Malibu
Well-Known Member
what the title says really, do some pain-killing and anti-inflammatory drugs for joint problems cause cartilage deterioration, is there scientific proof? is so what drugs?
do anti-inflammatory drugs for joints cause cartilage deterioration?
- Thread starter Malibu
- Start date
the watcher
Well-Known Member
Anti-inflammatory steroids certainly do cause joint deterioration in humans, don't know the facts on horses, sorry
Ferdinase514
Well-Known Member
Not as far as I know. Could be wrong though.
airedale
Well-Known Member
The stuff you give to your horse orally doesn't - but e.g. bute - may have other side-effects.
However the injection of Cortisone into the joint DOES cause cartilege degradation over time. It was fashionable in the horse world to do this injection years ago but seems to have died down as arthroscopy has become possible due to keyhole surgery.
The damage to cartilage caused by Cortisone also happens in humans and I tell everyone I know to refuse to have these injections, which are still promoted by GPs.
However the injection of Cortisone into the joint DOES cause cartilege degradation over time. It was fashionable in the horse world to do this injection years ago but seems to have died down as arthroscopy has become possible due to keyhole surgery.
The damage to cartilage caused by Cortisone also happens in humans and I tell everyone I know to refuse to have these injections, which are still promoted by GPs.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Cartilage damage has been seen in steroidal anti-inflams, typically a class of drug called glucocorticosteroids - you will probably hear to it referred as cortisone.
NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti inflams) won't cause cartilage deterioration, these include bute and danilon etc.
NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti inflams) won't cause cartilage deterioration, these include bute and danilon etc.
Ferdinase514
Well-Known Member
If the NSAIDs work in a similar way in horses as they do in humans, they can cause upper gastrointestinal bleeds.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
If the NSAIDs work in a similar way in horses as they do in humans, they can cause upper gastrointestinal bleeds.
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NSAIDs work in the same way, horses and humans, and yes they can cause GI blleds, but it is rare.
I would never hesitate to feed bute to my horse or take an aspirin myself.
If the NSAIDs work in a similar way in horses as they do in humans, they can cause upper gastrointestinal bleeds.
[/ QUOTE ]
NSAIDs work in the same way, horses and humans, and yes they can cause GI blleds, but it is rare.
I would never hesitate to feed bute to my horse or take an aspirin myself.
Ferdinase514
Well-Known Member
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I would never hesitate to feed bute to my horse or take an aspirin myself.
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Absolutely agree with you. If you need the medication you should take it.
I would never hesitate to feed bute to my horse or take an aspirin myself.
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Absolutely agree with you. If you need the medication you should take it.
airedale
Well-Known Member
but I WOULD NOT have any Cortisone injection done into a joint - as prescribed regularly to humans still - that causes damage.
as for NSAIDs - I live with my pain rather than take those. Far too many people 'reach for the tablets' instead of looking at why they are taking these tablets.
The tablets are treating the symptoms and not necessarily the cause. Agreed that when condition gets too painful you have to take proper medication, but the over the counter use of painkillers is unbelievable. My OH used to continually take Solpadeine for headaches (he said "nothing else works") and he was still getting the headaches.
He has now stopped taking anything (after years of me nagging) and now doesn't get any headaches (or very rarely).
the medication was self-perpetuating.
At least we are lucky that this scenario doesn't happen with horses - they have to be given the medication by their handlers and not just help themselves from the packet when they feel like it....!!
as for NSAIDs - I live with my pain rather than take those. Far too many people 'reach for the tablets' instead of looking at why they are taking these tablets.
The tablets are treating the symptoms and not necessarily the cause. Agreed that when condition gets too painful you have to take proper medication, but the over the counter use of painkillers is unbelievable. My OH used to continually take Solpadeine for headaches (he said "nothing else works") and he was still getting the headaches.
He has now stopped taking anything (after years of me nagging) and now doesn't get any headaches (or very rarely).
the medication was self-perpetuating.
At least we are lucky that this scenario doesn't happen with horses - they have to be given the medication by their handlers and not just help themselves from the packet when they feel like it....!!
vanessahook
Well-Known Member
I had a horse about 7 years ago that kept going lame in her hind legs, after months of investigation it was narrowed down to the hock joint.
I cant be 100% sure exactly what she had injected into the hock (bad memory!!), it was definitely a steroid of some sort.
She would come sound for about 6 months at a time before being lame again. We went through this cycle about 3 times before calling it a day so i would say the injection probably did more harm than good.
I cant be 100% sure exactly what she had injected into the hock (bad memory!!), it was definitely a steroid of some sort.
She would come sound for about 6 months at a time before being lame again. We went through this cycle about 3 times before calling it a day so i would say the injection probably did more harm than good.
airedale
Well-Known Member
sounds right for Cortisone.
The max cycle on that is typically 3 jabs
The max cycle on that is typically 3 jabs
malibu211211
Well-Known Member
Hi,
My boy has just had his third injection into his coffin joint
I'm scared now
The vet thinks his problem is caused by concussion as he always seems to go lame at this time of year
Mali xx
The vet thinks his problem is caused by concussion as he always seems to go lame at this time of year
Mali xx
airedale
Well-Known Member
don't let him have any more injections.
Whilst bute isn't perfect - does he stay sound on bute ? If so use that rather than cortisone.
I DO wish both vets and doctors would STOP using this substance. They do never tell people the side-effects of Cortisone.
(similarly people are often not told the risk of steroid injections to control things like urticaria (where anti-histamines basically don't work in horses as they do in humans) Steroid injections can and do cause laminitis, esp. in ponies. My pony had urticaria badly and vet said 'only thing I can do is a steroid injection' and started having a go at me for refusing to permit the injection !!! sorry - but I'd rather have a pony with spots and on bute than a pony with laminitis !!!!!)
Similarly - I'd rather use bute (and there are now newer alternatives available but I think they are more expensive - don't mean Devils claw) than have anything whatsoever to do with Cortisone.
I also use magnets on myself - for a shoulder that I've been told many times should have a cortisone injection - after having had enough nagging from GP nearly told him where to stick his cortisone injection. Anyway - the magnets work a treat. I have no pain whatsoever in my shoulder at all. I take no painkillers anyway, ever, but I no longer need shares in Ibuprofen gel!!!
try magnetic therapy.
(ducks for cover !!!)
Whilst bute isn't perfect - does he stay sound on bute ? If so use that rather than cortisone.
I DO wish both vets and doctors would STOP using this substance. They do never tell people the side-effects of Cortisone.
(similarly people are often not told the risk of steroid injections to control things like urticaria (where anti-histamines basically don't work in horses as they do in humans) Steroid injections can and do cause laminitis, esp. in ponies. My pony had urticaria badly and vet said 'only thing I can do is a steroid injection' and started having a go at me for refusing to permit the injection !!! sorry - but I'd rather have a pony with spots and on bute than a pony with laminitis !!!!!)
Similarly - I'd rather use bute (and there are now newer alternatives available but I think they are more expensive - don't mean Devils claw) than have anything whatsoever to do with Cortisone.
I also use magnets on myself - for a shoulder that I've been told many times should have a cortisone injection - after having had enough nagging from GP nearly told him where to stick his cortisone injection. Anyway - the magnets work a treat. I have no pain whatsoever in my shoulder at all. I take no painkillers anyway, ever, but I no longer need shares in Ibuprofen gel!!!
try magnetic therapy.
(ducks for cover !!!)
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Depending on what the horses diagnosis is it may also be worth investigating adequan
Beanyowner
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
try magnetic therapy.
(ducks for cover !!!)
[/ QUOTE ]
Careful now!! Don't want to start that one again!!!
try magnetic therapy.
(ducks for cover !!!)
[/ QUOTE ]
Careful now!! Don't want to start that one again!!!
airedale
Well-Known Member
that's the stuff - was trying to remember it's name
Malibu
Well-Known Member
can anyone elaborate on COLVASONE and FINADYNE, any side affects, etc
ihatework
Well-Known Member
Colvasone is essentially dexamethasone (corticosteroid) it is administered IV/IM
Finadyne is an oral NSAID
Most drugs have side effects.
Perhaps run an internet search on drugs you are interested in, look for their SPC's (summary of product characteristics).
Finadyne is an oral NSAID
Most drugs have side effects.
Perhaps run an internet search on drugs you are interested in, look for their SPC's (summary of product characteristics).
airedale
Well-Known Member
Finadyne is non-steroidal which should/would be a first choice before using anything that is steroidal.
Age is also a factor as most side-effects take a while to cause their own problems
so if horse is 5 then be very careful
if it is 20 then perhaps cortisone is not such a risk as the degeneration typically takes 5+ years to exhibit symptoms.
My problem with Cortisone in humans is that GPs are giving these injections to people in their 20s and 30s were 'sports injuries' - so their joints will start disintegrating in 10 years on from now - so joint replacements at 40 ?!?!?!?!?!
Age is also a factor as most side-effects take a while to cause their own problems
so if horse is 5 then be very careful
if it is 20 then perhaps cortisone is not such a risk as the degeneration typically takes 5+ years to exhibit symptoms.
My problem with Cortisone in humans is that GPs are giving these injections to people in their 20s and 30s were 'sports injuries' - so their joints will start disintegrating in 10 years on from now - so joint replacements at 40 ?!?!?!?!?!
lizlew
Member
My horse has had 3 injections into her fetlock joint, these injections were written on my vet bill as Hyalovet-20, that was about a year and a half ago now and she has been sound ( touch wood!) eversince. Am pleased she had these injections as it would have meant surgery. She was 6 years old then!!