you do if your horse was on box-rest, or couldn't be turned out for any reason leave it to stagnate in a dirty bed all day?

btw - don't shout at me, I'm just interested that's all.

And I'm not knocking you, just it does start to raise some welfare questions, presumably YO's wouldn't need to put rules in place if they didn't feel the need.

One other thing, someone mentioned yard sweeping. It's not just done to look pretty! If a yard is messy then it is very easy to miss stuff that could get stuck in a horse's foot, or other problems such as slipping if there is mud and loose hair all over the place.
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What ammonia smell? A proper bed (not a skimpy one) the wet, and any smell, will be at the bottom away from the horse. Fresh bedding from the banks/rest of bed tends to fall/get kicked over most of the poos so horse isn't actually standing in them even if on box rest and only getting mucked out once in 24hrs. I never muck out with horse in the stable, even a box rest horse of mine would be tied up outside so wouldn't smell the ammonia when mucking out. Bed relaid immediately and again, deep bed equals no smell. I sometimes choose to deep litter a horse over winter for various reasons and that bed, which is only ever skipped out for 6mths, doesn't smell either (until mucking out time in spring of course).

I don't want a sharer to help with chores. I like chores. Plus, IMO they either muck out badly leaving a dirty bed (and I'm not fussy about every nugget of poo being collected either!) or they're inefficient and waste clean bedding therefore costing me rather than saving me money. I dont want assisted DIY or part livery either. I can't afford to pay for it and find the mucking out of most yard staff as bad as that of sharers. Plus, I enjoy horsecare its part of why I have one rather than being a sharer myself. With the amount I ride it would be more cost effective for me to be a sharer, but I prefer owning for both the freedom of choice and control of horses care it gives me.

No YO even on posh yards has ever asked me to leave or told me my mucking out isn't to standard. No one has ever had concerns over my horses welfare. Most people say my horses are pampered, think my beds are crazy deep and some announce in surprise that I'm throwing away cleaner bedding than their horse is sleeping on. I'm not stingy with bedding or mucking out just won't throw away clean stuff because there's a speck of poo in it, dont leave rogue wet patches to get mixed in making bed damp and smelly and don't care if my stable floor is dry or not. If I'm mucking out daily and it gets too whiffy then I'll put a drop of disinfectant in the water bucket remainder and throw that down before relaying the bed.
 
I'm a YO - its DIY here and always has been. We only have the one livery so not the same situation as I guess OP is in on a bigger yard where there may well be a need for various dictates.

Livery mucks out when she pleases here. We live on site and my horses are in the same yard. The arrangement is loose-boxes rather than american barn.

Rules are made for a reason; and some of the "rules" I've had to have here in the past might have seemed pretty bizarre and/or unreasonable, BUT at the end of the day the YO is the YO and the buck has to stop with her.

Its a case of put up with it or leave at the end of the day........
 
Those saying they wouldn't bring horse into a dirty stable- neither would I. I would always muck out before bringing in. And we have an emergency vet stable (as have a few grass liveries too, plus used for isolation of new horses and kept sterilised) so if my horse needed a vet in an emergency she would go in there anyway.
in the grand scheme of things, would a few more hours really make a difference to the smell? It shouldn't if it was mucked out thoroughly and correctly the day before, surely?! Every last bit of wet gets taken out of my stable every day, so there would be no real build up of ammonia.
 
Good thread OP! I feel like I've been living in a cave as I honestly had no idea that so many people did not muck out first thing in the morning. Wouldn't occur to me to NOT muck out and turn back the beds first thing in the morning tbh.
 
I've not seen a reason yet in any of the posts that has convinced me that imposing a rule like this is a necessity on a normal DIY yard (by that I mean winter full day turn out and only DIYs on yard).

Every reasoning so far has just been down to personal preference or a one off that could easily be worked around (for example, asking that stables must be mucked out if bringing in for farrier or before showing a prospective client around etc. and I would hope that any emergency vet would be focussing on the horse and not worrying about the state of the stable). That is fine if that is how you want to do things but it doesn't mean that everyone should be forced to do the same. A stable mucked out daily to a good standard with appropriate bedding will not smell.

I can completely see that a rule of mucking out at least once a day and keeping outside areas clean and tidy is necessary and respectful to the YO. No problem with that at all.

As I said, I wouldn't move to a yard with a rule like this and would move asap if it was ever bought in.
 
Spring Feather said:
Good thread OP! I feel like I've been living in a cave as I honestly had no idea that so many people did not muck out first thing in the morning. Wouldn't occur to me to NOT muck out and turn back the beds first thing in the morning tbh.
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You're not the only one, but DIY livery yards in the UK vary greatly in standards.
 
I would leave a yard that said I had to muck out before a certain time if I was DIY, however I do think there should be a time set for horses been seen too. We had a livery at our home, the horse would still be in, unfed, unseen too at midday regularly, they were neighbours, we used to go and get them up. I think they were hoping we'd do it for them.
 
tobiano said:
Might be slightly off topic, but I am not sure why the rule is about mucking out, rather than tending to the horse in other ways? The thing I really can't stand is some poor horse being stood in its stable, having eaten all its hay, until 11 am when the owner bothers to come and turn it out. THAT is what there should be rules for, IMO!
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well, agreed but again, I would not stay on a yard where that was allowed to happen i.e. if owner isn't there to TO, the yard turns out and bills the owner for it.
 
Oddly enough we have this yard rule. Have been on same yard for eight years and its never bothered any of us. All stables must be mucked out by 11.30 am, and all horses done for the evening by 7.30 pm. Its an assisted DIY yard as well. Its inserted into our livery contracts and nobody worries. On the odd occasions when time has been impossibly tight, which are rare, I have just told YO its going to be sorted and its done later.

The yard is an L shaped block around the YOs home and I personally cant think of anything worse than leaving a stable full of muck. Our stables are brick built so no issues with horses next door with dust and mould spores etc. None of us stress over it, its a yard rule and thats it. Its a very happy, friendly, harmonious yard where we all know what the YOs expectations are of us and ours of her.
 
I used to share duties with another girl in the mornings, the YM insisted that her horse had to be mucked out in the morning as her stable was the first one people saw when they came on to the yard (very busy livery yard and riding school). Mine didn't have to be done in the morning because it was round the back where the public weren't likely to stray!

I generally do mine in the morning unless I'm really rushed, but that's just me.
 
WinkingWillow said:
Unfortunately without rulers chaos ensues! I have been on yards over the years that have been total crap fests riddled with vermin, muck heap out of control, the list goes on. Most of the yards in operation, are also people's homes, and therefore, they have a right to expect people to keep the place tidy surely? And before you shoot me down in flames and say that if they don't like the mess, they shouldn't run a yard from their home, how many yards do you think there would be if that where the case?! As a yard owner, sometimes I would just love it if people would stop and ask themselves what would they do, say or think if they were in yard owners shoes?
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I said trivial rules, not all rules. For example I think a rule saying everyone on DIY has to muck out by a certain time in the morning is trivial. A rule saying they must muck out daily isn't. Rules for rodent control aren't trivial either.
 
I know a yard that insists horse are mucked out by. 9.30, regardless of if they are turned out or staying in.
I have never stables my horses there though.

I always muck out in the morning and am always there early but this is a bit cheeky, I understand why people muck out later.

It must be a tidy yard or have full liveries and want all the mess and chaos over with early!
 
It's not always a simple matter of mucking out am or pm (just a thought as some seem to think mucking out evenings amounts to neglect!). I used to stable one of mine in a situation where I was able to work with another livery to help each other out. Most mornings she'd turn out, then go home to sort out kids and go to work. I'd turn up late morning normally, sometimes early afternoon, and muck out both of our stables. Then one or other of us would come back later and put the beds down and bring in.
I think most DIY'ers need flexibility. Even if they have a routine there may be times when they need to do things differently. So for that reason I think this rule is stupid and unreasonable on a DIY yard.
 
I agree Tinypony. I don't understand all the fuss either. My horse is in the field- he doesn't mind when it gets mucked out. :- p Some rules are needed, others are just there for the sake of it IMO. OP I hope you can find a suitable solution.
 
WinkingWillow said:
Unfortunately without rulers chaos ensues! I have been on yards over the years that have been total crap fests riddled with vermin, muck heap out of control, the list goes on. Most of the yards in operation, are also people's homes, and therefore, they have a right to expect people to keep the place tidy surely? And before you shoot me down in flames and say that if they don't like the mess, they shouldn't run a yard from their home, how many yards do you think there would be if that where the case?! As a yard owner, sometimes I would just love it if people would stop and ask themselves what would they do, say or think if they were in yard owners shoes?
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I'm very old school when it comes to stable management. My own routine is strictly tailored for what's best for the horses not whats easiest for me, and includes horses attended to and yard shipshape by 9am. Horses left un disturbed in the night other than emergencies. So no dirty stables left all day, certainly no mess around (a messy yard is a dangerous yard) and no one faffing around at various times of the night.

I'm well aware not many think like this any more, and hobby owners don't see the point of rules that don't suit their lifestyle. Hence why my beautiful barn has plenty of empty stables that I don't need to use myself.
 
I guess anyone who doesn't actually earn money from their horses is a "hobby owner" and they are the main customer base for most livery yard owners. First rule of marketing is to meet the needs of customers... At a wild guess it's likely that as much as 90% of the posters here would be "hobby owners" in that, whatever activities they do, their horses are pets. The only income they get might be a bit of prize money in competitions, but they aren't professionals in that they earn a living from their horses. Certainly the majority of DIY liveries won't be professionals.

If someone has the luxury of being able to run a livery yard as a hobby and not need stables full then they can polish their concrete as much as they like.
:-)
 
I dont undserstand why people seem to assume that because you dont have time to muck out your stable in the morning your horse is neglected and your yard is a mess! What utter nonesense! my horse is turned out by 8am every morning when she is in at night, the stable is left for when i get back from work to ensure that i do a 100% job. becuase i take her in myself she comes on once her stable is ready and clean and the yard is never dirty! the yard is swept raked and even cleaned with a leaf blower every night! I CANNOT muck out in the morning i purely dont have the time and its not a luxury i have to be able to afford help all the time.

People are talking about completely different situations! a horse left in a dirty stable and not seen to until 11am is a completeyl differnt situation to a horse who is only in for a few hours a night and is turned out at 8am! Just because the stable isnt mucked out doesnt mean that the horse hasnt been cared for!
 
XxCoriexX said:
I dont undserstand why people seem to assume that because you dont have time to muck out your stable in the morning your horse is neglected and your yard is a mess! What utter nonesense! my horse is turned out by 8am every morning when she is in at night, the stable is left for when i get back from work to ensure that i do a 100% job. becuase i take her in myself she comes on once her stable is ready and clean and the yard is never dirty! the yard is swept raked and even cleaned with a leaf blower every night! I CANNOT muck out in the morning i purely dont have the time and its not a luxury i have to be able to afford help all the time.

People are talking about completely different situations! a horse left in a dirty stable and not seen to until 11am is a completeyl differnt situation to a horse who is only in for a few hours a night and is turned out at 8am! Just because the stable isnt mucked out doesnt mean that the horse hasnt been cared for!
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Totally agree with this ^
 
I don't even understand the "horses not seen to until 11am" that is often seen on various threads on here, with the owners accused of laziness and neglect. If the horse has been left with sufficient hay and water, with enough bedding that its not standing around in a mulch of poo and wee, then what difference does it make what time its turned out? I have been on many DIY yards where horses are fed breakfast and turned out at 10am as part of the package, and although the yards didn't have opening times owners were not allowed to turn out before 10am.

It annoys me even more to see that any horse who runs out of hay is apparently neglected, according to this forum. It's not good for them to run out at 8pm and have to go through the night with nothing. But if they have enough so it runs out aprox 3hrs before turnout and they wait with nothing to eat, it helps with weight control. Not all horses need ad lib hay.
 
i think it really depends what time you take your horses in! most livery yards areound my area have a rule that horses have to be in at around 3pm. you can understand that leaving a horse from 3pm to 11am the next day is a long time for them not to be looked at or checked over or given a feed! if like my horse they are not taken in till much later then it is fine! people just need to realise that not everyone has the same schedule as them and that the horses are probably in very different routines.
 
^^ this. I've always been on yards that horses go out early and come in when you like. IMO a DIY yard needs to allow for this degree of flexibility. If you're running a full livery yard then you can do what suits you. My horse gets turned out by staff for nine and gets bedded down about 6.30. Many are brought in later than this. I'm lucky to be in such a large yard though that horses are used to lots of comings and goings and don't panic about changes in routine.
 
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